Climber/Owner making $4000 a year

[Tree&Stump]

Yes, that's what I said.

I know a landscaper that gives me tree jobs for commission. He underbid one this week by $600-$1100, and I told the HO that I had to add $600 to his price. Well the neighbor who was in the deal too called the landscaper, and he complained about the price raise. The first thing this morning the landscaper says to me is he's giving the job to another guy who hasn't even taken down trees that big in his life. Then he said I'm out of deal because I raised the price. 1 hour later the small time tree hack texts me he took the job at the original price, and he wants to know if I can climb for him. That means I bring my whole business over there and handle the job for him. Ordinarily I would gladly help him, but I told him that he's bothering me by doing what he did, and I wouldn't be climbing on that job. No landscaper and a hack are going to get me going while they are tearing down the value of the tree service profession.

I organized a bunch of info for the client, and I went over there again to educate the two HOs. I explained a few things without getting out all of my points because the friendly hack was already there working. He needs to work for an arborist first before he can learn what an arborist knows.

I told the HOs that my price is not any lower. It's higher if they decide they need a professional climbing arborist to handle things. As I was leaving I told that hack what a hack for working for nothing while the rest of us around here are trying to make a living on this profession. He said the job would have just been lost then, and I told him they have to save up to get what they need done the right way. Now because he took the job for such a low price, he's going to go out of business, and I have to suffer as well.

The point here is that the guy is doing 3-5 days of work for about $150-$200. He has a 1/4 ton pickup with camper shell on and a 10' x 2' boat trailer to haul 11-12 tons of brush (no chipper). In one move he brought the profession of climber/owner down to a $4000 yearly income.

What would you have done?

 

[treemandan]

Yes, that's what I said.

I know a landscaper that gives me tree jobs for commission. He underbid one this week by $600-$1100, and I told the HO that I had to add $600 to his price. Well the neighbor who was in the deal too called the landscaper, and he complained about the price raise. The first thing this morning the landscaper says to me is he's giving the job to another guy who hasn't even taken down trees that big in his life. Then he said I'm out of deal because I raised the price. 1 hour later the small time tree hack texts me he took the job at the original price, and he wants to know if I can climb for him. That means I bring my whole business over there and handle the job for him. Ordinarily I would gladly help him, but I told him that he's bothering me by doing what he did, and I wouldn't be climbing on that job. No landscaper and a hack are going to get me going while they are tearing down the value of the tree service profession.

I organized a bunch of info for the client, and I went over there again to educate the two HOs. I explained a few things without getting out all of my points because the friendly hack was already there working. He needs to work for an arborist first before he can learn what an arborist knows.

I told the HOs that my price is not any lower. It's higher if they decide they need a professional climbing arborist to handle things. As I was leaving I told that hack what a hack for working for nothing while the rest of us around here are trying to make a living on this profession. He said the job would have just been lost then, and I told him they have to save up to get what they need done the right way. Now because he took the job for such a low price, he's going to go out of business, and I have to suffer as well.

The point here is that the guy is doing 3-5 days of work for about $150-$200. He has a 1/4 ton pickup with camper shell on and a 10' x 2' boat trailer to haul 11-12 tons of brush (no chipper). In one move he brought the profession of climber/owner down to a $4000 yearly income.

What would you have done?

I am to old and tired to be trying to convert homeowners, play the " I got the job but will you do it" game or get invloved with landscraper's shennanigans but I would have done that job with a 5 x 4 jet ski trailer and an 1982 Volkswagon Cabriolet.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Yes, that's what I said.

I know a landscaper that gives me tree jobs for commission. He underbid one this week by $600-$1100, and I told the HO that I had to add $600 to his price. Well the neighbor who was in the deal too called the landscaper, and he complained about the price raise. The first thing this morning the landscaper says to me is he's giving the job to another guy who hasn't even taken down trees that big in his life. Then he said I'm out of deal because I raised the price. 1 hour later the small time tree hack texts me he took the job at the original price, and he wants to know if I can climb for him. That means I bring my whole business over there and handle the job for him. Ordinarily I would gladly help him, but I told him that he's bothering me by doing what he did, and I wouldn't be climbing on that job. No landscaper and a hack are going to get me going while they are tearing down the value of the tree service profession.

I organized a bunch of info for the client, and I went over there again to educate the two HOs. I explained a few things without getting out all of my points because the friendly hack was already there working. He needs to work for an arborist first before he can learn what an arborist knows.

I told the HOs that my price is not any lower. It's higher if they decide they need a professional climbing arborist to handle things. As I was leaving I told that hack what a hack for working for nothing while the rest of us around here are trying to make a living on this profession. He said the job would have just been lost then, and I told him they have to save up to get what they need done the right way. Now because he took the job for such a low price, he's going to go out of business, and I have to suffer as well.

The point here is that the guy is doing 3-5 days of work for about $150-$200. He has a 1/4 ton pickup with camper shell on and a 10' x 2' boat trailer to haul 11-12 tons of brush (no chipper). In one move he brought the profession of climber/owner down to a $4000 yearly income.

What would you have done?

Well, no offense, but first off I would have never talked money with the HO if I was a sub. I would have gobe back to the landscaper and had the money talk with him.

 

[ozzy42]

Sounds like you did the right thing IMHO.
I have good relationships with a few competitors and have ended up doing some of the work on a job where I was higher by a few bucks.When It's a few bucks ,no use crying over spilled milk,especially if I end up with a little of the action and vise versa.#### happens,machines go down ,parts get delayed.We all try to help one another when we can.But to help some hack whos sole purpose is to lowball every job they get a hold of.NO WAY.You underbid it ,YOU suffer thru trying to figure out how to get it done yourself.If I am going to work for nothing ,then that is what I 'll do,literally,WFN .I get more satisfaction from helping ,then some measly chump change. But this is reserved for family and friends,not hacks dragging me down to their level.

 

[Tree&Stump]

Well, no offense, but first off I would have never talked money with the HO if I was a sub. I would have gobe back to the landscaper and had the money talk with him.

I usually get better results after the fact than before the fact. Now that it's actually happening and not just hear say anymore, I'm going to have a discussion with him about this problem to put things right side up from now on. He'll either get on board, or he'll just keep sucking the life out of his new hack until he goes out of business.

 

[mckeetree]

Yes, that's what I said.

I know a landscaper that gives me tree jobs for commission. He underbid one this week by $600-$1100, and I told the HO that I had to add $600 to his price. Well the neighbor who was in the deal too called the landscaper, and he complained about the price raise. The first thing this morning the landscaper says to me is he's giving the job to another guy who hasn't even taken down trees that big in his life. Then he said I'm out of deal because I raised the price. 1 hour later the small time tree hack texts me he took the job at the original price, and he wants to know if I can climb for him. That means I bring my whole business over there and handle the job for him. Ordinarily I would gladly help him, but I told him that he's bothering me by doing what he did, and I wouldn't be climbing on that job. No landscaper and a hack are going to get me going while they are tearing down the value of the tree service profession.

I organized a bunch of info for the client, and I went over there again to educate the two HOs. I explained a few things without getting out all of my points because the friendly hack was already there working. He needs to work for an arborist first before he can learn what an arborist knows.

I told the HOs that my price is not any lower. It's higher if they decide they need a professional climbing arborist to handle things. As I was leaving I told that hack what a hack for working for nothing while the rest of us around here are trying to make a living on this profession. He said the job would have just been lost then, and I told him they have to save up to get what they need done the right way. Now because he took the job for such a low price, he's going to go out of business, and I have to suffer as well.

The point here is that the guy is doing 3-5 days of work for about $150-$200. He has a 1/4 ton pickup with camper shell on and a 10' x 2' boat trailer to haul 11-12 tons of brush (no chipper). In one move he brought the profession of climber/owner down to a $4000 yearly income.

What would you have done?

"Maybe close by"...huh. You are one of the new guys on here that I take everything they post with a grain of salt. So...whatever.

 

[Tree&Stump]

So the landscaper says that "you just have to get in there, and get out of there for the price, or they'll just go and get someone else to get it done for cheap." And "there's too many tree services."

 

[magictoad]

You should have just said to the landscaper, sorry i can not do it for the price.
Do you rely on the income you get from the landscaper if not you have nothing to loose, just walk away.

 

[ducaticorse]

I really dont understand why you would have agreed to do the work then think it was at all appropriate to change the agreed upon price. You are also acting in the capacity of a subcontractor, and you had zero business trying to renegotiate with the HO. So in short, yes, walking away from the job was the right thing to do, but you did it ass backwards. It is clear to me that both your contractor AND yourself have much to learn about this business. It's not all about just doing the actual cutting.

 

[treemandan]

One shouldn't just run out to do a job that one hasn't inspected and approved. Who is the hack now?

 

[imagineero]

Yes, that's what I said.
That means I bring my whole business over there and handle the job for him.

What is your whole business? From what I recall, you don't have a truck or chipper, or any staff, or a website. Are you licensed and insured/ISA or other certification? Is the business just you and a couple saws, a harness, a rope and some spurs?

Shaun

 

[chief116]

I believe that you are an idiot.

You arrived at a job you had never looked at for a price you didn't set.

You went over the the head of the guy giving you work and alienated him. Smooth move biting the hand that feeds you.

How hard would a phone call to the landscaper about it have possibly been? "hey mac, can't do it for that money.(insert $) is what I need to make for the day with my equipment. Come over and i'll point out how and why its going to take (X amount of time)"

That guy that ate the job and did the work just landed himself your work. Yay for you.

 

[Oak Savanna]

Why is a landscaper pricing tree work for you? Do you price lawns for him? I am an owner operator of a tree company and we do lots of work for local landscapers. They either give their customer my contact info and they deal with me direct, or they arrange to meet me at the job, go over it with me, I tell them what I need for it and they will tell the home owner then they can make a little off it too. 95% of the time they get their client to call me or they have even taken me over there and introduced me to the home owner and let me take it from there. Letting other people price tree work for you when they don't have a clue what it takes to do the job or what YOUR operating costs are is just stupid in my opinion. I would walk away from that whole s#it show if I were you and let someone else do it. If you can't get what you need out of it then why worry about it and lose money?! Id cross that one off the list and be onto the next one. Just my 2 cents.

 

[millbilly]

12 tons of brush you say? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm gotta make you wonder.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

12 tons of brush you say? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm gotta make you wonder.

That is a wee bit of brush now, isn't it?

 

[ducaticorse]

That is a wee bit of brush now, isn't it?

What, you don't haul 24000lbs of brush from your average $300 trim job?????

 

[TheJollyLogger]

This is Texas, we just burn it in the back 40

 

[flushcut]

What, you don't haul 24000lbs of brush from your average $300 trim job?????

Comon it's only 48 yards chipped. I think I get the much out of an apple tree :crazy1:
This topic has low ballin hackery written all over it. I work for a few scapers and there is no way in hell I let them bid it without me being there.

 

[Tree&Stump]

I really dont understand why you would have agreed to do the work then think it was at all appropriate to change the agreed upon price. You are also acting in the capacity of a subcontractor, and you had zero business trying to renegotiate with the HO. So in short, yes, walking away from the job was the right thing to do, but you did it ass backwards. It is clear to me that both your contractor AND yourself have much to learn about this business. It's not all about just doing the actual cutting.

Very true. At the same time I was thinking I'd fix things because obviously everyone else involved had no idea what was involved in the job.

 

[ducaticorse]

Very true. At the same time I was thinking I'd fix things because obviously everyone else involved had no idea what was involved in the job.

Im assuming you have a few years experience doing the climbing, but little to no years running an actual business. That is ok, and making decisions like the ones you did is called "learning the hard way". This works for some, but it would behoove you from here on out to ask advice of a mentor or maybe even here before you go put your foot in your mouth again, making yourself look like a total jack ass, (which you did in this case).