First attempt at milling. How can I do better?

[Joseph Acquisto]

First attempt at milling. Recently dropped white pine. Stihl 029 Super (56 cc or so) 20 inch bar and a 8TEN Ripping Chain( 20 Inch .063 .325). Older Granberg 777 small log mill.
Could not find a solid bar so when with my stock Stihl laminate bar.

I guess it cut easily enough, seemed the saw would not hold max revs when feeding with any perssure, so would back off and back up now and the. That probably caused most of the "wavies" I don't care for. The "high corner" at the start is, I guess, just beginners error.

Main complaint is what I think are way too prominent chain marks, "wavies". At the end of the cut, I found the chain had loosened up quite a bit, so maybe that made things worse?

 

[Joseph Acquisto]

More pics

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Not bad results, nothing like the scalloping I've seen from other newbies. That's a combination of loose chain, not going slow and steady (pulling back and starting again occasionally), and maybe some chain slop from either a worn bar rail groove or cheap 8Ten chain being made to poor tolerances (like .060-.061 rather than .063). Shouldn't require pressure, teeth should be sharp enough the saw about auto feeds on wood like that. If it's too aggressive and grabby still without pressure, you need to lightly pull back on the saw to keep it from bogging. From other people's experience milling w .325 .063 (on larger saws) it provides a very smooth cut but the effective kerf ends up being as much as 3/8" chain, so it's asking a bit much of your saw without going slow and patient. 3/8LP bar and chain is the only thing really for milling with that saw.

 

[grizz55chev]

More pics

Stopping and restarting is a major factor in the lines being created. Takes practice and steady pressure to get a good result.

 

[J D]

Were you wedging it as you went?

 

[buzz sawyer]

Are you letting the tip of the bar lead in the cut? Easier to cut at an angle instead of straight across. The 290 is a good saw but undersize for milling IMO.

 

[Joseph Acquisto]

Not bad results, nothing like the scalloping I've seen from other newbies. That's a combination of loose chain, not going slow and steady (pulling back and starting again occasionally), and maybe some chain slop from either a worn bar rail groove or cheap 8Ten chain being made to poor tolerances (like .060-.061 rather than .063). Shouldn't require pressure, teeth should be sharp enough the saw about auto feeds on wood like that. If it's too aggressive and grabby still without pressure, you need to lightly pull back on the saw to keep it from bogging. From other people's experience milling w .325 .063 (on larger saws) it provides a very smooth cut but the effective kerf ends up being as much as 3/8" chain, so it's asking a bit much of your saw without going slow and patient. 3/8LP bar and chain is the only thing really for milling with that saw.

I went with the 8ten as it had a few "good reviews" and seemed OK to get my feet dusty.

I've seen some mention of "lo pro" (low profile?) but am not really clear on what the deal is there. Seems like I need to change bar, drive sprocket as well for this saw?

 

[Joseph Acquisto]

Stopping and restarting is a major factor in the lines being created. Takes practice and steady pressure to get a good result.

At my age I'll probably wear out first.

 

[Joseph Acquisto]

Were you wedging it as you went?

Only wedged the starting end as it did not seem to be "sagging" as I went. When I went to move that first waste piece, seeing how heavy it was by itself was a surprise. I'll wedge much more next time. Not like I did not know I should have.

 

[Joseph Acquisto]

Are you letting the tip of the bar lead in the cut? Easier to cut at an angle instead of straight across. The 290 is a good saw but undersize for milling IMO.

I varied how I did it, trying to get a feel for what was "best". Tip lead did seem easier cutting. It's the bigger of the two saws I have (012 AV being the other) and do not want to spend a lot to see milling is something I can/want to do. I'm far from a young man any more.

If I had not found a great deal on the used G777 I probably would not have gotten this far. Did not want to deal with the clones on Amazon, etc.

 

[grizz55chev]

At my age I'll probably wear out first.

Motion is lotion, I'm a few months away from 70, and still work like a man half my age. Of course little slower, but with more determination. I have some 10' x 2 1/2" x 18" wide black oak slabs I cut 3 yrs ago ready to install as kitchen counter tops with a nice live edge. This yrs inside winter project. The tree they came from is still alive, it suffered some severe damage from a heavy snow in 2020. Making lemonade from lemons!

 

[Mad Professor]

I went with the 8ten as it had a few "good reviews" and seemed OK to get my feet dusty.

I've seen some mention of "lo pro" (low profile?) but am not really clear on what the deal is there. Seems like I need to change bar, drive sprocket as well for this saw?

Yes you need matching bar/sprockets for 3/8 lo pro. 3003 mount lo pro Stihl bars are hard to find.

It will cut faster, and very smooth with a good milling chain (Stihl 63PMX, harder to find)

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

I went with the 8ten as it had a few "good reviews" and seemed OK to get my feet dusty.

I've seen some mention of "lo pro" (low profile?) but am not really clear on what the deal is there. Seems like I need to change bar, drive sprocket as well for this saw?

It might be fine, cheap chains are a crapshoot. I use Archer which is cheap as dirt without issues. Most are made in the same factories. Have had newbies report bad scalloping w new bar and chain and aside from putting .050 chain in an .063 bar which some people have done (definitely not your issue) there's not much explanation for that beyond poor technique or tolerances being really far off so the chain isn't snug in the groove. Mostly when the equipment is all good, scalloping/"wavies" come from rocking the saw back and forth to not bog down or to speed up cutting, due to impatience. The small log mill has its own quirks, you have to be careful not to push too hard or the end of the bar will deflect and make uneven cuts.

I feel that lo pro is the only thing really suited for the small log mill because it cuts so effortlessly and the 20" bars are solid steel. I posted a link to a whole setup on one of your other posts. It's too much for most people to bother with because they don't trust ordering from England (even though shipping is free and it gets here in a week or less) and/or they don't want to switch out bar/chain/sprocket and want to work with what they have. Whole package of 20" GB bar, LP sprocket, and two chains is $219. I swore they were offering this with Stihl PMX chain before but now it's with their house brand Panther chains. I shied away from lo pro for years because of no availability in the US of bars or LP sprockets - beyond those for tiny saws - so it seemed impossible to put together a rig. But this UK outfit Chainsawbars has made it their bread and butter to offer everything needed in lo pro packages or individual components. I've seen tons of people want to mill with their existing 50-60cc saws and be told by milling veterans they have to step up to 90cc to mill. But lo pro requires so little power and cuts small logs so fast, 50-60cc saws can run it happily. Low profile means the height of the teeth above the bar is considerably less than on regular chain, reducing side to side oscillation considerably. This makes for a narrower effective kerf when cutting, thus easier on the saw. A lot of people have claimed that actual kerf width of chain isn't that different between 3/8, and 3/8LP, and .325, which is true, but the kerf they create when cutting is much different.

All that being said, I'd keep dialing things in with what you have to get better results and see how much more of this you want to do before considering a switch to a lo pro setup.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Yes you need matching bar/sprockets for 3/8 lo pro. 3003 mount lo pro Stihl bars are hard to find.

It will cut faster, and very smooth with a good milling chain (Stihl 63PMX, harder to find)

I thought they were offering this with PMX chain before, but seems they switched up to offering it with their house brand Panther chain. I've been happy with the 36" Panther I've run, it's lightyears better quality than the erratic tooth size of Woodland Pro I've seen in recent years. But of course would rather have PMX if I could. I've been making up loops of Archer 3/8LP from a 25' roll I bought for $75, will see what I think of it. Slightly larger teeth than the Panther. Chainsawbars is discontinuing their regular Panther chain in favor of Panther Plus (same chain, the Plus has consistency markings on the teeth) and offering the Panther 2 for 1, which puts 100' rolls at $259, same as Archer costs and probably a better chain. But I'd have to sell loops to justify ordering that much, I'm never going to go through 200' of lo pro myself. Is interesting to see that Chainsawbars followed up on my telling them about 6K lo pro sprockets out of Washington state, and every custom size up to 12 tooth, and started offering them though at super high prices (due to importing them to England). They go for about $40-50 here.

https://www.chainsawbars.co.uk/product/snhds20-50wr-kit-2050cm-gb-lo-pro-milling-bar-kit/​

This makes no sense, I found the link below for the kit with the PMX chains for $20 cheaper when it should cost more, don't know if it's out of date or not.

https://www.chainsawbars.co.uk/prod...e-links-read-and-check-description-carefully/

 

[Joseph Acquisto]

It might be fine, cheap chains are a crapshoot. I use Archer which is cheap as dirt without issues. Most are made in the same factories. Have had newbies report bad scalloping w new bar and chain and aside from putting .050 chain in an .063 bar which some people have done (definitely not your issue) there's not much explanation for that beyond poor technique or tolerances being really far off so the chain isn't snug in the groove. Mostly when the equipment is all good, scalloping/"wavies" come from rocking the saw back and forth to not bog down or to speed up cutting, due to impatience. The small log mill has its own quirks, you have to be careful not to push too hard or the end of the bar will deflect and make uneven cuts.

I feel that lo pro is the only thing really suited for the small log mill because it cuts so effortlessly and the 20" bars are solid steel. I posted a link to a whole setup on one of your other posts. It's too much for most people to bother with because they don't trust ordering from England (even though shipping is free and it gets here in a week or less) and/or they don't want to switch out bar/chain/sprocket and want to work with what they have. Whole package of 20" GB bar, LP sprocket, and two chains is $219. I swore they were offering this with Stihl PMX chain before but now it's with their house brand Panther chains. I shied away from lo pro for years because of no availability in the US of bars or LP sprockets - beyond those for tiny saws - so it seemed impossible to put together a rig. But this UK outfit Chainsawbars has made it their bread and butter to offer everything needed in lo pro packages or individual components. I've seen tons of people want to mill with their existing 50-60cc saws and be told by milling veterans they have to step up to 90cc to mill. But lo pro requires so little power and cuts small logs so fast, 50-60cc saws can run it happily. Low profile means the height of the teeth above the bar is considerably less than on regular chain, reducing side to side oscillation considerably. This makes for a narrower effective kerf when cutting, thus easier on the saw. A lot of people have claimed that actual kerf width of chain isn't that different between 3/8, and 3/8LP, and .325, which is true, but the kerf they create when cutting is much different.

All that being said, I'd keep dialing things in with what you have to get better results and see how much more of this you want to do before considering a switch to a lo pro setup.

I definitely was "rocking", trying to get a feel for things. Did not mention using a 2x10 as my "rail" instead of a ladder or other metal device as I had none on hand. I had shims under it to keep from warping it when screwing it down. Using wood probably made for more drag as I went along.

Also felt the bar might be flexing a bit. It's not a solid bar.

When the wind dies down I may give it another shot. Not sure how to fix that "high corner". Maybe a belt sander with 40-60 grit belt? Would giving the whole thing a quick sanding be a good idea?

I did see the link to the UK outfit. Think if I go that route I'd want to get a saw just for milling as I still need a general purpose saw.

 

[Lightning Performance]

I definitely was "rocking", trying to get a feel for things. Did not mention using a 2x10 as my "rail" instead of a ladder or other metal device as I had none on hand. I had shims under it to keep from warping it when screwing it down. Using wood probably made for more drag as I went along.

Also felt the bar might be flexing a bit. It's not a solid bar.

When the wind dies down I may give it another shot. Not sure how to fix that "high corner". Maybe a belt sander with 40-60 grit belt? Would giving the whole thing a quick sanding be a good idea?

I did see the link to the UK outfit. Think if I go that route I'd want to get a saw just for milling as I still need a general purpose saw.

Use a hatchet or chisel to remove the high corner. Hand saw will also work.
What files are you using?
If you keep milling without servicing the clutch bearing daily you will wish you did with that tiny bearing on 1127 series.

That saw is in need of an update to 70 plus cc.
Modify the oil pump would be best.
Enjoy

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

I definitely was "rocking", trying to get a feel for things. Did not mention using a 2x10 as my "rail" instead of a ladder or other metal device as I had none on hand. I had shims under it to keep from warping it when screwing it down. Using wood probably made for more drag as I went along.

Also felt the bar might be flexing a bit. It's not a solid bar.

When the wind dies down I may give it another shot. Not sure how to fix that "high corner". Maybe a belt sander with 40-60 grit belt? Would giving the whole thing a quick sanding be a good idea?

I did see the link to the UK outfit. Think if I go that route I'd want to get a saw just for milling as I still need a general purpose saw.

Yeah, it is a little bother switching sprockets back and forth, I have many saws so can dedicate some to lo pro and others to cross cutting. Doesn't take much to flex a laminate bar. On the other hand, the 20" lo pro bars though solid are thinner and they probably flex equally. Just like any average saw blade (circular saw, etc) you take on too deep a cut with too much resistance, the blade will flex. To run a stiff thick blade you need impractical amounts of power. Thinner kerf blade, less resistance, but flexes more. Have to find a happy compromise. That's why those G777 mills really are ideal for small 12" or less logs, anything past that and the chance of flexing increases a lot without the outer part of the bar supported like a normal Alaskan.

Like Lightning said, can take down the high corner with anything. Definitely wouldn't bother sanding the whole log. Whatever works for a guide rail is fine, but a cheap ladder is usually a lot more dependably straight than a 2x wood anything is.

Rocking was almost certainly the cause of your problems. I get away with it a bit with lo pro and still get super smooth cuts, but most other chain it guarantees some scalloping. Just slow straight and steady.

Btw, GB sells solid titanium 20" bars not only in lo pro but in .325 .063 as well as 3/8 .050. The 3/8 .050 is available from this place - https://stahlssupplies.com/SN-20-50PA_p_1123.html
but the .325 .063 is harder to find, mainly just on Ebay for around $100.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285140667012

 

[anynameyouwish]

Only wedged the starting end as it did not seem to be "sagging" as I went. When I went to move that first waste piece, seeing how heavy it was by itself was a surprise. I'll wedge much more next time. Not like I did not know I should have.

Instead of wedging, I recommend shimming. Get some shims which are exactly the size of your kerf and place one in every few feet. The problem with wedging is that it's hard to get them in exactly right. Too little and they can pop out. Too much and they raise the slab more than kerf height, which can raise the height of your mill. I think it's definitely possible to wedge such that these problems don't occur, but it's easier to just shim.