Can you prune to good?

[beastmaster]

Well Company I work for got a complaint on a tree I pruned. Ended up refunding the peoples money. I was going to take a picture of it for my perfolio my self.
Japanese black pine, me and another trimmer removed a lot of dead wood. Reduced it all the way around about 4 ft, and accented the curvy multi trucks. We cut back to laterals to redirect the end growth that was growing straight up competing with the established leaders, and lightly thinned it so it was even all around. From the street it still looked full, but if you stood under it looking up, you could see the sky through a lacy canopy.
Lady said we were ripping her off and hadn't done anything to her tree. I showed her where my cuts were and explained how we try to hide them to make the tree look natural, She said it wasn't shaped even, I explained that one side had big multi leaders, and the other a bunch of small limbs and the way the tree was growing I couldn't take those big branches back with out really cutting some big ugly end cuts. I gave her a short lesson on what our objective is with a tree and how we natural prune. Thought I had her happy when we left, but her husband raised hell when he got home. It wasn't a big tree but two of use spent almost 6 hours in that tree fine pruning. An hour of dragging brush. She left when we got there and returned right before we left. We went the extra mile on that tree above what the boss said to do.
When the boss went back to talk to the people, and asked what he could do to make it right, and they told him to "cut it back more", he said no, and they called him a thief and other unsavory words. Not wanting these #######s to go around slandering the company he refunded their money.
Funny thing was they were friends of his Sister, and we did the tree for half price

 

[imagineero]

Tough deal. Fine pruning is like fine dining; the customer needs to have developed a palate for either to feel they got value for their money. I find it's very hard to sell. Most people are looking for something dramatic, not subtle.

The critical stage is at the quote. You get a lot of people who really want the tree completely gone, but for whatever reason they can't, so can you maybe just cut 80% of it down? Just take the whole top right off please! The other kind is where its a neighbours tree, and they don't want the leaves, so could you just side the whole thing up, cause leaves only fall directly down, right?

You can take the money or not, and worry yourself about the ethics or not. They're gonna get it hacked anyway. Just don't go serving up brie to a cheddar lover.

The rest of my trimming work is pretty straight forward. Property clearance, crown lifts, power line clearance. Not many people really want to pay for thinning, shaping or clearing. Some want to pay for deadwooding. Carry a high powered laser pointer with you and make sure no planes are flying overhead. Point out exactly what you will cut. make careful notes of it. Give them a written quote at the time of quoting, ad walk them through the written quote with the pointer so they understand what they're getting.

Either way, fine pruning is a hard sell. I charge out $200/hour, so your prune job sounds like at least $1000, but you probably billed out about $300 for it? A fine pruning job cab easily run $800+, on a tree that you could remove for about the same. Unless the client really values the tree, you're not going to satisfy many of those customers.

Shaun

 

[ducaticorse]

Tough deal. Fine pruning is like fine dining; the customer needs to have developed a palate for either to feel they got value for their money. I find it's very hard to sell. Most people are looking for something dramatic, not subtle.

The critical stage is at the quote. You get a lot of people who really want the tree completely gone, but for whatever reason they can't, so can you maybe just cut 80% of it down? Just take the whole top right off please! The other kind is where its a neighbours tree, and they don't want the leaves, so could you just side the whole thing up, cause leaves only fall directly down, right?

You can take the money or not, and worry yourself about the ethics or not. They're gonna get it hacked anyway. Just don't go serving up brie to a cheddar lover.

The rest of my trimming work is pretty straight forward. Property clearance, crown lifts, power line clearance. Not many people really want to pay for thinning, shaping or clearing. Some want to pay for deadwooding. Carry a high powered laser pointer with you and make sure no planes are flying overhead. Point out exactly what you will cut. make careful notes of it. Give them a written quote at the time of quoting, ad walk them through the written quote with the pointer so they understand what they're getting.

Either way, fine pruning is a hard sell. I charge out $200/hour, so your prune job sounds like at least $1000, but you probably billed out about $300 for it? A fine pruning job cab easily run $800+, on a tree that you could remove for about the same. Unless the client really values the tree, you're not going to satisfy many of those customers.

Shaun

Word.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Stick to your guns, Beast. I've always felt the best pruning jobs are when you can't even tell we were there, the tree just looks... right.

 

[Pelorus]

Sucks to do a really good job, and have an unappreciative client, or a client that just takes what you do for granted, as if you are a piece of meat, or a cheap commodity.
I think your professionalism and ethics shine through loud and clear, Wade.

 

[Zale]

Wasn't your fault. The client expectations should have been clearly understood by the salesman. You know you did a good job, F'em.

 

[beastmaster]

I do a lot of work for this company. All his jobs are gold plated and he's well known for his work. He doesn't advertise, all his equipment is top of the line. Its a status symbol in some areas to have him do your trees. He tells people straight up, I'm not going to be your lowest bid, then proceeds to sale the job. He's referred by a tree lawyer, several university professors, a locally famous consulting arborist firm. He's ruined me for production work, were told to take as long as we want but make them perfect. I was plucking needles off a 90' canary island pine today by hand to get just the right amount of filtered sunlight.
My point is were use to working for crazy rich people who love our work, this tree was set up through his sister, He told me," I only bid it 700.00,"
so don't spend a lot of time in it. The pine had such nice structure we went the extra mile on it anyway. The lady gave me the check and said she was satisfied, don't know what changed her mind.

 

[treeman75]

I think some people think they get more for their money when you take more than you should.

 

[Zale]

Her husband changed her mind.

 

[treeseer]

Written specs are the best defense; see ANSI A300. Taking pics before and after and the amount of brush removed also good to have.

husband had a bad day; look at the ripple effect. sux.

 

[mattfr12]

I think some people think they get more for their money when you take more than you should.

A lot of times when we did a lot of pruning we had to gut them to get paid. A lot of times it's not wether it's right or wrong it's what someone is willing to pay for.

 

[cjtreeclimber]

I'm not yet a certified arborist so excuse me and a bit more self educated enough to try to enlighten some of my customers about proper crown reduction. Huge ass willow oak trees - what a job in the Carolinas! a full size willow oak I gave a quote for dead wooding and crown reduction 900 bucks. the thing was a hundred foot at least. Who in the hell got the job. What am I doing wrong besides not being a sponge brain twit that can be a cert beeoch but out climb and cut all you faggots! was it a mexican? #### YOU!

 

[beastmaster]

I'm not yet a certified arborist so excuse me and a bit more self educated enough to try to enlighten some of my customers about proper crown reduction. Huge ass willow oak trees - what a job in the Carolinas! a full size willow oak I gave a quote for dead wooding and crown reduction 900 bucks. the thing was a hundred foot at least. Who in the hell got the job. What am I doing wrong besides not being a sponge brain twit that can be a cert beeoch but out climb and cut all you faggots! was it a mexican? #### YOU!

Let it out brother, let it out. It don't get no better.

 

[AirBorneMutha]

I'm not yet a certified arborist so excuse me and a bit more self educated enough to try to enlighten some of my customers about proper crown reduction. Huge ass willow oak trees - what a job in the Carolinas! a full size willow oak I gave a quote for dead wooding and crown reduction 900 bucks. the thing was a hundred foot at least. Who in the hell got the job. What am I doing wrong besides not being a sponge brain twit that can be a cert beeoch but out climb and cut all you faggots! was it a mexican? #### YOU!

Have a Mike's on me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oCDcTxFUkk&sns=em

 

[Tree&Stump]

Sometimes it's simply who's selling the job to the HO, and the price was not the bottom line in their decision.

 

[treeseer]

I'm not yet a certified arborist so excuse me and a bit more self educated enough to try to enlighten some of my customers about proper crown reduction. Huge ass willow oak trees - what a job in the Carolinas! a full size willow oak I gave a quote for dead wooding and crown reduction 900 bucks. the thing was a hundred foot at least. Who in the hell got the job. What am I doing wrong besides not being a sponge brain twit that can be a cert beeoch but out climb and cut all you faggots! was it a mexican? #### YOU!

No, it was somebody more civil. which aint sayin nothin. After 27 years of pruning willow oaks in nc, i seldom see any need for much crown reduction, so prune jobs are seldom that costly. Are you trying to enlighten them or endarken them? post a pic and make your point; cussin's for losers. so is spiking oaks to prune them. :msp_wink:

 

[old_soul]

I do a lot of work for this company. All his jobs are gold plated and he's well known for his work. He doesn't advertise, all his equipment is top of the line. Its a status symbol in some areas to have him do your trees. He tells people straight up, I'm not going to be your lowest bid, then proceeds to sale the job. He's referred by a tree lawyer, several university professors, a locally famous consulting arborist firm. He's ruined me for production work, were told to take as long as we want but make them perfect. I was plucking needles off a 90' canary island pine today by hand to get just the right amount of filtered sunlight.
My point is were use to working for crazy rich people who love our work, this tree was set up through his sister, He told me," I only bid it 700.00,"
so don't spend a lot of time in it. The pine had such nice structure we went the extra mile on it anyway. The lady gave me the check and said she was satisfied, don't know what changed her mind.

That sucks man. Sometimes ya gotta just shake your head and move on. Hopefully your boss is on board and understands your way of thinking

I know when I'm doing a thin I think in my mind what I would take out, then I think of what the customer wants to see taken out, and try to meet somewhere in the middle. Not because I really agree with them,
but because I don't want to have to go back up, or come back the next day and take more.

Lots of customers equate value with many visible cuts, its hard to educate opposite of that

 

[ropensaddle]

I'm not yet a certified arborist so excuse me and a bit more self educated enough to try to enlighten some of my customers about proper crown reduction. Huge ass willow oak trees - what a job in the Carolinas! a full size willow oak I gave a quote for dead wooding and crown reduction 900 bucks. the thing was a hundred foot at least. Who in the hell got the job. What am I doing wrong besides not being a sponge brain twit that can be a cert beeoch but out climb and cut all you faggots! was it a mexican? #### YOU!

Hahaha So what was the goal in reduction ? Mature trees I see deadwooding light shaping and light crown cleaning when needed but by the time the tree has reached potential what will be gained by reduction on a willow oak? Goals in fine pruning are a must and the tree likely just needed dead wood cut crown cleaning and crossing branches removed as mature trees less = more as they are like needing more resources for defense than response at this stage .
There are times very light reductions can alleviate problems of past poor trimming methods but they are few and these reductions will go unnoticed and will not fill the bed of a pickup truck.

 

[ropensaddle]

Personally I feel pruning is a hard sell here most want it by the ton and most don't understand its harder to do right than to hat rack. I tend to do lots of removals because they tend to pay best and I can keep my integrity. Occasionally some of my commercial accts want real pruning performed and I will do it usually by the hour!

 

[murphy4trees]

for some reason it seems that when I've tried to help people out, cut em a brake on the price, I get bit.. Its weird.. So I rarely do it.. thought most all of my prices are competitive..
I felt bad for a client that had a 150' tulip, struck by lightning and went through the gas line to start a fire in his kitchen. Thing was hanging way up there in splinters.. he had another price of $9,000.. I did it for 5,200 cause I felt bad for him... Guy beat me out of $1750.. so I have to sue him..