Cheap piston = BOOOOOM! (pics)

[Mad Professor]

I just ordered my first Golf Piston for an 011AV, my friend's saw. I warned him about the piston but he wanted to give it a shot. I'm not sure what the piston was that I took off of the saw, but the skirt had peeled- like a coating. The circlips had ears on them but the underside of the piston was coated with blowby so I couldn't read it. Might have been a Golf.

I'll check the new piston/ring close....

Thanks for the information.

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I have only used OEM/STHIL or Tecomec.. some caber rings too

NEVER ANY ISSUE! Ever, EVER, EVER,.......

Have seen bad things about most others, including Meteor, recently......

Want to flip the dice? One of six is the odds

 

[DSS]

Alright.....You guys tell me!! Here's the boxes these come in.....I got these in a parts lot from a closed out dealer, so i don't know the original souce in this case.....There are no #'s or names on the actual piston!!



I posted this whole thing to share a failure with a cheap piston and maybe educate people on what to watch for..... I can't believe the tangent this thread has gone on!!!

There is nothing to suppose or diagnose!!!......The locating pin pushed in and the ring floated, and caught a port...Period!!!

I can see why people get fed up and leave this forum.....Everything turns into a witch hunt!.....If you experts can tell me what brand these are, I'm listening!!

You pretty much hit the nail on the head Rob. That's why this place is only a shell of what it was. Nobody needs this ********.

 

[WHSH]

Yes, I do as well. I was refering to the cylinder and the plating. I always put caber rings in AF kits.

 

[griffonks]

I have only used OEM/STHIL or Tecomec.. some caber rings too

NEVER ANY ISSUE! Ever, EVER, EVER,.......

Have seen bad things about most others, including Meteor, recently......

Want to flip the dice? One of six is the odds

I know, Henry at Weedeaterman warned me too and I warned my friend that owns the saw. No warranty on this piston.

I told him that there was a new OEM piston kit on EBay for like $50 and shipping. Sihl wanted $94. I also told him that if it was anyone else's saw I would trash it.

I have had good luck with Meteor and Tecomec, bad luck with NWP- I didn't like the split rings and after a 1/4 tank of fuel was burned I tore the NWP MS390 engine down and found piston slap and transfer.

A couple months ago I ordered a Meteor 48mm piston and got a Golf instead. They told me to keep the Golf, so never having seen one I put it in a Husky 261 with a Caber ring. Then I ran it. 5 days later I pulled the Golf and put a Meteor in. Everything was fine.

So I believe that it is a matter of luck with Golf. If anyone wants that 48mm Golf piston they can have it for postage.....





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[WHSH]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head Rob. That's why this place is only a shell of what it was. Nobody needs this ********.

I could not agree more, and i hope that i did not contribute the "wich hunt". I have a love/hate relationship with is site. There are some great, wise, sincere, and helpful folks who participate, but there are just as many know-it-all's who find is amusing, and ego boosting to be be as snarky, negative, clan-ish, and act if there word is the only word, and this forum is there own kingdom. If you make and error, share a different experience, or just honeslty don't know all there is to know about saws, rest assured some one will come along that will take pleasure humiliating you on a public forum. Instead of being constructive and sharing, they surf the theads look for crappy things to say to someone. Its just chainsaws, yes fun, but its not saving lives or curing cancer.

 

[dozerdan]

Maybe I was a little hard on the man. I have a real problem with people giving out bad information.
I stopped posting on another forum because of that.

Later
Dan

 

[VI sawguy]

Alright.....You guys tell me!! Here's the boxes these come in.....I got these in a parts lot from a closed out dealer, so i don't know the original souce in this case.....There are no #'s or names on the actual piston!!

The piston in this picture is made by VEC in India

I was not disagreeing that you had a piston failure or what casued it what I was commenting on was the fact that just because it came in a white box from BC it doesn't mean it had to come from the same seller. As I said there are at least three different ebay sellers from BC. Some other brand of pistons that come in plain white boxes are NewWest, KIC, EMAS, Kadoris.

 

[watsonr]

Maybe I was a little hard on the man. I have a real problem with people giving out bad information.
I stopped posting on another forum because of that.
Later
Dan

A good set of rings can tolerate a little more than a crappy set can, such as poor beveling, irregular port shape, maybe a small blemish in the cylinder wall... I'm sure you know what I meant Dan... Are you saying that's bad information?

I will agree with that but that not close to what you said to start with. You said.

"I agree and the more I hear from guys about these kinds of things... a good set can make up for lower compression caused by excessive squish, poorly beveled intake/exhaust openings and even the shape itself."

I want to purchase some of these rings. Do you sell them? It sounds like it will save me a lot of time when I port a saw. I will no longer have to set the squash, bevel the ports or worry about the port shape. Please send me a price list on these rings.
Later
Dan

I apologize if the wording wasn't exactly right. Some of the aftermarket cylinders in today's market are less then stellar... a set of Caber rings in a lot of case is making there performance much better. A lot of guys don't have the knowledge you have for porting a cylinder, how the bevel should really be... I've sold thousands of Caber rings and the reports I hear are happy customers. Thomas1 summed it up pretty well, seemed he understood what I was trying to say.

Be glad to sell you some Dan. Shoot me an email, a PM or even call 757-754-0094 and we can discuss.

 

[jockeydeuce]

The piston in this picture is made by VEC in India

I was not disagreeing that you had a piston failure or what casued it what I was commenting on was the fact that just because it came in a white box from BC it doesn't mean it had to come from the same seller. As I said there are at least three different ebay sellers from BC. Some other brand of pistons that come in plain white boxes are NewWest, KIC, EMAS, Kadoris.

Thanks!...Interesting to know that there is a "brand" attached to these things.......I all fairness, I should note that other than this ring locating pin issue I had with the one I put in the 365, the quality of these overall is darn decent, and surpass almost every Episan I've ever used.....Even the circlips are nice (as in OEM type quality).. I am checking the pins close and still using them.....They all make great compression as well.

 

[Jacob J.]

I had the same thing happen to me with a white boxed piston kit bought from an Ebay seller from BC. It was deemed to be my fault because I obviously used my plastic ring compressor to drive the locating pin into the piston during the installation. I spent a ton of time taking pictures and describing the pin to the seller. At the end all I ended up with was a ruined OEM cylinder and a

We are talking about the exact same brand of piston, because I've bought from the same Ebay seller in the past, when the better pistons weren't an option, and I know this one that failed is the same as he sells.......

His story to you is complete BS!!.....If the fit on the locating pin is correct, there's no way you can drive it into the piston with a plastic ring compressor....The locating pins simply aren't a tight enough fit in some of these pistons.

I bought a white box 390XP piston from "Islandsawandturf" and it lasted all of 8 minutes. The ring locating pin drifted in, the ring spun around, and wiped out the whole top end. When I contacted the seller about it, he told me that I installed it wrong.

 

[jockeydeuce]

I bought a white box 390XP piston from "Islandsawandturf" and it lasted all of 8 minutes. The ring locating pin drifted in, the ring spun around, and wiped out the whole top end. When I contacted the seller about it, he told me that I installed it wrong.

Obviously I need to eat my words a little, as that's a different guy in BC that I have bought "White Box" pistons from in the past.....So who knows if they are exactly the same or not.....I got these last ones from another dealer closing out up north in my area, so I have no idea where they originally came from.

One thing for sure!.....This locating pin issue is the death of some of these. I never would have believed that a ring can spin around in a cylinder so fast.....I don't even think mine made 8 minutes, JJ....The end gap made it all the way to the Ex port before it caught too.

 

[Jacob J.]

Obviously I need to eat my words a little, as that's a different guy in BC that I have bought "White Box" pistons from in the past.....So who knows if they are exactly the same or not.....I got these last ones from another dealer closing out up north in my area, so I have no idea where they originally came from.

One thing for sure!.....This locating pin issue is the death of some of these. I never would have believed that a ring can spin around in a cylinder so fast.....I don't even think mine made 8 minutes, JJ....The end gap made it all the way to the Ex port before it caught too.

I've bought stuff from Barry (BarryDM/MB Chainsaw) and Islandsawandturf. Different sellers, same white box junk when it comes to pistons and cylinders. I've bought other stuff from both sellers and those transactions have been great. I think this is a case of these guys getting stuff from an aftermarket distributor, selling it, and not really knowing what's going out the door.

The ring locating pin IS the problem on the majority of the white box piston failures. It's not ring end gap, it's not a 1.2mm ring in a 1.5mm groove. It is the ring locating pin, plain and simple. I have more than 2k complete saw rebuilds under my belt and I've diagnosed every type of two-stroke engine failure imaginable. I still get fooled from time to time, but in this case- the ring locating pin does not have the precise friction fit that it needs to have.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

The ring locating pin IS the problem on the majority of the white box piston failures. It's not ring end gap, it's not a 1.2mm ring in a 1.5mm groove. It is the ring locating pin, plain and simple. I have more than 2k complete saw rebuilds under my belt and I've diagnosed every type of two-stroke engine failure imaginable. I still get fooled from time to time, but in this case- the ring locating pin does not have the precise friction fit that it needs to have.

Is it possible to check the locating pin before use, or does it loosen from the piston heating up? If it is loose out of the box, is there anyway to fix it, or are the cylinders just junk to begin with?

 

[Jacob J.]

Is it possible to check the locating pin before use, or does it loosen from the piston heating up? If it is loose out of the box, is there anyway to fix it, or are the cylinders just junk to begin with?

You can take a needle punch and tap the locating pin to look for movement, and also use a very fine pair of needle nose pliers to also look for movement. After my 390 piston failed, I took another new white box piston out from the same seller and was able to pull the ring locating pins out by hand with pliers. The only fix would be to drill the pin hole bigger, and use different material (like a drill bit) for a new pin. Then you would have to modify the ring ends to accommodate the new pin.

 

[jockeydeuce]

I've bought stuff from Barry (BarryDM/MB Chainsaw) and Islandsawandturf. Different sellers, same white box junk when it comes to pistons and cylinders. I've bought other stuff from both sellers and those transactions have been great. I think this is a case of these guys getting stuff from an aftermarket distributor, selling it, and not really knowing what's going out the door.

The ring locating pin IS the problem on the majority of the white box piston failures. It's not ring end gap, it's not a 1.2mm ring in a 1.5mm groove. It is the ring locating pin, plain and simple. I have more than 2k complete saw rebuilds under my belt and I've diagnosed every type of two-stroke engine failure imaginable. I still get fooled from time to time, but in this case- the ring locating pin does not have the precise friction fit that it needs to have.

You and I are 100% on the same page JJ......I have used some of these in the past with good success, but I'm definitey gun shy now. I have 5 or 6 left in this bunch of stuff, and can't find any others with the loose pins though.

 

[Jacob J.]

You and I are 100% on the same page JJ......I have used some of these in the past with good success, but I'm definitey gun shy now. I have 5 or 6 left in this bunch of stuff, and can't find any others with the loose pins though.

I'll never use them again. It was my own fault for trying cheap aftermarket junk. If it's an application where OEM is no longer available, I'll just adapt OEM from a different application. I'm doing three Jonsered 920/930s currently and they're all getting new Meteor MS-660 pistons.

 

[MS260 Fan]

I bought a white box 390XP piston from "Islandsawandturf" and it lasted all of 8 minutes. The ring locating pin drifted in, the ring spun around, and wiped out the whole top end. When I contacted the seller about it, he told me that I installed it wrong.

Thanks for that JJ. Now I don't feel so bad. Same seller and same explanation for me. I got 30 minutes out of mine. I obviously installed it wrong, but slightly less wrong than you. Wiping out the top end is one thing, but being told you're a dolt takes it to the next level.