Considering a Stihl? Here's something to consider

[J.W Younger]

Every saw make, car make, etc etc has their share of bad dealers. Don't blame the brand for jerks at dealers. My local Stihl shop is great.

I didnt see anything to indicate the dealers were jerks. In all honesty you can't tell someone how to fix something over the phone and if you admit that its not being a jerk or rude. If that isnt good enough for the caller is ending the call being rude or a jerk?

 

[jalan]

Reply from OP

Thanks to all the posters and sorry my information was sketchy; also that my reply took awhile. I just checked email, and a note came saying “indiansprings” had replied. I was shocked to see all the posts. To all who gave me some benefit of doubt, I hope some of you are dealers. To those who accused me of wanting free repairs when I specifically said I was not looking for anything free, I hope you are not dealers. Can’t answer all the questions but here’s a couple.

When I first bought the saw, I watched the guy in the back (through the large window) slam it on the counter, pour gas on the saw, the bench and the floor and then stand there with the saw at full throttle for quite awhile. Then brought it out and seemed like I had ruined his day by my purchase. OK he had a bad day, but this did not instill confidence to bring the saw to him without question.

Actually, the reason made calls was to find a dealer that could speak calmly even if all they could say was “bring it in.” In order to help me discern someone reasonable, I thought that a single fair question might be “Roughly how long might a repair take?” I never asked “What’s wrong with the saw” or “How can I fix it?” One dealer said “I won’t even look at it for at least 5 – 6 weeks.” Well, maybe you guys who automatically see it the dealer’s way would have just dropped it off. I don’t think it was so bad to try a different dealer to see their time estimate.

The reason I called the company was I felt they would know best who the trustworthy dealers are so when I explained my lack of confidence in the place I bought the saw, I was given the name of an alternate dealer. The person I spoke to there was the rudest of the bunch. I called the company person back after my calls and said “Am I out of luck?” and his exact reply was “Looks like it.”

The friend in Oklahoma repairs saws every day. He told me how to take the carb out and disassemble it. Having replaced the diaphragms this past year on my Mantis tiller, and on a string trimmer, I felt I could do it. Being a new saw, everything looked in good shape except the thin diaphragm with 2 small flaps that I assume are some sort of valve (I can hear those critical posters ripping me that I don’t know the exact term). In any way, one of the flaps was not flat like the other but bent in the middle to a 45 degree angle, It seemed impossible to make a seal so I straightened it flat as best I could. I will say that
the material seemed much cheaper than the other 2 I had fixed earlier. Anyway, the saw started and has been running ever since.

Maybe that was the problem, maybe not. But my point in writing was that if any young person was getting the impression that if he went with any other brand than Stihl, he was making a mistake, I would like to say “Maybe it’s not like that.”

Sorry for the length of this and thanks again to all who posted a comment. Wish I could find such an active forum to help in the computer problems I sometimes face.

 

[bama]

Thanks to all the posters and sorry my information was sketchy; also that my reply took awhile. I just checked email, and a note came saying “indiansprings” had replied. I was shocked to see all the posts. To all who gave me some benefit of doubt, I hope some of you are dealers. To those who accused me of wanting free repairs when I specifically said I was not looking for anything free, I hope you are not dealers. Can’t answer all the questions but here’s a couple.

When I first bought the saw, I watched the guy in the back (through the large window) slam it on the counter, pour gas on the saw, the bench and the floor and then stand there with the saw at full throttle for quite awhile. Then brought it out and seemed like I had ruined his day by my purchase. OK he had a bad day, but this did not instill confidence to bring the saw to him without question.

Actually, the reason made calls was to find a dealer that could speak calmly even if all they could say was “bring it in.” In order to help me discern someone reasonable, I thought that a single fair question might be “Roughly how long might a repair take?” I never asked “What’s wrong with the saw” or “How can I fix it?” One dealer said “I won’t even look at it for at least 5 – 6 weeks.” Well, maybe you guys who automatically see it the dealer’s way would have just dropped it off. I don’t think it was so bad to try a different dealer to see their time estimate.

The reason I called the company was I felt they would know best who the trustworthy dealers are so when I explained my lack of confidence in the place I bought the saw, I was given the name of an alternate dealer. The person I spoke to there was the rudest of the bunch. I called the company person back after my calls and said “Am I out of luck?” and his exact reply was “Looks like it.”

The friend in Oklahoma repairs saws every day. He told me how to take the carb out and disassemble it. Having replaced the diaphragms this past year on my Mantis tiller, and on a string trimmer, I felt I could do it. Being a new saw, everything looked in good shape except the thin diaphragm with 2 small flaps that I assume are some sort of valve (I can hear those critical posters ripping me that I don’t know the exact term). In any way, one of the flaps was not flat like the other but bent in the middle to a 45 degree angle, It seemed impossible to make a seal so I straightened it flat as best I could. I will say that
the material seemed much cheaper than the other 2 I had fixed earlier. Anyway, the saw started and has been running ever since.

Maybe that was the problem, maybe not. But my point in writing was that if any young person was getting the impression that if he went with any other brand than Stihl, he was making a mistake, I would like to say “Maybe it’s not like that.”

Sorry for the length of this and thanks again to all who posted a comment. Wish I could find such an active forum to help in the computer problems I sometimes face.

What can never be measured in a written response is a person's attitude and tone. This seems like a good explanation to the questions that were asked and I can't say I would have done it any differently had I less knowledge of chainsaw repair. I do remember reading that you were not trying to get anything for free and your explanation for calling Stihl seems legitimate. My only suggestion, in hindsight, would be to have mentioned what you did in paragraphs 2-4 in your original post. It would have given clarity to those who needed it before they passed judgement.

It is easy to do as depending on any of our "moods" we are all able to do this with or without all the information in front of us. I have been guilty of this in the past and still feel bad about criticizing an eBay seller a few years back for sending the wrong parts when it wasn't their fault. In threads like this, it would be great to see more patience before final judgement as sometimes things are not as sinister as we would believe them to be. :smile2:

 

[THALL10326]

Thanks to all the posters and sorry my information was sketchy; also that my reply took awhile. I just checked email, and a note came saying “indiansprings” had replied. I was shocked to see all the posts. To all who gave me some benefit of doubt, I hope some of you are dealers. To those who accused me of wanting free repairs when I specifically said I was not looking for anything free, I hope you are not dealers. Can’t answer all the questions but here’s a couple.

When I first bought the saw, I watched the guy in the back (through the large window) slam it on the counter, pour gas on the saw, the bench and the floor and then stand there with the saw at full throttle for quite awhile. Then brought it out and seemed like I had ruined his day by my purchase. OK he had a bad day, but this did not instill confidence to bring the saw to him without question.

Actually, the reason made calls was to find a dealer that could speak calmly even if all they could say was “bring it in.” In order to help me discern someone reasonable, I thought that a single fair question might be “Roughly how long might a repair take?” I never asked “What’s wrong with the saw” or “How can I fix it?” One dealer said “I won’t even look at it for at least 5 – 6 weeks.” Well, maybe you guys who automatically see it the dealer’s way would have just dropped it off. I don’t think it was so bad to try a different dealer to see their time estimate.

The reason I called the company was I felt they would know best who the trustworthy dealers are so when I explained my lack of confidence in the place I bought the saw, I was given the name of an alternate dealer. The person I spoke to there was the rudest of the bunch. I called the company person back after my calls and said “Am I out of luck?” and his exact reply was “Looks like it.”

The friend in Oklahoma repairs saws every day. He told me how to take the carb out and disassemble it. Having replaced the diaphragms this past year on my Mantis tiller, and on a string trimmer, I felt I could do it. Being a new saw, everything looked in good shape except the thin diaphragm with 2 small flaps that I assume are some sort of valve (I can hear those critical posters ripping me that I don’t know the exact term). In any way, one of the flaps was not flat like the other but bent in the middle to a 45 degree angle, It seemed impossible to make a seal so I straightened it flat as best I could. I will say that
the material seemed much cheaper than the other 2 I had fixed earlier. Anyway, the saw started and has been running ever since.

Maybe that was the problem, maybe not. But my point in writing was that if any young person was getting the impression that if he went with any other brand than Stihl, he was making a mistake, I would like to say “Maybe it’s not like that.”

Sorry for the length of this and thanks again to all who posted a comment. Wish I could find such an active forum to help in the computer problems I sometimes face.

Good to see you back. Seems too it was a easy fix, good to see ya got it done on your own, good job. Far as the man saying 5-6 weeks wait means he's backed up, its usually first come first served. Thats not being rude, thats just life, take a number, sucks yes but unless your dripping blood the ER room is the sameway.

The second dealer Stihl referred you to was the rudest one you say but all ears are wanting to know what he said, don't leave out the best part, spill da beans.

Far as the man at Stihl saying it looks like it when you told him your outta luck that too your leaving out the good parts of what you told him, you must have told him what the second dealer said to you and thats the missing part, spill da beans.

 

[spacemule]

That and you just admitted that the saw was past the warranty period. How can one expect the company to replace or fix something at their cost for a non warranty item. Doesn't make much sense to me....

But don't mind my response. I'm just one of the guys who you'll say is wrong about his claims / perspective anyways.....

Hold it right there. He explicitly said in his first post he was not looking for free work and was willing to pay, but he was upset because he was blown off and treated rudely. So, your statement here does not in any way apply.

Now, here's my question to the op. How were you treated rudely? What exactly was said?

 

[spacemule]

And I see the op has been back.

Something you fellows bagging on him fail to realize--customer perception is everything. To blame the customer for being treated rudely is not good business nor smart.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

Hold it right there. He explicitly said in his first post he was not looking for free work and was willing to pay, but he was upset because he was blown off and treated rudely. So, your statement here does not in any way apply.

That may be so, but I easily believe that most people (in such a situation) are not going to freely admit to the fact that they wanted something for free. Seemed to me he was trynna get something for free regardless of what he spoke of in his first post. Can't trust every single thing people say in real life, let alone on the internet. I think you could agree with that. But hey I've been wrong before and since the OP finally spoke up, it looks like I was wrong and I have no reason to have any disbelief since he backed it up so well.

So yeah, you're right. My statement did not in any way apply after the OP finally posted.

 

[THALL10326]

And I see the op has been back.

Something you fellows bagging on him fail to realize--customer perception is everything. To blame the customer for being treated rudely is not good business nor smart.

Same applies to the customer at times as well Space. Here's an example.

Customer of mine, old guy, is sitting at the counter passing time and he and me are telling jokes. In comes a older gent with a weed wacker and he's not looking happy. I go whats wrong with that machine, he goes it won't start. I take it outside and give it a few pulls and know right away the ignition module is stuck in the advance mode, it would fire on every pull but nothing more, sure sign.

I bring it back in and tell the man it needs a new coil, no biggie, the coil is warranted even though the machine is past. I offer to replace it on the spot just to put a smile on his face, didn't happen. He goes I'll wait then. I'm putting the new coil on and the whole time he's bit-ching and moaning about the coil shouldn't have gone bad and on and on. I'm listening and thinking keep it up and you is gonna have to pay, he did indeed keep it up. I get it back together and go outside and it fires up and runs perfect, problem solved. Now he's all smiles but I'm not. I tell him the coil is warranted for 5 yrs but its only 2 years parts and labor, after two years its part only, you cover the labor. I said hold on a second. I run a bill for 20 bucks and hand him the ticket. I said see there is no coil on the bill, only labor. Then I said had you hushed up instead of groaning and complaining the whole time I was fixing your machine you wouldn't be paying this 20.00, this 20.00 is for me having to put up with your mouth. He growls, pays his bill and leaves.

Now the funny part. My other old guy that I was telling jokes with, he had watched the whole time. He goes Tom your a hard man and grins. Then he says had I been you I would had run that old complianing SOB outta here. He says he got just what he deserved and I couldn't have agreed more,LOL Then we went back to telling jokes, was a good morning,haha

Take note I was not rude to the man, he was rather rude to me and because of that he's gotsa payyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!

 

[RAMROD48]

Carburetor is part of the emissions system and is warrentable for 2 years...

Found this out a year or so ago when I replaced a customers fuel line on his 361 and had no idea when he bought it...

Charged him and off he went, next thing I know I am on the phone with Northeast Stihl asking me "Why I charged a customer to perform the repair on a 6 month old saw".

The guy had thought about it and instead of asking me he went directly to the company.

my answer was, "He didnt buy it here, I didnt have a purchase date and the fuel line was completely dry rotted/cracked and leaking fuel."

I then said "Wait a minute...commercial warrenty is 90 days"

the answer..."Emmisions is 2 years"

hmmmm

 

[THALL10326]

Carburetor is part of the emissions system and is warrentable for 2 years...

Found this out a year or so ago when I replaced a customers fuel line on his 361 and had no idea when he bought it...

Charged him and off he went, next thing I know I am on the phone with Northeast Stihl asking me "Why I charged a customer to perform the repair on a 6 month old saw".

The guy had thought about it and instead of asking me he went directly to the company.

my answer was, "He didnt buy it here, I didnt have a purchase date and the fuel was completely dry rotted/cracked and leaking fuel."

I then said "Wait a minute...commercial warrenty is 90 days"

the answer..."Emmisions is 2 years"

hmmmm

Good post, thats a real good post indeed. By law its two years due to it being a emission related part. Thing is I'm not so sure a fuel hose is a emission related part. The carb certainly is but then again so is the air filter, ignition module and muffler. I do know if a carb is full of green slime from old fuel left in it but its within the warranty frame its not covered. I'm gonna have to check into that, you bring up some great points in that post..

 

[jalan]

cont'd

Thanks to you bama for the suggestions of how I could have written better. Didn't want to draw it out at the first but you're right; it would have avoided some misunderstanding.

Someone mentioned the oil; since I got the saw I have been using fresh clean gas and "HP Ultra" oil sold to me by the dealer. With 2 “58 Willys Jeeps, gas doesn’t sit around and get stale.

As to who said what; it's hard to remember all the details. The northeast had had a big storm so it's understandable dealers could be backed up. But why go to a dealer who is frazzled and won’t give you the time of day when you might run into one who can have a civil conversation. Am I being unreasonable to try to find the best place to take the saw if I could find a place less backed up, and that treated me decently?

I asked him if anyone could take a look as perhaps I’m not doing something right and it’s different from the way my 026 starts. If he said Sorry, we’re too busy I might not have liked the answer, but that’s a civil response. But it was Absolutely not and there’s no way we can even look at your saw….. etc. in an irritated tone of voice. Maybe some would say that’s not rudeness, so I’d withdraw the word rather than quarrel about it.

The person at the company was not mean; he just didn’t seem to care. In fact one dealer number he gave me, the person was extremely polite and I thought Now we’re getting somewhere, until he told me they don’t repair chainsaws but he could give me the number of the place that does……. On the return call it was just the attitude that after I give you a couple numbers, I have nothing else to suggest. I honestly don’t think that if the saw had still been under warranty, things would have been much different. Perhaps that’s wrong.

I don’t want to create more problems as I’m glad to have the saw fixed.. Maybe it’s my turn to ask you guys a question. When your saw (or truck, or anything) needs repair and you check out a prospective shop and encounter a rude or angry person, is your line of reasoning He may be treating me like that, but I have faith he’ll respect my saw, treat it well and be honest with me about what it really needed? I admit to having trouble figuring that way.

 

[RAMROD48]

Good post, thats a real good post indeed. By law its two years due to it being a emission related part. Thing is I'm not so sure a fuel hose is a emission related part. The carb certainly is but then again so is the air filter, ignition module and muffler. I do know if a carb is full of green slime from old fuel left in it but its within the warranty frame its not covered. I'm gonna have to check into that, you bring up some great points in that post..

I said the same thing! I was told its a "FUEL" line and thus is emmisions.

It was the only thing wrong with the saw other that the customer requested a new bar and chain.

I gave the guy store credit, made the customer happy and he has since bought a couple trimmers for his lawn service. He even comented that he was suprised at the outcome.

 

[bama]

About 15 years ago, I had an battery operated weedeater that I got as a Christmas gift. Might have been a Toro, but I am not sure. Well, Christmas was in NW Minnesota and I lived in Hot Springs, SD at the time. Come spring and there is no charge in the battery, even though I followed the directions (I lived in town and only had a dozen trees to trim around). So, it says to bring it to a service center for warranty work. Happens to be the saw shop in Rapid City. Won't say the name of the shop. I had bought some dogs for my 920 with them, but otherwise, I did my business in Hot Springs (60 miles away).

I go to bring the weedeater in for warranty work and was treated very poorly and given grief for not buying the weedeater there. I was humiliated in front of other customers and then got embarassed at asking for the work. Even after I told them my situation, I was told that they did not like doing that kind of work. But, they did do it. I felt pretty PO'd at them for giving me grief for something I could not have changed.

So, it can happen where you bring in something for warranty work and it wasn't bought at the dealer. Normally, it won't be a chainsaw, unless someone moves in, but to catch grief for it is unfair. I never went back there. I am not saying it is right to buy a saw in a big box store and then take it to the local guy to do warranty work. But, sometimes things are not as easy as we would like them to be. Seemed like a well stocked shop, but I ended up just using the hardware store after that. I would have liked going there, but not after being humiliated. When I moved back to MN, I discovered AS and have never looked back!

 

[THALL10326]

Thanks to you bama for the suggestions of how I could have written better. Didn't want to draw it out at the first but you're right; it would have avoided some misunderstanding.

Someone mentioned the oil; since I got the saw I have been using fresh clean gas and "HP Ultra" oil sold to me by the dealer. With 2 “58 Willys Jeeps, gas doesn’t sit around and get stale.

As to who said what; it's hard to remember all the details. The northeast had had a big storm so it's understandable dealers could be backed up. But why go to a dealer who is frazzled and won’t give you the time of day when you might run into one who can have a civil conversation. Am I being unreasonable to try to find the best place to take the saw if I could find a place less backed up, and that treated me decently?

I asked him if anyone could take a look as perhaps I’m not doing something right and it’s different from the way my 026 starts. If he said Sorry, we’re too busy I might not have liked the answer, but that’s a civil response. But it was Absolutely not and there’s no way we can even look at your saw….. etc. in an irritated tone of voice. Maybe some would say that’s not rudeness, so I’d withdraw the word rather than quarrel about it.

The person at the company was not mean; he just didn’t seem to care. In fact one dealer number he gave me, the person was extremely polite and I thought Now we’re getting somewhere, until he told me they don’t repair chainsaws but he could give me the number of the place that does……. On the return call it was just the attitude that after I give you a couple numbers, I have nothing else to suggest. I honestly don’t think that if the saw had still been under warranty, things would have been much different. Perhaps that’s wrong.

I don’t want to create more problems as I’m glad to have the saw fixed.. Maybe it’s my turn to ask you guys a question. When your saw (or truck, or anything) needs repair and you check out a prospective shop and encounter a rude or angry person, is your line of reasoning He may be treating me like that, but I have faith he’ll respect my saw, treat it well and be honest with me about what it really needed? I admit to having trouble figuring that way.

Welp it sounds like the man was indeed rude to you by the way you describe his tone so you got a legit beef with him. The guy down at Stihl, not really much he can do. He can't call the dealer and say so your backed up, so what, look at the mans saw. His hands are tied. Stihl doesn't own any dealerships that I know of. They can't tell any dealer to drop what they are doing and jump into something else. If they did you think you was being rude to you haven't heard anything,LOLOL

Not withstanding there was a story on here a long while back where it took many many calls before the man got his saw repaired, it only took 180 days before he finally got it back. Just something to consider the brand was not Stihl.

Sorry ya had a bad experiance but such is life, not everything goes accordingly to how we would like it to. Am glad you gotter running though, good job!!!

 

[WidowMaker1]

My saws are my saws ,no else touches them or uses them ...from the beginning when purchasing, and finally owning a saw you should be willing to get to know your saws inside and out !!! And make that saw YOUR saw, it becomes a part of you. (being a professional operator is all about knowing your saws and repairing faulty stuff before it becomes a problem ) if things go wrong then you fix them yourself ( if your incapable then you shouldn't be operating them in the first place, in my opinion you should go and find a professional who knows his saws and is capable ) this way you don't go blaming or expecting others to fix your saws the the way you want, because you wrecked them with neglect or impatience in the first place ...after all it's your saw and your responsibility to maintain and repair ...I only buy parts and New saws from dealers that deserve my business, but they don't work on my saws ... if something goes wrong under warranty, I will diagnose and seek parts I need for no cost ...and fix my gear myself. now if you are a first time saw owner and want to look further into your saws, other than just making sawdust and cutting wood to burn ....just ask the many AS members for help and guidance, they won't bite ? So in your future of being a pro saw operator instead of a back yard hack, you can become more involved with your own saw and repair your own gear and better yourself ....cheers

 

[jalan]

Another question

Better ask this one while while I can. I never know when the diaphragm in the carb will develop problems again. Should I
replace it anyway - or replace the carb (they don't seem very expensive) or just use it and wait and see; maybe it won't
do it again? I guess my confidence level is reduced. Thanks for opinions

 

[Jacob J.]

I go to bring the weedeater in for warranty work and was treated very poorly and given grief for not buying the weedeater there. I was humiliated in front of other customers and then got embarassed at asking for the work. Even after I told them my situation, I was told that they did not like doing that kind of work. But, they did do it. I felt pretty PO'd at them for giving me grief for something I could not have changed.

So, it can happen where you bring in something for warranty work and it wasn't bought at the dealer. Normally, it won't be a chainsaw, unless someone moves in, but to catch grief for it is unfair. I never went back there. I am not saying it is right to buy a saw in a big box store and then take it to the local guy to do warranty work. But, sometimes things are not as easy as we would like them to be. Seemed like a well stocked shop, but I ended up just using the hardware store after that. I would have liked going there, but not after being humiliated. When I moved back to MN, I discovered AS and have never looked back!

That's surprising. We always welcomed warranty when I was at the dealership and I tell you why-
It's repair you're pretty much guaranteed you're going to get paid for. Our shop was in a tiny little town with a severely depressed economy. When Lowes and Home Depot came-a-knockin' for warranty service contracts, we jumped on it. We could always beat the book-recommended service times by 15-20% or more and they always paid up without question. In fact, doing warranty for Stihl and Husqvarna is the hardest to get reimbursed for. They constantly question repair times and drag their feet to pay. Stihl averaged around 7-8 weeks and Husqvarna averaged 6 weeks. Lowes and Home Depot almost always paid within 48 hours.
Compare this to the little old man or woman on a fixed income that brings their trimmer or mower in, and then after you fix it, it sits in the back of the shop for months. By the time they come in to get it, you have to rebuild the fuel system again.

Warranty work, chain grinds, and bar repairs were the three things we made the most money on. New unit sales is actually not a money-maker at all.

 

[Fish]

So you called around to 4 dealers during a major snowstorm, and wanted to talk about getting warranty on a saw that was over a year old,
and needed a carb rebuild, and were not happy with how they responded to their questions..........

So you wanted to tell America about how they should not buy a Stihl, "OR THINK ABOUT IT".

Just be forthcoming and clear.

Not being rude, just realistic.......

 

[WadePatton]

If you don't normally perform routing maintenance on your automobile and other small engines, i don't see the point in learning how to fix a carb on a saw now. Some folks just aren't cut out for fixing things, and there's nothing wrong with that.

If you're ready to try, expect to take 3 or 4 hours to do with that dealer charges 1/2 hour to do. There are lots of little quirks and kinks to getting a carb off and on with everything re-attached proper, and you might have to do it a couple times at first.

Otherwise do this: buy carb repair kit. rip it down trying to remember the locations and order of operations of each hickie. then try to separate the parts without ripping the gaskets-why? Because sooner or later you'll want to open one and be able to re-use gaskets and practice makes perfect. pull H/L screws, remove needle/pivot assembly spray or soak with carb/brake cleaner blow dry/through with compressed air. clean gasket surfaces. if you find more than a tad of corrosion, you may want to pitch the carb or learn how to go deeper with disassembly and cleaning.

with everything as clean and dry as you can get it, reassemble using kit components where you can. the jam it back on the machine, hook it all up. make sure you got it all hooked up right.

engage your starting ritual.

hth

WRT rudeness. NO WAY JOSE! There are too many fine and friendly folks who will take my dollar for similar, if not better services-while treating me like a person. There are very few things in life over which one has so much control as where he spends his dollars. A rude person may get my money once, but they'll not get it twice-even if it costs me more to shop elsewhere. I live this, I'll do without before I'll pay *&^%%^&'s.

Those who are rude to their customers don't want customers. If they are rude to me, I leave and am thankful for the opportunity to seek out and find folks of better disposition. This is also why some shops have a backlog with other shops in the same area don't. Just like food, the best it at the front of the _long_ line my friend.

 

[homelitejim]

Damn that sucks, out here in the PNW I can call any dealer within 600 miles of my house and get friendly professional help. I am helping my friend get his 075 up and running, Stihl quit building this saw in the late 70's early 80's, every dealer I have called has been great in helping me locate parts and answer questions I may have, I have even had the busiest saw builder-seller in the PNW drop what he is doing to help out me and my friend including finding obsolete parts that have not been available since the 70's. What strikes me is that none of these dealers have sold me a saw or are even working on it and are helping me even though I might just buy a few parts. I thank all you hard working dealers who take time out of your day to answer my questions and actually help me find parts, and not just Stihl dealers, but also Husky and Echo dealers. Merry Christmas to you and yours and I hope next year will be a busy one for you.