Chainsaw Mill Setup? (I know, I know - not the first to ask, won't be the last)

[Yellowbeard]

I've been browsing through posts on this site for the past few days. I did some milling last week with a setup that belongs to a friend (Alaskan 36" on a Stihl MS460).

We had milled some stuff before and I really liked it. That hasn't changed, except perhaps to have made my love of this stronger.

Now, before you say "just get a band saw mill" or something to that end, you should know that this will really be a hobby for now only. I make furniture a bit and my wife is an architect, so I may end up using the lumber for a number of projects. Mainly I just hate to see a good tree go to waste, so I want to be able to go slab up windfalls and other trees. My family also has 135 acres with a number of species on it so I may cut some wood there on occasion.

Really I am a high school biology teacher by trade, so I will be able to go mill in summers and on weekends - I am looking for a setup that will let me do milling out in the woods, where the log is (I don't have a trailer as yet, nor lifting equipment - just an old Toyota 4X4 that will let me get my equipment close to the log). I guess I like milling so much because, while I sometimes see light bulbs go on in the heads of my students, actually telling when you're making progress is hard - not so with milling. I end up with a pile of lumber I can see RIGHT THERE and that feels good. Here's what we did last weekend (please don't laugh - I already have log envy but we all have to start somewhere).

View attachment 288667View attachment 288668View attachment 288669

For a regular saw, I am still using my dad's old WB 028. It says "made in West Germany" on the case, so that gives you an idea of it's age. I DON'T plan to try and use this saw for milling, so don't worry.

I was going to look at an 066, but having read through a lot of the forums, I think that I am going to try and pick up an 075/076 in decent shape and then fix anything necessary to fix (I built a car in high school, which was quite some time ago, but I think I can still remember enough to work on a saw, I hope - if not, I have some contacts the the local Stihl dealer who can probably help). While I would love to get a bigger saw/newer saw/whatever, as I mentioned, I do have a wife, and so I don't want to start TOO strong a case of CAD too quickly. I think I could try this out, use it 10-15 times per year and it wouldn't break the bank.

Power head chosen (though I am sure there will be comments about this choice, so please let me know!) I am planning on running a 42" bar (not sure what kind yet - ya'll seem to have a LOT of advice about bars) on a Panther II 48" mill for starters. I live in Arkansas, and so far I have only been cutting smaller red oaks (smaller meaning in the 15"-18" range). However, I want to be able to go larger and also want to be able to make crotch cuts if I feel like it.

Not sure about chain yet, but I am thinking about some Grandberg .325x.063 Ripping Chain. Haven't decided yet if I should just buy it on a roll or what. Advice would be helpful.

I would love to start out at around $600-750 or so (I was going to put that toward a new gun, but I decided that saw would probably be more practical at this point).

I guess what I want to know is: Does this sound like a reasonable setup to start with? I KNOW from having read a bunch of the forums that you will all have lots of comments, but that's what I want. I tend to try and do a lot of research before getting into something. Sometimes I can go ahead and just burn myself out on the research and not ever actually end up spending money (wish me luck .

Comments? Sorry to post this as a new thread, but I couldn't figure out a better place to put it, given the specific question.

Thanks in advance!

 

[BobL]

Another one got the bug, don't worry - it will pass - eventually :msp_biggrin:

A 42" bar to cut 15-18" logs is a tad overkill. I would get a shorter bar for milling those logs but if you can only afford one bar then a 42" is a fair start.

 

[Yellowbeard]

Another one got the bug, don't worry - it will pass - eventually :msp_biggrin:

A 42" bar to cut 15-18" logs is a tad overkill. I would get a shorter bar for milling those logs but if you can only afford one bar then a 42" is a fair start.

Well, of course, of course. Hoping to go after some bigger trees eventually, of course. I might start with a smaller bar. Like I said - would like to also be able to mill a fork (or crotch or Y or whatever is the proper term). Actually have one in mind from the tree in the pics above. The biggest problem with this size bar afaik is that it won't fit in the extended cab of the truck while on the saw, meaning I'll have to either put the saw in the bed or take everything apart.

So, other than the obvious (biting off more than I can chew, perhaps) does the setup above sound reasonable?

Thanks for replying!

 

[mad murdock]

Welcome to the wonderful world of wood! There is a guy on Eugene craigslist (Oregon) who is selling an 090 and a 076 with bars, chains, and a 60" Alaskan. For around the same money he is asking you can get a new Logosol M8 from baileys, on sale now for 1799. Or you can go way cheaper and get a new Timberjig, for 99.00 from baileys, on sale right now too. I am waiting for mi Timberjig to arrice(ordered it the other day). I have an Alaskan mill and have done a lot with it, and will continue to use it. I like the versatility of Logosol's Bigmill System. Start with the Timberjig and if you want you can upgrade from there. As far as saws go, the sky is the limit. I have a saw or 3.....well maybe I have over a dozen now, but who's counting look around for a good used power head, go 70cc at least anything smaller is just brutal punishment for you and the saw when milling with a CSM.

 

[mtngun]

Not sure about chain yet, but I am thinking about some Grandberg .325x.063 Ripping Chain. Haven't decided yet if I should just buy it on a roll or what.

The kerf of 325 is just as wide as the kerf of 3/8.

3 loops is all you need for a day's milling, so it's hard to justify buying a roll.

 

[Yellowbeard]

The kerf of 325 is just as wide as the kerf of 3/8.

3 loops is all you need for a day's milling, so it's hard to justify buying a roll.

Good point. I have found that changing to a sharp chain really cuts down on time getting through a log. How much good would just honing the chain between cuts do?

Thanks for the advice. Looking at the available bars for this saw, there's no way to go smaller than 3/8 chain anyway, is there? These are things I am still learning.

W.C.

 

[mad murdock]

Good point. I have found that changing to a sharp chain really cuts down on time getting through a log. How much good would just honing the chain between cuts do?

Thanks for the advice. Looking at the available bars for this saw, there's no way to go smaller than 3/8 chain anyway, is there? These are things I am still learning.

W.C.

This is just my experiene-others may have different results. I started milliing with 3/8 ripping chain (Baileys woodland pro-rebadged carlton chain). Was good chain. After about 5,000 bd feet, I worked through the first 2 loops I bought. I decided to switch to the low profile Stihl Picco chain, and would not turn back, it cuts faster, and cust nice. It is more expensive, but it also oils better, with the oil-o-matic feature of the drive and interconnect links. These have been my hands on observations, using both sizes of chain with the same saw (Husky 372XPW). If you go to this setup, you can run 3/8" .050 guide bar, and drive rim, just want to use a new drive rim with the picco chain, not one you used on a 3/8 chain. There is a slight difference, but not noticable.

 

[psgflier]

I started out with a 480 Husky, and filed my own chains to rip. The 480 wasn't big enough for more than a 24" bar ripping, so I got a 394. That worked real good for up to a 36" bar. This is using an Alaska mIII, so you lose about 4' plus on the cut. Filing a crosscut chain to a rip cut was a big improvement, and going to a ground rip chain an improvement over that. I used a 3/8" 50 gauge chain.
I carried a couple of bars and chains with me, used a longer bar to break down the log, then switched to a shorter one to mill the lumber. It makes a big difference in the length of chain your pulling, and what your not using in the cut is still loading down the saw.
I filed the chain with a file&joint at home to get the chain true and sharp, then touch up the teeth as needed when cutting. If I cut hemlock I can get 4 or 5 cuts between sharpening, Spruce a couple, and yellow cedar I have to sharpen every cut. Knocking the bark off in the cut line helps a lot. That's easy to do in spring cut logs, hard in winter wood.
I used the Alaska mill for years. It's a little lite duty, and I had to make a few repairs, but it worked good. One of the end pieces finally broke so I retired it.
I bought a Panther mill to replace the Alaska mill, and I've got to say I'm kind of underwhelmed with it. It's steel, which you might think is a good thing, but that makes it pretty heavy. On mine there are no marks on the posts for setting depth of cut, and the fit and finish is a little rough. It was less expensive than the Alaska mill, and tougher, but I got over 30 years use out of the Alaska mill, and cut a lot of wood.
Carl

 

[BobL]

Good point. I have found that changing to a sharp chain really cuts down on time getting through a log. How much good would just honing the chain between cuts do? .

If by honing you mean a quick cutter touch up then yes, especially if you are cutting hardwood. I get about 32 sq ft between touch ups on aussie hardwood so you should get double that with your softwoods.

If you mean "honing with a hone" then no. To sharpen the cutters you physically have to remove a little bit of chrome plating from the cutter edge to create a no glint edge - this gets the cutter as sharp as it will be - honing is waste of time on a CS.

 

[mtngun]

How much good would just honing the chain between cuts do?

I can swap a chain in far less time than it takes to file a chain, and files cannot duplicate the angles on a Malloff ripping chain. Plus it's a royal pain to file a chain while mounted on an Alaskan.

Since you have decided on a 075/076 then 3/8 chain, ground to the Malloff angles, is the logical choice. It does not matter whether it is 0.050" or 0.063", but 0.063" bars will be easier to find for that saw.

 

[Yellowbeard]

I can swap a chain in far less time than it takes to file a chain, and files cannot duplicate the angles on a Malloff ripping chain. Plus it's a royal pain to file a chain while mounted on an Alaskan.

Since you have decided on a 075/076 then 3/8 chain, ground to the Malloff angles, is the logical choice. It does not matter whether it is 0.050" or 0.063", but 0.063" bars will be easier to find for that saw.

So let me make sure I understand: I can use a 3/8 chain on either of these bar stocks, correct? I am looking at a 33" Carlton sprocket nose on ebay. Any opinions on that bar?

I am also now the proud owner of this: View attachment 289537

I got it for $286.60 with shipping on ebay. Stihl 075AV Chainsaw | eBay

Also, while I appreciate what you said about the Panther (I have used the Alaskan and the fact that it was made from aluminum and therefore light(er) was certainly something I saw as a plus. OTOH, I can buy twice the length of mill for half the price of an Alaskan, and, as I am not yet sure how far I will go in this obsession (er... hobby), that's pretty tempting. However, the lack of depth marks does bother me. Does anyone know if that's still the case with the Panthers?

I'm just stoked to possibly be going for around the $600 mark for mill, saw, bar and a couple of chains. Just cross your fingers for me that the saw runs strongly.

Any and all advice still welcome.

 

[Yellowbeard]

If by honing you mean a quick cutter touch up then yes, especially if you are cutting hardwood. I get about 32 sq ft between touch ups on aussie hardwood so you should get double that with your softwoods.

If you mean "honing with a hone" then no. To sharpen the cutters you physically have to remove a little bit of chrome plating from the cutter edge to create a no glint edge - this gets the cutter as sharp as it will be - honing is waste of time on a CS.

I should have used the word "filing" instead of honing. Sorry. Was thinking in kitchen knife terms. Frankly, I would rather run through several chains and then get them sharpened (I have no experience nor equipment for sharpening at this point). I was just wondering if running a quick file over them between runs would make much difference in the life of the chain and speed of cut. It was taking 20 minutes to get through 9.5 feet of 16" oak. Then I put on a brand new chain and it took 11. That's a heck of a difference. Was wondering where my best trade off between time spent sharpening/changing chains/in the kerf was. Guess I will have to work some of that out through experience.

 

[Yellowbeard]

I carried a couple of bars and chains with me, used a longer bar to break down the log, then switched to a shorter one to mill the lumber. It makes a big difference in the length of chain your pulling, and what your not using in the cut is still loading down the saw.
I filed the chain with a file&joint at home to get the chain true and sharp, then touch up the teeth as needed when cutting. If I cut hemlock I can get 4 or 5 cuts between sharpening, Spruce a couple, and yellow cedar I have to sharpen every cut. Knocking the bark off in the cut line helps a lot. That's easy to do in spring cut logs, hard in winter wood.

Carl

This part seems like really great advice that I should have thought of but wasn't. Pulling the chain costs power, which means the less chain, the less power wasted on pulling chain, therefore the more power used to transfer into the wood. It might mean I should go ahead and get a smaller bar to go along with whatever bigger bar I end up with.

I will likely try to run something like around a 2' bar, a 3' bar and a 4' bar eventually. I would like to have the option of making much larger cuts if the opportunity presents itself. OTOH, I haven't found anything yet that I couldn't do with my buddy's 30" bar.

The one thing I /would/ ask about this is this: I read elsewhere on this forum that the 075 has so much torque that you don't want to run it perpendicular to a small log, but rather angle it and use a longer bar so you can get as much chain into the wood at once as possible, as otherwise you are just wasting power. Can anyone comment on this? I also read that you want to run this saw a little bit fat so it will rev a bit slower. While I understand what fat and lean running are, I don't have a practical sense of how fat to run it. Can anyone give me a good standard to use for this?

Also, how do you knock the bark off? What do you use?

Thanks!

 

[excess650]

If the saw has enough torque to pull it, switch from a 7T rim to 8T rim. This is effectively a "gearing change" that increases chain speed at the expense of torque. Angling the mill in the cut allows it to cut more aggressively as its then not strictly cutting end grain. You could also get a little more aggressive with your raker height so as to take thicker cuts and retain a 7T. Running "fat" or "rich" will help to keep the saw cooler. The idea is to JUST "2 stroke" in the cut, and 4 stroke whenever the load is lessened. Torque is your friend when milling, so is the reason that larger displacement saws are recommended.

You can use an axe, bark spud, or "Log Wizard" to remove bark.

 

[Yellowbeard]

If the saw has enough torque to pull it, switch from a 7T rim to 8T rim. This is effectively a "gearing change" that increases chain speed at the expense of torque. Angling the mill in the cut allows it to cut more aggressively as its then not strictly cutting end grain. You could also get a little more aggressive with your raker height so as to take thicker cuts and retain a 7T. Running "fat" or "rich" will help to keep the saw cooler. The idea is to JUST "2 stroke" in the cut, and 4 stroke whenever the load is lessened. Torque is your friend when milling, so is the reason that larger displacement saws are recommended.

You can use an axe, bark spud, or "Log Wizard" to remove bark.

When you say "switch from a 7T rim to an 8T rim is that on the drive gear of the saw itself, I assume? Sorry, pretty newb on a lot of this, but I tend to learn quickly. Thanks in advance for patience. Will this pattern work with standard chain or do I need to make a change? And is it worth exchanging the torque for the speed in this case? Assuming the answer is "yes" or else you wouldn't have suggested it. Also, sorry, I know I saw this somewhere on the forum but I am not sure I understand what raker height is yet (tooth cutting angle? tooth height so the depth of cut is larger with each pass, thus using all that extra power?) Again, sorry to be such a dang amateur, and thanks for the help!

 

[scogar]

Also, while I appreciate what you said about the Panther (I have used the Alaskan and the fact that it was made from aluminum and therefore light(er) was certainly something I saw as a plus. OTOH, I can buy twice the length of mill for half the price of an Alaskan, and, as I am not yet sure how far I will go in this obsession (er... hobby), that's pretty tempting. However, the lack of depth marks does bother me. Does anyone know if that's still the case with the Panthers?

I recently bought a PantherPro II for my MS 460. I have cut a few hundred board feet of pine with it so far and I am pretty happy with it BUT since it is the only thing I have ever used i have no comparisons. My one real issue is that there is no controllable depth setting. It is a matter of moving the bars to specific positions using a tape measure and careful tightening of the rig - with the saw in place this takes a bit of manipulation and time to do. I have considered drilling a series of holes in the risers(?) through which I could insert a clevis pin so I could set common measurements repeatedly. I think this would be a vast improvement

Scott

PS - no there are not even depth guide measurements it all must be done with a tape measure

 

[john taliaferro]

I carry a few pine boards 1/2 " thick 2 - 3 - 4 " to get a quick set on mill height you can use multiple boards to get 3 1/2 " .

 

[psgflier]

There is a book about chainsaw milling that has some good information. I have a copy somewhere, but I wouldn't know where to look for it now. Some one can probably give you the name of it, but you can probably find it in the public library.
The best thing to do about taking care of your chain is to find someone that knows what they're doing and have them show you how how to sharpen it. There are some videos on u-tube, but they don't have real good close-ups or diagrams that you need if you are starting from scratch. There is also a lot of bs to sort out, which is also tough if you don't know what to look for.
Oregon used to have a pretty good booklet on chains. Bailys or Madsens might still have them. If you learn to file for crosscut properly, filing for ripping will come easier.
When you get used to it, filing the chain on the bar only take a couple of minutes. Unless you rock it, hit a nail, or something else to seriously screw it up, all you have to do is take a couple of light strokes of each tooth. No fooling with the rakers or anything else. Filing between cuts can make a lot of sense depending on the wood,saving wear and tear on the saw as well as gas and oil. I have to sharpen between every cut on yellow cedar, it has a lot of silica in the wood, and eats chain.
I was slabbing some dead white pine for a log cabin years ago, normally cuts like butter. This one log just wouldn't cut. I had to remove the saw from the cut about every 3 feet, smoke was in the air, and not just from me, the chain looked like hammered crap. I could not figure out what I was doing wrong. When the slab finally came off there was a piece of class imbedded in a check in the tree almost the full 16 feet of the log. The tree had grown around the glass and thee was no outward sign of it.
I have seen some modes to the mill attachment that make it easier to change the chain, but otherwise you have to take the mill off the bar to change a chain.
If you don't have another saw, your going to need a crosscut chain for the log work. It's really nice to have a second saw.
Don't invest too much into bars yet, when you decide you're really into milling, you'll want to invest in a Cannon bar.

 

[pastryguyhawaii]

I recently bought a PantherPro II for my MS 460. I have cut a few hundred board feet of pine with it so far and I am pretty happy with it BUT since it is the only thing I have ever used i have no comparisons. My one real issue is that there is no controllable depth setting. It is a matter of moving the bars to specific positions using a tape measure and careful tightening of the rig - with the saw in place this takes a bit of manipulation and time to do. I have considered drilling a series of holes in the risers(?) through which I could insert a clevis pin so I could set common measurements repeatedly. I think this would be a vast improvement

Scott

PS - no there are not even depth guide measurements it all must be done with a tape measure

I recently got a PantherPro also. I, too, have nothing to compare it to but really like it so far. I scored some lines on the metal but still you have to be careful when tightening it up. If it's an 1/8" off that's what you end up with. I like the idea of drilling the holes.

 

[psgflier]

I just did a search on saw chain sharpening instead of doing my taxes like I'm supposed to. I don't know which is more painfull, some ok stuf, some realy bad stuff.
For anyone looking for good advise on chain care, Stihl has a pretty good video on you-tube. Oregon has their brochure available online as a pdf, and Madsen's has some good information. Here is a link to Madsen's bar and chain guide site Guide Bar & Saw Chain Menu.