Chimney Fire

[Shmudda]

Chimney fire.....

My house is a two story with a chimney the length of yours. I had one chimney fire in it, back in 2003, and it scared the hell out of me. When it started it sounded like a freight train going thru the house due to the draft and rush of air going up. Then came the poping sounds of the clay liners, which sounded like a 270 rifle going off in my living room. When I ran outside and looked up at the chimney it looked like a blow torch coming out the top. I ended up getting 2 ladders together up to it from the roof and slid a 1/4" thick stainless steel pan on the top to snuff it out. My ass was puckered! The fire companies came with a infrared camera and shot the house and chimney and it contained the fire.

Now, on to sweeping. I swept the thing out and got just a little less than a 55 gal barrel of ash! Needless to say this mess was self inflicted as I burnt for six years and never swept. I learned my lesson! Now I sweep every spring after the season.

I ended up installing a stainless steel flex liner since that fire. Since that liner install the stove performs better and uses less wood. I sweep every spring and get about a coffee can (1 lb) size of ash out of the thing. Again, I learned my lesson almost the hard way!

My suggestion is to get a certified chimney sweep to run a camera down your chimney, and get some pictures of the cracked tile liners, then talk to your insurance company. Most likely the insurance company will come thru with some funds to line the chimney.

Good luck, I have felt your pain!

Craig

 

[winland]

Well the masonry/chimney contractor came out on Saturday.
He inspected the fireplace, chimney and flue the best he could with out actually looking down the chimney.
As the firemen had initially found, there are several clay tiles that have been cracked and moved to allow
creosote to buildup behind them and cause the fire.
The actual fireplace and flue are very clean.

The contractor did notice several cracks in the upper half of the chimney block.
View attachment 261831

He wants to replace the entire upper half (about 20') of the chimney, new block and new clay tile liner.
Estimated cost to be about $8500.

Does this sound reasonable?

Calling the insurance company first thing Monday morning.

 

[Joe Homeowner]

Well the masonry/chimney contractor came out on Saturday.
He inspected the fireplace, chimney and flue the best he could with out actually looking down the chimney.
As the firemen had initially found, there are several clay tiles that have been cracked and moved to allow
creosote to buildup behind them and cause the fire.
The actual fireplace and flue are very clean.
The contractor did notice several cracks in the upper half of the chimney block.
View attachment 261831
He wants to replace the entire upper half (about 20') of the chimney, new block and new clay tile liner.

Estimated cost to be about $8500.

Does this sound reasonable? NO

Calling the insurance company first thing Monday morning.

Win:
You've got some advice here...listen to some with the usual grain of salt added.

Whatever anyone says, Heatilators are not heating devices. It's an old design that never did "heat", cost some $$$ to install, and never approached the low output of even inefficient wood stove inserts for real heat ( having central heating with a thermostat set at 65F don't count for wood heat ). Fireplaces were built around a Heatilator steel box and frame that supposed to push warm air out of a couple of tiny vents on the sides. They are creosote machines when used for heat AS FIREPLACES.

1.Get a real stand alone wood stove if you want to heat. You may have to extend a hearth.
2. You can SS line your chimney yourself for 1/4 of that estimate.
3. An installed SS liner attached to an EPA wood stove will satisfy most underwriters ( insurance company ) and inspectors.
4. Chimney fires are caused by unburnt gases condensing on cool flue walls--creosote. Prevented by safe, efficient burning with seasoned wood.

Good luck.

 

[allstihl]

since your chimney is on the inside, give some serious thought to getting rid of the masonery and using ss triple wall.

 

[winland]

Regardless of the current condition of the chimney flue,
can i slide a single wall, stainless steel flue down the 40' chimney and attach it to a
good fireplace insert?

Or can I repair the existing chimney/flue and then slide an insert into the fireplace and
exhaust it up the chimney without adding a 40' stainless steel flue?

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

I am not sure what "type" of heatilator it is. It was installed in the early 80's before I purchased the house.
I am burning year old Ash with some hackberry.
The glass doors are always open when there is a fire burning.

The heatilator is all metal inside. No brick of any type.
It has a blower on each side to exhaust warm air from the firebox to the room.

One of the problems with installing an insert is being able to clean the chimney.
My 1870 roof is VERY steap and the chimney extends at least 6' above the peak of the roof.
There is no easy way or practical way to access the top of the chimney without a 45' bucket truck.
With the fireplace, it can be cleaned from the inside up.
Installing an insert would make cleaning very difficult, Correct?

Sorry to hear about your chimney fire!

When you reload your fire, do you get any hint of moisture coming out of your wood? Perhaps you could find someone with a moisture meter and measure the moisture content of your wood.

I'm lucky enough to be able to burn dead Elm, Ash, and other dry wood. There isn't a hint of moisture when I reload. My chimney is from 1890 and unlined and in the center of the house so it keeps warm. I took a peek last year and it's clean with no build up.

Growing up we had 8' logs hauled in and we cut as we needed wood! We never had dry wood. There were a couple of chimney fires after I moved out. I'm surprised we didn't have more!

 

[haveawoody]

winland,

$8500 is about the price for a top of the line Outdoor wood burner installed with heat rad pipes inside the house.
$3000 for a real nice stand alone woodstove installed.

If you are spending that sort of money either of those options IMO are money much better spent.
If you loved the old fireplace get an electric fireplace for $200 and put it in the hole the fireplace was and fill the old chimney with insulation.

 

[Locust Cutter]

I'm not going to plug for Pacific Energy, but I'll give you a FWIW perspective. My father has a heatilator-style insert in his house. Burned yearly and often for 32 years. Every Spring, he, then we, now I jump on the roof and sweep the chimney. There's some dust but the average amount wouldn't fill a normal dust-pan. All he's ever burned is seasoned (normally anyway) Hedge, Hack, Locust, Oak, Black Walnut, Mulberry, Silver Maple, Ash and occasional Hemlock. The insert has glass doors and a similar blower setup and whenever burning, the doors are closed. The Chimney is old triple wall with a 12" I.D. It throws decent heat, but eats wood like a steam engine...

I've had my P.E. T-6 for almost 3 years now. For the same heat output, I use about 1/3-1/4 of my Father's insert. I have burned for two years straight, HEAVILY as I'm heating a poorly insulated 2-story farmhouse with about 2700sqft and propane is absurdly expensive and just had the chimney cleaned about a month ago. There was about enough dust to fill a little jelly jar. My stove is also a non-cat. Get a liner, get an EPA rated insert stove, (cat or not your choice) and laugh all the way to the bank!

 

[Joe Homeowner]

Regardless of the current condition of the chimney flue,
can i slide a single wall, stainless steel flue down the 40' chimney and attach it to a
good fireplace insert?

Or can I repair the existing chimney/flue and then slide an insert into the fireplace and
exhaust it up the chimney without adding a 40' stainless steel flue?

You're being a bad boy Win---not listening to others' experience. :msp_scared: Do the homework.

Yes, as said, you will "slide" ( not quite, but close ) a "single wall, SS flue down..." . Do some homework: you need to close the chimney cap to the new pipe you will insert , never "slide". And a new SS cap for the new SS pipe.

Masonry flues with or without linings are usually too large for wood stoves, or inserts ( same thing but inefficient). They cool down since they are uninsulated and have a large volume that remains unheated to draw well. Work well for romantic open fireplaces.

Now if you wish you may shell out $8500. to a mason to re-do that flue. You may also "slide" an insert into said flue without---
1. Closing off the smoke shelf.
2. Fabricating an adaptor to fit into the metal that shuts off the smoke shelf or flue.
3. And, making a metal closure for the large opening for your new insert.
4. Setting yourself up for another visit from your local FD.

Homework......You may PM for the bill. opcorn:

 

[brenndatomu]

1. Based on what you said and the pic, I don't think that the chimney needs to be completely (1/2) replaced.
2. Get another opinion/estimate.
3. You should be able to get a good insert and stainless flex liner PROPERLY installed for a lot less than repairing the chimney. Use your insurance $$$ for that instead, you'll wonder why you didn't do it years ago. Probably will want to mention your 40' height when shopping for a new burner, some won't like that much draft, which, BTW, will probably increase with a liner installed. Like Joe said, do your homework. Let us know what you do (with pics :msp_smile Good luck, glad everybody is OK!

 

[winland]

We have decided to install an insert along with a SS liner in the chimney.
The insurance company has OK'ed this since it will be about $3K cheaper.

Our evenings were previously spent in front of this cozy fire.

Now we huddle around Old Yeller.

It will take at least 3 weeks before we can get the insert installed.

 

[brenndatomu]

Cool! whatcha gonna get?

Btw, your pics didn't work.

 

[winland]

Well I tried to do it, but getting photos to appear is just not working for me.

View attachment 262532

View attachment 262534

I ordered a Lopi Declaration Plus.
It will fit into my zero clearance heatilator fireplace and it is local.
6" SS liner with insulation wrap.

Chuck

 

[brenndatomu]

Well I tried to do it, but getting photos to appear is just not working for me.

View attachment 262532

View attachment 262534

I ordered a Lopi Declaration Plus.
It will fit into my zero clearance heatilator fireplace and it is local.
6" SS liner with insulation wrap.

Chuck

Old yeller! :msp_laugh: Hope you have central heat!

 

[blades]

Chuck, you could use a 5" liner to cut the draft some if the six is to tight a fit. it would save having to bust out the red clay tiles if that is part of your quote.

 

[woodfarmer]

other observations...you should have 18" of emberpad in front of any wood burning appliance on the floor and 48" clearance to combustibles in front of the appliance, which by looking at your pictures you didn't have. Prefabricated fireplaces require either a stainlees steel chimney or liner in a brick flue chimney.

 

[winland]

The current clay tile looks to be 8 x 13, so we should have plenty of room to insert the 6" ss liner and wrap.

We have already rearranged the furniture in the room and planning on putting down a much larger hearth pad.

Thanks guys for the info.
Chuck

 

[Whitespider]

This doesn’t really apply here, because it’s a different type of chimney altogether… but it is interesting none-the-less.

Several years ago I was at friend’s house in a small neighboring township when a chimney fire broke out down the street. The chimney was pipe type that ran up the outside of the house… flames, sparks and heavy smoke shooting out the stack, siding melting off the side of the house. The owner had choked down the stove as much as possible and called the local rural FD (mostly volunteer).

So anyway, we’re trying to hose down the stack and house wall (two story house) with a garden hose, trying to keep it cool until the FD arrives. This old boy driving down the street pulls over, gets out, walks up and asks why we don’t just put the fire out… then laughs at us when we give him a blank stare. He asks if anyone has a jug of salt… and somebody ran in their house a got one. He takes his hat off and pours all the salt in it, walks up to the stack and knocks the cap off the bottom of the clean-out tee with a big pipe wrench he had in his truck… and shoves that hat full of salt up to the open bottom of the stack.

That stack sucked all that salt clean out’a his hat and the chimney fire went out like magic… I’ve never forgot that lesson (but I’ve never had a chance to try it again either). Just something to keep in mind; I keep 10 lbs of salt and a fire extinguisher down by the clean-out to my old brick chimney… ‘cause ya’ just ever know.

 

[trophyhunter]

I sold and installed stoves and chimney for some time back in the 80's and early 90's, there were always some people that you just knew were going to make the local paper with a chimney fire on account of their burning habits.

I'm talking about the guy that bragged about being able to load a blaze King full to the brim, choke it down to nothing and let it smolder for a full 24 hours. -Yea that guy, the one you dont want to live next to and have higher insurance rates to thank him for.

Anyways, those guys got a little early Christmas present from me when they bought a new stove (actually everyone got one) but only on account of "that guy".
I took old 50 cal surplus ammo cans with good seals and filled them with sandwich bags full of baking soda. In the the event of a fire all you had to do was grab the can, pop the lid and you had plenty of hand held fire extinguishers to throw in the stove.

Can't begin to tell you how many times someone would come in the shop and tell me how good that worked to put the chimney fire out, oblivious to the need to exercise better burning habits. -But alive and well none the less.

 

[Patrick62]

all is well that ends well

40 foot chimney is a monster. I bet it drafts like a hoover

SS liner is the way to go. you gonna love that Lopi.

putting out the fire in a hurry. I never heard the salt thing. bakin' soda is interesting. I have not tried this, but there is a thing that looks like a road flare (might be one) that is designed to put out a chimney fire. Consumes all the oxygen.

I will knock on wood, I have been pretty lucky thus far.