Chinese Stihl's? Something to think about...:)

[SawTroll]

We have a Mercedes plant down the road right here in Alabama. I've been there a few times. So clean you can eat off the floor. Most amazing logistics and automation. The manufacturing model is based off the Japanese of which had its roots in American ingenuity put in place during the rebuilding after WWII. I trust German manufacturing where ever it may be. They are a very stubborn folk and consumers will benefit.

I expect both Stihl, Husky and Makita/Dolmar to maintain the same standards of material and quality control in any factory they have in China as they do in their home country - or at least they are going to try to. If they succeed remain to be seen/proven.
Despite that, I don't expect any of them to make (or assamble) any "pro" models for Western markets there anytime soon, if ever. That likely would result in major losses of sales.

 

[SawTroll]

I've bought a few carburetors made in China and I can tell you that they worked very well, don't know anything about corruption though.

The Zama ones usually do - but based on the few exemples I have heard of, other Chinese carbs far too often don't. They "sort of" work, but not well.

 

[Chris-PA]

And what about Coal?? And Fracking for Natural Gas?

Perfect examples. Our "coal" is now brown lignite, which is more dirt than coal. You have to mine and ship all that non-burning junk, and deal with all the extra ash on the other end. Fracking oil & gas, and tar sands and shale oil - that's stiff has been known for decades, and the ways to get to it, but nobody would bother with that junk if there was anything better left. It costs to much to get. Same with drilling miles under Gulf of Mexico - who would spend the money to get that if they could still get the good stuff? When banks make bad loans to frackers then they don't make loans to manufacturers, and higher interest rates mean fewer customers for those factories. When investors fund Tesla or research on self driving cars they aren't funding railroads or canals or fixing bridges or doing maintenance on the grid.

 

[7sleeper]

... but you can't fix the fundamental cause.

Greed...

7

 

[weimedog]

Perfect examples. Our "coal" is now brown lignite, which is more dirt than coal. You have to mine and ship all that non-burning junk, and deal with all the extra ash on the other end. Fracking oil & gas, and tar sands and shale oil - that's stiff has been known for decades, and the ways to get to it, but nobody would bother with that junk if there was anything better left. It costs to much to get. Same with drilling miles under Gulf of Mexico - who would spend the money to get that if they could still get the good stuff? When banks make bad loans to frackers then they don't make loans to manufacturers, and higher interest rates mean fewer customers for those factories. When investors fund Tesla or research on self driving cars they aren't funding railroads or canals or fixing bridges or doing maintenance on the grid.

And when companies like Chesapeake pay land owners thousands of dollars for rights....then get banned, does that money get back into the economy in a productive way? As productive as if they were allowed to develop those places? We are all waiting for Fusion.. Lots of oil in places baned as well now....Europe has been using offshore oil from the North sea for decades....ALL of Europe has enjoyed Natural gas from Russia....so where is the "good stuff"? Gulf sate oil and Western Gas are still staples of eastern energy supplies. What about Alaskan and Canadian oil? Where does that go? Why? And there is always the Nuclear option.....from Chernobyl to Fukushima, the cost is beyond comprehension and is still rising. So whats the answer? Solar?? Wind? Have that going up everywhere as well. Be really cool to be "off the grid" and that would leave a little more from the grid for..what, manufacturing? Or supporting the metropolitan sprawl. What would be really cool is a wood fired steam electric generator to charge batteries that are supplemented with solar.....for farms. And what about the natural gas under our land? Can we use that to become off the grid? Not here, not with our states regulations...and it goes on and on. One of the things us "Easterners" haven't figured out is why we have such pressure for zoning and political interference for individual land owners. We have one deed that covers water, mineral, and surface rights. In Colorado, you only have surface rights. The water and mineral rights have been controlled by the political/financial class since the turn of the century...1900's to 20th century. Hummm...

 

[7sleeper]

What I always find extremely funny in these discussions, is when the big whinning starts about high taxes and welfare spending... I mean how infantile does one have to be to believe this. If the people would open their eyes and recognize that US taxes are a snailfart compared to what some other wealthy, economically successful countries have as tax burden.

7

 

[Chris-PA]

Greed...

7

Greed is always there, but it's just a symptom. Scammers and con men thrive when there are real problems, their presence isn't the root cause, it's a sure tell there is something wrong. Vultures don't eat the healthy.

 

[trboxman]

Greed...

7

Whose? The investors who want a return or society who want's the State to support them in unprecedented ways? Or both? I much more closely associate with the investor looking for a return than I do an individual looking for a Nanny State.

 

[Franny K]

Perfect examples. Our "coal" is now brown lignite, which is more dirt than coal. You have to mine and ship all that non-burning junk, and deal with all the extra ash on the other end. Fracking oil & gas, and tar sands and shale oil - that's stiff has been known for decades, and the ways to get to it, but nobody would bother with that junk if there was anything better left. It costs to much to get. Same with drilling miles under Gulf of Mexico - who would spend the money to get that if they could still get the good stuff? When banks make bad loans to frackers then they don't make loans to manufacturers, and higher interest rates mean fewer customers for those factories. When investors fund Tesla or research on self driving cars they aren't funding railroads or canals or fixing bridges or doing maintenance on the grid.

I do not usually disagree with you. Being from Pa where there is metallurgical grade coal, and anthracite that is shipped to Europe what is this brown lignite stuff that is from the upper Midwest isn't it.

The "frackers" seem harder to bankrupt than expected. Unfortunately some of those in the natural gas production have played with the sharks in the derivative and future markets. It is hard to know why entities really fail at times.

I will go along with the idea line it Telsa or it's founder is looking at space tourism as a business venture kind of hard to think there really is an energy problem.

 

[7sleeper]

Whose? The investors who want a return or society who want's the State to support them in unprecedented ways? Or both? I much more closely associate with the investor looking for a return than I do an individual looking for a Nanny State.

I completely agree, but I don't associate with the top managers constantly increasing their boni with rather mediocre performance. Selling company assets and throwing out employees to increase short term stock value or playing with company money roulette doesn't warrant in my eyes any special position or any special skill that justifies their income...
Just a personal point of view.

7

 

[Franny K]

We have one deed that covers water, mineral, and surface rights. In Colorado, you only have surface rights. The water and mineral rights have been controlled by the political/financial class since the turn of the century...1900's to 20th century. Hummm...

You live in one of the original 13 states. Your deeds probably go back to the King of England giving to the governor and then the governor giving to someone else before the idea of mineral rights. I think it is native or riparian the difference between surface and to the core of the earth. Can mineral rights be separated off in NY? If you have a couple hundred acres with mineral rights where you are, consider yourself fortunate, good chance eventually there will be activity in your area. It was just a two year hold wasn't it. It is going to be hard to resist the income from the horizontal drilling, at least on the land owner end it is taxed as income. I can not comment on water rights as have no experience with that.

 

[Chris-PA]

I will go along with the idea line it Telsa or it's founder is looking at space tourism as a business venture kind of hard to think there really is an energy problem.

He's not looking at it as a business venture because he's not a businessman. He's never made any money. Everything he does is to rake in investment money from fools, enabled by well-connected elites who get the fraud going with a big pile of tax money. He lives off the flow like a fat tick sucking on your blood.

 

[weimedog]

You live in one of the original 13 states. Your deeds probably go back to the King of England giving to the governor and then the governor giving to someone else before the idea of mineral rights. I think it is native or riparian the difference between surface and to the core of the earth. Can mineral rights be separated off in NY? If you have a couple hundred acres with mineral rights where you are, consider yourself fortunate, good chance eventually there will be activity in your area. It was just a two year hold wasn't it. It is going to be hard to resist the income from the horizontal drilling, at least on the land owner end it is taxed as income. I can not comment on water rights as have no experience with that.

Both mineral and water can. We had several years of "leases" on our mineral rights until NYS shut down the entire industry. There has been a non stop battle to throw both into the public arena and for the most part they have succeeded with energy. I still have a couple of water wells. In Colorado you can't even do that. Have to buy water from one of many water companies.. a "share" can be very expensive. In years past it wasn't unusual to see pump jacks on farmers land. Those days are long gone. Even hard to get wind turbines here. But....interestingly the county can.

 

[weimedog]

What I always find extremely funny in these discussions, is when the big whinning starts about high taxes and welfare spending... I mean how infantile does one have to be to believe this. If the people would open their eyes and recognize that US taxes are a snailfart compared to what some other wealthy, economically successful countries have as tax burden.

7

Of course the old saying "misery loves company"

We currently have some of the highest corporate taxes in the world. But that changes from political land scape to political land scape. And being over there I can't believe you would know or understand the transition we here have seen over the last fifty years relative to things like State Mandate's, a new concept for us; having changed the entire landscape for the average Joe; any more than I would understand the goings on there. I can only suspect you wouldn't understand the roots of this nation, really how could you as its not taught here so why would it be there? IF you do, I am impressed. More than half of those who live here don't. Here in NYS the group politic is trying really hard to be more like your country's system and "progress" away from this nations beginnings. I'll let others argue the merits, I'm just observing. People and companies are fleeing like they are faced with the plague. The general population out side of the well "informed" metropolitan area's are fighting tooth and nail to keep what they had...a loosing proposition in NYS, so many simply pack up and move to states where things are more favorable, an advantage we have over many places....BUT as the politics evolve, and folks run; there are less and less places left. Things I took for granted as a kid that would be passed on to my offspring are long gone. So why shouldn't we make our feelings known? Why shouldn't we both understand and observe the cost of some of these things, like the cost of a nanny state. Are we to do as so many others, just roll over and pretend there is no impact or there is nothing that can be done? I think the events of this past year may have invigorated the sense that with this political system maybe something can be done to preserve our past. Judging from how many folks like to be a part of our nation, either to harvest or to live here, we can't be all that bad... I for one feel pretty fortunate to be here.

BUT not to be a smart **s, how many chainsaws are produced where you are? How many companies made a world impact in that or any other major industry? The United States did. England did. Japan has, Germany certainly did, and Italy?? Ferrari's & Radio's! .... but as a people, we had to "escape" first though didn't we.... I also believe China will again be a major contributer in time. Over history they certainly have as a people. Conversely as we have "progressed" away from our roots, how much have we produced?? Over the last 30 years in particular. See a trend? Same with England years past, and suspect with Germany over the next few years. I would opine that there is a direct relationship to the rise in the current politic to the fall in production especially in innovations.. Russia? War and political events produced some of the most innovative aircraft & military hardware...ever. But what about the rest? But like I have said, there are no shortage of very smart and talented people...everywhere. BUT the system they live within can either help or hurt their ability to express their "individual" innovations and creativity.... On a grand scale, when you blend things like the Stihl corporation is doing....there will be an impact. What it will be? Only time will tell... So far I'm not complaining!

 

[Chris-PA]

Being from Pa where there is metallurgical grade coal, and anthracite that is shipped to Europe what is this brown lignite stuff that is from the upper Midwest isn't it.

Pennsylvania coal, oil and steel built a huge portion of the national infrastructure. Railroads too. There are some little bits left here and there, but for all practical purposes it was used up years ago. I drive through what was the Bethlehem Steel main works every day - part of it is an ugly casino now. Some of the blast furnaces are a backdrop for a pretty nice music venue now. The rest rots, except for one large forging facility. I can come in the other way past the giant Western Electric facility, most of it empty.

I remember all of that functioning when I was a kid.

 

[weimedog]

Pennsylvania coal, oil and steel built a huge portion of the national infrastructure. Railroads too. There are some little bits left here and there, but for all practical purposes it was used up years ago. I drive through what was the Bethlehem Steel main works every day - part of it is an ugly casino now. Some of the blast furnaces are a backdrop for a pretty nice music venue now. The rest rots, except for one large forging facility. I can come in the other way past the giant Western Electric facility, most of it empty.

I remember all of that functioning when I was a kid.

And I remember driving from West Germany to Berlin in the years after the wall came down......wow. Can't describe that but suspect your trip looks similar..

 

[Full Chisel]

I suspect you are confusing the Chinese made knock-offs (unlicensed copies) of Stihl models with the actual Stihl saws that at least are assembled there, possibly only for the "local" Asian market. Maybe the cheapest models will be at least assembled there for all markets?

At this point I don't know to which extent the parts are made there - and if they are, for which models.

Anyway, I don't think that this is something to worry about for North American or Western Europe users of "Pro" models, at this point.

I'm not specifically referring to chainsaws...as far as the US market is concerned I don't believe any of the saws are produced in China. But some of their entry level units are made in China and they are of very low quality. Then again, the BG50 and MS170 are made in Virginia Beach and they are crap too. So it's not just specific to units of Chinese origin. The same goes for other brands too...but IMO Stihl is pushing the envelope with government cheese at gouda prices.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Yep, for what they are the 170 and 180 are about 40 to 50 dollars overpriced. For the little stuff I'll keep my Poulan 25DA and my Super 2.

 

[spike60]

History shows that Europe has been through much much worse and landed back on top. Seeing as the new prez wants to keep building in the USA I can see more and more call for highly skilled labor and THAT will be coming from Europe courtesy of Angela and her liberal friends.

History shows............................that after a millennium of trying to conquer the world while attempting to exterminate each other along the way, Europeans entered the 20th century and discovered that they finally had the technology to fulfill their ambitions. Hence, it was up to us arrogant Americans to save you all from yourselves, not once, but three times. Both world wars and the cold war, required the US to do the heavy lifting so that you could "land on top".

The Brits figured it out and that's why they bailed on the EU. Most of the rest of Europe is simply floating down river to the next disaster. And we're not coming back a 4th time.

 

[trboxman]

We've tried so hard to be like them that we may just not be able to show up a 4th time no matter how desperate the situation...not to mention that if you give it another 40 years the Europeans will be a super minority in their own countries so why would we bother...