Chain sharpening, round or square?

[GrassGuerilla]

Greetings all. I almost hate to post this topic as its surely here already. I did some searching and reading already, trouble is there's as much bad info as good it seems.

I've been hand filing for some years. Out of necessity, I'm a self taught type. I can keep em pretty good with typical round semi chisel. Most of my cutting is in dirty wood from blow downs etc.

I'm interested in learning to up my game for those occasional clean wood felling and bucking gigs. I've heard of others converting round chisel to square. Seems like a good starting point (as I have plenty to work with). Of course, I'm likely to buy some fancy new chain to see what I've been missing;-)

I'd like to see some links to good info. Possibly some good videos. Preferably not a bunch of hacks and pikers that THINK they know what they're talking about. But rather some real "inside expertise" from loggers, arborist, or even "chain tweakers".

Mods, feel free to move this thread as you see fit.

 

[mdavlee]

Here's a video I did a year or so back. There's a few threads in the chainsaw section if you can find them.

 

[GrassGuerilla]

I'm thinking to do this properly, you need to hold the file in a manner so as to sharpen the leading edge of the top plate, and simultaneously maintain the square edge in the corner. Presumably the gullet will need occasional work with a round file too eh? I'm guessing that could be done on a similar schedule with raker adjustment?

Thanks for posting the vid. With all the google links down (hopefully not lost) its tough to find all the great chain info that I know is on AS. Any links to good chain sharpening info is appreciated.

 

[Trx250r180]

here is how i hand file square ,was one handed filing holding camera other hand ,but gives some ideas for angles

 

[Trx250r180]

i tried to make a square vid recently ,gives a general idea on how a square grinder works

 

[HuskStihl]

Last sharpening of round

 

[HuskStihl]

This is a comparison of a square grind chain done by a man known by many names in many lands, he is sometimes referred to as mike. The other is just my attempt at agressive round ground

 

[GrassGuerilla]

A lot of what I'm reading is leading me to believe that hand filing square is dang tough. I'm pretty good with a round file. Having spent a LOT of time learning to really put an edge on a knife, I realize the importance of precise angles. And that seems to be the name of the game on square chisel.

Question is, is it worth it? Does square chisel offer much over round chisel? Edit: I should say "in the hands of a hack", is learning to hand file square worthwhile? Is

 

[Gologit]

A lot of what I'm reading is leading me to believe that hand filing square is dang tough. I'm pretty good with a round file. Having spent a LOT of time learning to really put an edge on a knife, I realize the importance of precise angles. And that seems to be the name of the game on square chisel.

Question is, is it worth it? Does square chisel offer much over round chisel?

It's worth it. Mostly. If you're cutting clean wood square will usually out-cut a round filed chain. It doesn't out-cut by a lot but there's definitely an improvement.

But...if you're cutting dirty wood or wood with sand or mud on it the square will dull faster. The time you spend changing chains will eat up any time you've gained with running square.

Hand filing square chain isn't a science but it's very demanding. It takes awhile to catch on and every tooth has to be perfect or you lose the advantage of using square. Most of the guys that use square exclusively do their sharpening with a grinder. A good grinder.

Hand filing round is much easier and the angles are a lot more forgiving.

 

[Trx250r180]

Last sharpening of roundView attachment 319172

is that done with one of those little 12v dremils stihl sells with the stone bits the size of a file ? if so hows it cut ?be kind of handy if rock a chain in the woods to fix a chain

 

[mdavlee]

I have a grinder and still file a lot of square just cause I need to stay in practice. I've been trying to get semi chisel to cut with chisel chain and have gotten pretty close.

 

[HuskStihl]

It is with a plug in dremel. With practice (3years) I can do better than I could with a hand file. Never thought about cordless.

 

[GrassGuerilla]

While I'm throwing good chips with round chisel, there's still a lot of room left to improve my skills. And quite a bit of the wood I cut is dirty so I'm probably best sticking mostly to semi chisel. (Wont stop me from playing around a little).

My neighbor uses a dremel pretty effectively. But can't hand file to save his life. With just a couple strokes of a file after he dremels them, I can have em throwing some nice chips. Good enough for cutting wood for burning;-)

Is it my imagination, or do Stihl RSK seem to cut best with about half the cutter (or more) ground down? I'm guessing it comes down to its ability to clear chips? Dunno. It just seems like they cut best when close to end of their life (if done right).

 

[HuskStihl]

I find my chains work a little better after several sharpenings.
I had the pleasure of having 2 square ground chains from Mdavlee, whose sharpening has been praised by several big boy production guys who know what a chain should do. They were sharp, sharp, sharp, but did not "make my saw cut 10cc's better." I am in the minority, and am not any sort of saw pro even though I run my mouth like I am, but I am not buying a grinder or learning to file, as there's no way I'm making them cut as good as Mike's, and I didn't see enough of a difference between "accidentally cut u'r finger" sharp square, and "accidentally cut your finger" sharp round

 

[northmanlogging]

Square filing is a pain to learn but not impossible,

Square takes more maintenance then round file, you have to dress the gullets and the riders, as well as keep it razor sharp.

And like gologit said square don't like dirty wood at all, for falling, limbing and bucking for production its great, soon as they roll around on the landing or behind the skidder/tractor, or whatever, then round it is.

 

[4x4American]

heres what i understand: with square ground you need a "goofy" file and they are pretty spendy. you can order them from madsens or baileys. If you need to get it ground you're most likely gonna have to ship it to someone with a square grinder, you can't use a regular round grinder no matter what wheel you put on it. Out east square ground chains are very uncommon and almost of the dealers i've been to have no idea what square ground chain is. if you're cutting dirty wood, it's not worth it. if you wanna quicker chain try a full or semi skip round ground chisel chain.

here's a detailed write up on square ground from madsen's.
http://www.madsens1.com/bnc_filing_cb.htm

 

[homemade]

I've seen a vid on here with the same saw cutting through a log. Once with a square ground and once with a round ground. It was an 18 in round and don't remember what the species was but it was a noticeable difference
I often thought about getting a square grinder seeing how I don't have a grinder right now. I know enough ppl that I can use any time I want but I just want to be better/different.


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[HuskStihl]

Mdavlee posted videos with round, square, and semi before all the unpleasantness. If'n I'm recollectin' right, the semi won?

 

[mdavlee]

Mdavlee posted videos with round, square, and semi before all the unpleasantness. If'n I'm recollectin' right, the semi won?

No square won but not by a land slide. I'll try to dig the videos up for you guys.

 

[mdavlee]

Semi chisel full comp, square full comp, square full skip