Chain saw with forced induction

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You missed my point entirely. You claimed that there was no safety issue with running air/fuel mixture through a turbo because it cannot burn until it is compressed. A backfire is proof that the mixture can burn at intake pressures.

there is no flame to light it..... unless there is a flame from the cylinder it won't light
under pressure it would light much easier... like a spark or high enough pressure
it won't burn because there isn't a flame
i have never had a saw back fire
i had one saw blow off the muffler....... but there wasn't any flame out the intake side of the motor
 
Another vid....

I have no idea where my last post went! I just posted this and can't find it!

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anyone ever ported one of these 2150's????
i could use some tips and guide lines.
should i build the pipe for the stock ports or build the pipe to the opened up ports???
 
When I was in high school my dad had a 64 Corvair Monza with a side-draft Carter bolted directly to the input of the turbo compressor housing. This was bone stock from the Chevrolet factory. Been done a million times.

The 2 stoke Detroit Diesels are piston ported (intake) wet sump engines, with four exhaust valves per cylinder. The "supercharger" is a scavenger pump, pushing fresh air in and spent exhaust out. The exhaust valves are open most of the time that the intake ports are exposed, limiting the amount of pressure that can build in the cylinders. However the superchargers can be overdriven with aftermarket gears to make more pressure than the exhast valves can evacuate, resulting in a positive pressure.

Off topic here but you wanna see a 7000+ ci 2 stroke?
100_4879.jpg


This is one of two superchargers.
100_4880.jpg

Its a GM EMD (Electromotive Division) 645 V12. 645ci per cylinder.
 
Post #85

i have ported 2 strokes and run pipes on them before
that was to easy

Yesterday 10:37 PMcwpoulan250a

anyone ever ported one of these 2150's????
i could use some tips and guide lines.
should i build the pipe for the stock ports or build the pipe to the opened up ports???

I had been assuming you had the porting and pipe bit down.

Your gains with a pipe on a stock saw will be marginal over just an opened up muffler. There are two main reasons, one being the flow restrictions through the carb, intake and transfers, the second being the short exhaust durration with late exhaust opening which makes for a weak exhaust pulse for the pipe effect.

2150's fine to play with and maybe do some learning, but it is the wrong saw to choose for many reasons. Do yourself a huge favor and get a 50cc project saw with closed transfers and vertical split case, stihl 026/260, husky 346, an older 50. Picked up used and with a few aftermarket parts no need to drop more than a couple hundred to end up with something that you can go race and actually stand a chance with.
 
Post #85



Yesterday 10:37 PMcwpoulan250a



I had been assuming you had the porting and pipe bit down.

Your gains with a pipe on a stock saw will be marginal over just an opened up muffler. There are two main reasons, one being the flow restrictions through the carb, intake and transfers, the second being the short exhaust durration with late exhaust opening which makes for a weak exhaust pulse for the pipe effect.

2150's fine to play with and maybe do some learning, but it is the wrong saw to choose for many reasons. Do yourself a huge favor and get a 50cc project saw with closed transfers and vertical split case, stihl 026/260, husky 346, an older 50. Picked up used and with a few aftermarket parts no need to drop more than a couple hundred to end up with something that you can go race and actually stand a chance with.

99% of the stuff i have ported and piped has been dirt bike engines. i know how to do it and i have done it on engines all the way up to a YZ490 and a CR500
i know a bigger engine helps but it is 10 times funnier to beat the big brand names with cheap and "worthless" saws.
if you had a 7900 and i had a 2150 and i beat you in a race i would smile a whole lot bigger than if i beat you with a stihl.
i just see it as a challenge to see how far i can push this little thing.
 
It's all good to try to push a Mild thingy to see what you get.

But in real terms you could do a ton of work on it and end up getting it handed to ya by a 50cc work saw. If you go out and race any decent 50cc saws that's exactly what will happen. Yes CCs are part of it but far more has to do with the design and limitations of the engine. One big problem is the unplated bore and chrome plated piston. I found that these pistons start to shead chrome flakes if really pushed, that happens and its all over in seconds. Also rings chew the heck out of the port edges as there is no plating on the bore to prevent it. Another issue is the general problems associated to a clam shell engine.

Saws at races are getting faster every year, trust me you don't need to put yourself at any disadvantage or handycap by running a Mildthing. Sure it would be great to come out 30 cc short with a 2150 and smoke someone in a 5 cube class but at best you only get ahead of the ones that were running junk or screwed up cutting. Its the old knife to a gunfight senario.

If you really know the details of porting to get gains esp bigger high performance bikes then you would without question know what to do with the ports on your saw, making big claims then asking those kind of questions kind of knocks the legs out from the credibility of your ambitions and can certainly turn people off from offering any help if that is what you were looking for.

I kind of hope I am getting under your skin a bit, I can remember it really ticked me off when people challenged the ideas I had as a teenager, but in the end it just made me more determined to prove them wrong... Catch was, most times it worked out they were not so wrong, and what I gained was the experience of learning be it more on the path of hard knocks.
 
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yup!!!!!!

So you think the only thing that affects boost pressure is the rpm's of the turbo? Think maybe diameter and other variables come into play too? Geesh .:monkey:

...and yes, it is a FACT that gas turbos generally operate at higher rpm's than diesel turbos. For car applications, diesel engine turbos run around 50k, gas around 100k.

It is also a FACT that a turbo light and small enough to be practical for a chainsaw would burn up the motor and or turbo in no time. As if hundreds of engineers at these companies never thought of this :deadhorse:
 
Brian, yeah I've spent some time trying to push a rope up a hill myself. After a while I learned to do a bit more research before commiting myself to a project.

Back in post #71 I mentioned tuning the intake with a piece of hose. That would seem like a worthy project that could yield useful information. The mod would also keep the weight down and retain the handling of the saw.

We've all seen various types of 'tuned' intakes, from long velocity stacks, boost bottles, variable manifold volumes, tunable air boxes and the like. The concept works, so how can we use the concept on a work saw?

I've tuned two-stroke intakes using just a length of clear plastic hose. The 'tuning' is simple (no math involved), you just keep clamping the hose at different lengths to change the resonance in the intake. When you find a spot that gives you the powerband you're looking for, then you cut the hose at that spot and plug it.

I have also made the hose length 'variable'. That is, I put a valve along the length of the hose to allow me to change from one length to another.

On a saw, I could envision two lengths - a shorter length to give high RPM power for limbing type work, then using the valve a longer length to create maximum torque for bucking big wood. An example would be where someone was cutting up a downed tree and started experiencing some bogging with the bar buried in the log, a simple twist of the valve and the saw would then be producing gobs more torque, albeit at a lower RPM.

A tuned intake could stuff another 10-15% into the crankcase. At a lower RPM the time/area of the transfer ports would be capable of moving that extra mixture into the cylinder.

The hose needs to have a fairly large inside diameter, perhaps close to the size of the carb venturi. On a smaller saw, the outside diameter of the hose may allow it to be convienently routed up inside the handle of the saw.

The inside of the hose does get 'wet' from the intake mixture. As long as the hose is elevated above the intake manifold, the hose can continuously drain into the intake and there is no problem. However, if the saw was laid over on its side for an extended backcut, the hose would develop a 'pooling' of fuel in the hose. If the saw was brought back to idle as it was being removed from the backcut, the saw would likely flood and the engine die. It wouldn't take too many such incidents before the operator would start giving the saw a couple of revs as it left the backcut.

I would have already done this on my saw, except it is a strato. The twin intakes essentially halves the amplitude of the wave in each tract. There are further complications on a strato such as one tract pushing the mixture out of the still open other tract and of a change in mixture strength if one tract begins flowing a larger volume. Those problems don't exist on a conventional two-stroke.

This project is likely do-able and does not require much outlay in resources. If successful, the modder would gain much fame and recognition from the chainsaw world, he would be carried aloft on the shoulders of tough men and a laurel wreath placed upon his head - his name would be spoken with reverence.

So, who's it going to be?
 
It's all good to try to push a Mild thingy to see what you get.

But in real terms you could do a ton of work on it and end up getting it handed to ya by a 50cc work saw. If you go out and race any decent 50cc saws that's exactly what will happen. Yes CCs are part of it but far more has to do with the design and limitations of the engine. One big problem is the unplated bore and chrome plated piston. I found that these pistons start to shead chrome flakes if really pushed, that happens and its all over in seconds. Also rings chew the heck out of the port edges as there is no plating on the bore to prevent it. Another issue is the general problems associated to a clam shell engine.

Saws at races are getting faster every year, trust me you don't need to put yourself at any disadvantage or handycap by running a Mildthing. Sure it would be great to come out 30 cc short with a 2150 and smoke someone in a 5 cube class but at best you only get ahead of the ones that were running junk or screwed up cutting. Its the old knife to a gunfight senario.

If you really know the details of porting to get gains esp bigger high performance bikes then you would without question know what to do with the ports on your saw, making big claims then asking those kind of questions kind of knocks the legs out from the credibility of your ambitions and can certainly turn people off from offering any help if that is what you were looking for.

I kind of hope I am getting under your skin a bit, I can remember it really ticked me off when people challenged the ideas I had as a teenager, but in the end it just made me more determined to prove them wrong... Catch was, most times it worked out they were not so wrong, and what I gained was the experience of learning be it more on the path of hard knocks.


none of the bikes i have worked on are clams and they all have split intakes.
some goes directly into the cylinder and some goes into the crank case.
the bikes i work on most have 5 transfer ports and they don't need modding most of the time. changing timing 1 or 2 degrees doesn't really count.
the exhaust and intake ports are the ones i have screwed with the most and i was asking if anyone has ever done it to a 2150 because i needed to know if i could widen the transfer ports or not. if i did (witch i didn't) widen the transfer ports i could have only gone 1 direction because of the ring and where the alignment pin is in the piston. so i opened up the exhaust and really opened up the intake. so far it seems to do really well. still tuning to have it not go lean with the blower.
 
So you think the only thing that affects boost pressure is the rpm's of the turbo? Think maybe diameter and other variables come into play too? Geesh .:monkey:

...and yes, it is a FACT that gas turbos generally operate at higher rpm's than diesel turbos. For car applications, diesel engine turbos run around 50k, gas around 100k.

It is also a FACT that a turbo light and small enough to be practical for a chainsaw would burn up the motor and or turbo in no time. As if hundreds of engineers at these companies never thought of this :deadhorse:
I would love to see proof. Like i said before the turbo off my truck is a popular bolt on for the honda/ricer crowd. They would probably wastegate it at 20psi no more. I can spin it up to 45psi no problem. Once again you cant tell me its spinning faster. Heck you can tell by the sound.
 
hello im new here on the forum. But if you put a valve on to the exhaust port you can overcharge the engine whit a supercharger direct from the crank.

I have made some drawings on a integrated design.

you have to do some major machining work but when its done you will sentiently be satisfied.


View attachment 169484

View attachment 169485


Dont know if the pictures work but greetings from Sweden.
 
hello im new here on the forum. But if you put a valve on to the exhaust port you can overcharge the engine whit a supercharger direct from the crank.

I have made some drawings on a integrated design.

you have to do some major machining work but when its done you will sentiently be satisfied.


View attachment 169484

View attachment 169485


Dont know if the pictures work but greetings from Sweden.


First off.. Welcome to AS!

Yes the pictures can be viewed. Thank you for your input!

Regards,

Dan
 
Yep welcome, it is an idea that has been proven to work, give or take it looks to be much what is done on a 2 stroke supercharged deisel.

Likely not much point though having the tuned pipe and exhaust valve as the pipe would be returning it's pulse exactly when the valve would need to be closed.

I would think it will be a challenge to keep the valve held together at 15,000 RPM. Those big diesel 2 strokes turned up maybe 3000 RPM, making a reciprocating valve set up work at 15,000 RPM is going to be fun. A rotory valve would be better in that respect, but heat on the exhaust side might make that approach chalenging too.
 
Any new videos?? Hope he hasn't blown out the seals, or melted her down. Give the kid another saw when he does so he can keep trying!
 
Yes, a rotary valve would be a better solution to the problem. But i just have shown tat with some will you can actually overcharge a two stroke engine. But as you say timberwolf it unnecessary to do. And the tuned pipe was men i was drawing on a turbo version. I was just giving another to the discussion.

Greetings from Sweden.
 
Any new videos?? Hope he hasn't blown out the seals, or melted her down. Give the kid another saw when he does so he can keep trying!

ya i got a few more videos but i can't find a way to upload them from my Ipod
manyhobbies was helping me before
i'll throw them up on youtube and put up the url on here
 
ok manyhobbies is going to have to help me out again
i can't even upload pictures to the site
oh well
i'll have the screaming skittle at the get together this weekend
see if i can blow it up there
anybody have a chainsaw dyno?? im curious now as to what kind of improvement i've made
 
A dyno though nice is not needed, just get a clean uniform diamiter log, test the saw stock with a new chain, video it and check the cut times, make your mods then retest and compare times. That will give a pretty good indication of HP in the wood which is after all what counts.

I pretty much video every saw I touch the porting on in stock form to keep track of gains. If you missed that step get ahold of another stock wildthing to compare your work to.
 
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