"Consulting" a legal risk?

[maxburton]

I was recently advised to remove "consultation" from my business cards because my liability insurance does not cover legal action related to consultation. That is, if I were to visit a customer, prune a tree, and say "it's safe now" and it falls over and wrecks a car, my liability insurance covers it. But if I charge someone just to say the tree is safe, put "consultation" on the bill, and the same thing happens, I'm not covered.


Not that I would ever say a tree was definitely safe, but still. Any thoughts?

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Who gave the advice? If it was the insurance agent who handles your policy, I'd say take his advice.


It it was your brother in law, I'd seek legal advice.

 

[hobby climber]

You can never make a tree safe! You can only make it safer! IMO. Mother nature has its own set of rules. HC

 

[tophopper]

The only safe tree is a stump

 

[sawn_penn]

Speak to your insurer and find out what they cover.

Often consultancy concerns are around the scale of the work covered. Imagine you "consult" to the city government and say:

"put a face cut and half a back cut into EVERY tree in the city - that way when a storm comes you know which way the trees will fall."

If the city were to take your advice, then the insurer may end up with a lot more claims then they bargained on.

 

[maxburton]

This advice came from Howard Eyre, a former professor of mine and a current consulting arborist. He goes out to consult on high-value trees and is an expert witness. He also has recently been doing a lot of speaking engagements. I took his advice.

 

[Treeman14]

This advice came from Howard Eyre, a former professor of mine and a current consulting arborist. He goes out to consult on high-value trees and is an expert witness. He also has recently been doing a lot of speaking engagements. I took his advice.

Perhaps he is just trying to "cut down" his competition.

 

[Mike Barcaskey]

I was recently advised to remove "consultation" from my business cards because my liability insurance does not cover legal action related to consultation. That is, if I were to visit a customer, prune a tree, and say "it's safe now" and it falls over and wrecks a car, my liability insurance covers it. But if I charge someone just to say the tree is safe, put "consultation" on the bill, and the same thing happens, I'm not covered.


Not that I would ever say a tree was definitely safe, but still. Any thoughts?

my insurance agent told me that liability insurance covers problems that occur WHILE I am performing the work (hit the house, car, ect.)
It does not cover problems that arise AFTER I do the work (tree dies from improper pruning, tree falls over, limb falls off, bad consultation/advice).

For that type of coverage you need "Errors and Omissions" insurance

TreeSeer, what do you CYA with when giving consultaion/advice?

 

[antigrassguy]

Just as arborists are able to take a test to be certified, you dont have to but I think anyone who has taken the time to has learned something new, consulting has a certification thru ASCA. It is NOT an easy thing to get registered. There is a reason for this. Im positive that a few here can attest to just how difficult it is. If I went out with my pick up truck with a ladder and a electric chain saw, I could call myself an "arborist". Anyone can call themselves a "consulting arborist" but you are really hanging your butt out there as it usually requires something in writing, which lawyers love. With more people learning they can sue someone for damn near anything, the new American retirement plan, the more we must protect ourselves, as arborists, from this. This is all in my own opinion. Be safe out there.

 

[treeseer]

Any time you offer an opinion, especially in writing, you are at risk. E&O is good insurance to have if you sell opinions; costs me ~$600/yr.

I don't see Howard's name in the ASCA directory, he's not an RCA. He's basically right, but yes he is eliminating you from competing as well.

A stump is not safe; it is a tripping hazard.

You don't need to stop giving advice; just learn to do it responsibly.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

You don't need to stop giving advice; just learn to do it responsibly.

The crux of any profession, only take on jobs where you know you are not in over your head.

If I'm talking to someone and they ask why those trees are dieing, I will say that I need to charge a consulting fee (unless I just closed a lucreative deal) to go in that direction. The spend a half hour digging in the basal area with them and talking about the problems in the landscape.

 

[jmack]

Any time you offer an opinion, especially in writing, you are at risk. E&O is good insurance to have if you sell opinions; costs me ~$600/yr.

I don't see Howard's name in the ASCA directory, he's not an RCA. He's basically right, but yes he is eliminating you from competing as well.

A stump is not safe; it is a tripping hazard.

You don't need to stop giving advice; just learn to do it responsibly.

seer, what are this guys risks (the professor that is) not being registered or a member of asca??

 

[maxburton]

To clarify, Howard Eyre doesn't have his own business, and doesn't give opinions about trees except as an expert witness. He also occasionally goes out on calls for Delaware Valley College, where he teaches, but for free. As for myself, I make sure my customers understand (and have it in writing on the back of every quote) that my advice is an educated guess, not a certification. Everyone I've spoken with so far is OK with the idea that every tree is a certain amount of risk. But having a big healthy pin oak next to your house is probably a lot less risky than driving to work, statisticaly speaking.

 

[treeseer]

YOu can call yourself a consulting arborist if all you know is how to mow a lawn; the phrase is not trademarked. "ISA certified Arborist" is, as is "ASCA RCA'.

Expert witnesses can be approved by the court no matter what the qualifications; it's up to the judge. I hope Mr. Eyre has the good judgment to admit it when he is over his head (as we all can be). Perjury is a serious thing.

There's a guy in DE who wrote the book on consulting.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Expert witnesses can be approved by the court no matter what the qualifications; it's up to the judge.

Yep. Once approved in one court, it's easier to get approved in other courts. But there's no "Expert Witness" license. It's just a case of satisfying the judge that you know what you are talking about. THEN it's a matter of convincing the JURY that you know what you're talking about.

I hope Mr. Eyre has the good judgment to admit it when he is over his head (as we all can be). Perjury is a serious thing.

Perjury is about LYING, not having a wrong opinion, or poor judgement.

 

[treeseer]

Perjury is about LYING, not having a wrong opinion, or poor judgement.

If you tell the court that you are an expert, then offer wrong opinions with poor judgment, you may be in trouble. Professor Eyre is not even an isa certified arborist. Since he did the kind favor of warning you that you should not advertise consultations, you may want to return the favor by warning him about offering opinions on tree risk.

Even if he is not paid, he still may be liable. His employer, the college, may also want to know that he is using his position there to qualify his opinions on tree risk. In NC we had an entomologist telling people that low-risk trees were "killers", and that big trees with massive defects were safe. After his dept. head caught wind of this, the guy retired from the U.

 

[xtremetrees]

Here is where most treemen differr from C.A.
I charge $30 bucks for a bid. Hacks dont charge for thier time.
:hmm3grin2orange:

Treeseer is a hack acordingly because he doesnt charge for his BCMA time. Arent't you treeseer

Why should this profession be any different than say a plumbers, at least plumbers dont cut each others throats. It's all about respect when you charge for you time. I do this mostly on large jobs over 5 g where folks are shoppiong for price. I find it weeds out the b.ser's and that way I can lay by the pool instead of being B.s.ed by some homeower that doesnt respect the danger involved.
If your not chargeing for bid's on large jobs your disrespecting our C.A. This is where the steel meets the wood.

A side note: I visisted Joyce Kilmer Nat forest. The WHA infestaion is rampant. All hemlocks look ratty and weak. Our efforts to stop this bug go unfettered were loosing all of them. All the trees are dying and chloris, the hemlocks I love so much are being erracicated, I just saw it first hand up close.

 

[maxburton]

Although Howard is not a certified arborist, neither is Alex Shigo, a man we both consider a friend and a longtime professional expert witness. Also, he has many years of experience and a Master's degree that make him appear qualified.

Just the same, I won't accept money for consultation because my insurance just doesn't cover it.

 

[maxburton]

Also, I forgot to mention that Delaware Valley College seems to have no problem with moonlighting. Lots of the teachers there are part-time and have other "real" jobs.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

If you tell the court that you are an expert, then offer wrong opinions with poor judgment, you may be in trouble.

Only if you lied about your qualifications. Being an idiot doesn't equate to committing perjury. Perjury requires willful falsification, not merely an inflated ego.


Oh, good! Sap is safe!