Contra to 090 Rebuild Help

[DaltonPaull]

I picked up an old Stihl Contra/Lightning here on Arborist Site and am finally getting around to rebuilding it. Because it was missing the hard to find top cover and I need another milling saw I've decided to use Baileys parts to turn it into an 090. I ordered all of the parts I think I will need including the piston/cylinder that they had on sale for $80 (made my day.) I've received all the parts except for the top cover and oil seals which are on backorder.

So far I've rebuilt the carb, torn down the saw and cleaned all the parts. The next step should be to press out the old bearings and press in the new ones. I don't have a press though so I'm wondering if I can do it without a press or if I should bring it into a shop to have this done? Any 090 tricks I should know about?

Here's what it looked like before I started working on it:

This is what it looks like now

Here's the new bearings next to the old ones. The new aftermarket bearings look good to me. Sorry it's a little blurry.

 

[rxe]

I've done loads of these. Don't hammer the shells into or out of the casing! You either need a press, or make something up with a length of stud and a few sockets to draw the shells out/in. I'd find a local garage with a press and borrow it for a new minutes.

There are a set of circlips holding the shells in - make sure these are out or the shells won't be going anywhere.

What state is the piston & jug in? (see my sig....!)

Edit. Just a thought - have you tried putting the 090 jug on the contra body? I can't really see from the pics, but it looks like an old one and they don't take 090 jugs. The 070/090s had an extra depression milled into the case to take the 090 jug.

 

[sawbones]

Edit. Just a thought - have you tried putting the 090 jug on the contra body? I can't really see from the pics, but it looks like an old one and they don't take 090 jugs. The 070/090s had an extra depression milled into the case to take the 090 jug.

ditto, no can fit 090 top on 106cc lightning.

what shape is your p&c in ?

106cc tin shroud is not that hard to locate. lots of them in germany.

 

[Teddy.Scout]

rxe and sawbones are right!
What shape is the P/C in?
If at all salvageable, go for it!!!!!

The 106 top ends are specific! The winged transfer fit snugly into the case! This is not the case with the (S)uper, 090, 070. The gaskets are the SAME! they have the wing, but the (S)uper, 090 and 070 have a lip that excepts the gasket and still makes a seal!

As sawbones said hunt Germany ebay, for around $170-270 to the door, you should be able to find a good 1106(contra) saw that has a decent P/C. Plus you have a carcass for parts! Milling can have it's toll on a saw, not cosmetically but mechanically.

I have a parts 1106(saw) with a good P/C if you want to go that route.

I am sending you a PM of a member that has plenty of parts!
He is the (saw)bone yard of good saws! PUN intended!! LOL!!!

 

[DaltonPaull]

The saw felt like it had low compression and wouldn't start so I decided it was time for the full rebuild. When I got it apart I realized that the rings were stuck probably from sitting too long. The P/C look pretty good except that one of the exhaust studs was helicoiled. I suspect that they are salvageable.

I only got as far as checking that the gasket seamed to fit the case and cylinder. I didn't realize there might be another problem. I'm disappointed that my case might not fit the 090 jug. You guys think it will hit the case on the bottom of the stroke? Maybe someone would be interested in trading cases? I currently mill with an 075 and have been looking forward to a little more power.

 

[sawbones]

I think your best bet is to just finish it back to original
and look for a decent 090 if thats what you want for milling.

I would be looking for an 084-088 or 3120 husky if the 075 wasnt enough.

I believe the 070 and the lightning use the same rings.

 

[sawbones]

p.s. here are the 2 sizes. 66mm lightning S and 58mm lightning

 

[DaltonPaull]

Yeah, mine looks like the one on the right out of those two.

 

[rxe]

Right, here's a sneak preview of something I'm doing....

First up, Contra case on the left, 070 case on the right - guess which one has just been through the washer....

Close up of the Contra cylinder join.

Close up of the 070 cylinder join. I have scraped the gasket away from the left hand side - there is a step in there to take the 090 cylinders. If you put an 070 cylinder on, you seal around the extreme edge, with a bit that hangs over the side.

A NOS Contra-S cylinder (66mm bore, same as the 090):

And the old 070 cylinder that came from the case on the right:

Run out of pictures.....

 

[rxe]

So you can't put an 090 cylinder on a Contra - you need a later series crank case for that. But what you can do is put a Contra-S cylinder on an 070, and an 070 Cylinder on a Contra:

070 turned into a Contra-S:

And a Contra that will become an 070:

 

[Teddy.Scout]

rxe, your the man!!!!

I am unable to get the pics as you did, but have been saying this!
Yes it is a bit strange that a contra has more differences then the contra S other then just the cylinder! Most want to assume it is like the 090 to the 070. BUT IT IS NOT! between you (rxe) and sawbones, some can see the true major differences that hinder most restos!!!

NICE PICS rxe and sawbones!!!!!!

Also with what rxe is doing, you may have a easier time getting a 100cc saw up and running by going with the contra-070 hybrid!!!!!!
NICE WORK AND INFO rxe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DaltonPaull]

You guy's were right, it defiantly won't fit so I'm thinking over my options. Turning it into an 070 wouldn't be so bad although I really did want the extra 30cc's. I looked around on ebay world wide but didn't see a shroud. If I decide to make it back into a contra maybe one will show up by the time I'm done.

I still think the nicest option would be to find a 090/070 case. Baileys sells the aftermarket case with the bearings for $99 which is cheep enough to tempt me but I'd rather reuse a nice older case.

 

[Teddy.Scout]

You guy's were right, it defiantly won't fit so I'm thinking over my options. Turning it into an 070 wouldn't be so bad although I really did want the extra 30cc's. I looked around on ebay world wide but didn't see a shroud. If I decide to make it back into a contra maybe one will show up by the time I'm done.

I still think the nicest option would be to find a 090/070 case. Baileys sells the aftermarket case with the bearings for $99 which is cheep enough to tempt me but I'd rather reuse a nice older case.

I have a 1106 metal shroud that will be for sale if you go that route.
But keep in mind what you have. to get the extra 30cc is not really a option with the 1106 case as you found out, which is how I found out.
In my opinion(which doesn't hold weight), just get her running for your needs!
It will still be a higher end cc saw! Plus as like you said, once the shrouds and other parts pop up, you can grab them here and there. but in the mean time have what your original intentions were as a large saw.
Plus for a good resto, finding a nice 1109 may be a bit more worth the effort

 

[rxe]

Unless you're using an insanely long bar (>36") you won't notice the difference between an 070 and an 090. They both turn at about 7500 rpm, and you'll struggle to slow down an 070 with a normal bar. My favourite milling saw is an 070 - the 090 is just as quick but uses more fuel.

I'm only building a Contra-S because I have the piston + jug for it, and I don't have a standard Contra piston+ jug!

 

[Gumnuts]

Good info RXE

I've done loads of these. Don't hammer the shells into or out of the casing! You either need a press, or make something up with a length of stud and a few sockets to draw the shells out/in. I'd find a local garage with a press and borrow it for a new minutes.

Have done a few 090's .Never had a bearing prob till the latest resto.Bearings and seals on back-order too.

Question - Do i need to replace shells too or is it ok to just pop new needle bearings in ? When ordering from Baileys ,it only shows the needle bearing.
Parts manual only shows one bearing either side.Confused.
Why am i seeing 2 needle bearings either side ?

Thanks

 

[rxe]

The 070 in the pictures had bearing problems....perceptible vertical wiggle when you pulled on the crank.

Yes, you need the shells. In all cases where my bearings have been toasted, the shells were shot as well. Some have a big single cage, most have two small cages per side. No idea why!

 

[Teddy.Scout]

Good info RXE


Have done a few 090's .Never had a bearing prob till the latest resto.Bearings and seals on back-order too.

Question - Do i need to replace shells too or is it ok to just pop new needle bearings in ? When ordering from Baileys ,it only shows the needle bearing.
Parts manual only shows one bearing either side.Confused.
Why am i seeing 2 needle bearings either side ?

Thanks

The 070 in the pictures had bearing problems....perceptible vertical wiggle when you pulled on the crank.

Yes, you need the shells. In all cases where my bearings have been toasted, the shells were shot as well. Some have a big single cage, most have two small cages per side. No idea why!

I have ordered bearings 3 times!
Once from the Stihl dealer, and twice from Baileys.
I got the single (long bearings) from Baileys and double stacks froom the dealer???????????

It seems the single longs are nicer!?!?!?!?

 

[Gumnuts]

Many thanks RXE....PM sent.Maybe the 4 smaller ,were a cheaper generic option ???

DaltonPaul.....when you received your bearings from Baileys ; did they come with the shells ? There ordering photo does not show shells .

I have a good top 070 top end if you want / for the price of postage only.
Gives you the option for an 070 build or if you decide your piston / cyl is good
new rings may give it/ Contra / some more life.

 

[Gumnuts]

I have ordered bearings 3 times!
Once from the Stihl dealer, and twice from Baileys.
I got the single (long bearings) from Baileys and double stacks froom the dealer???????????

It seems the single longs are nicer!?!?!?!?

Thanks Ted/ Matt.....did your Baileys come with the shell ? .It appears DaltonPauls did.Appears DP received the shorter ones......hmmm ???
Not displayed with Baileys bearing pics tho.

 

[Teddy.Scout]

Thanks Ted/ Matt.....did your Baileys come with the shell ? .It appears DaltonPauls did.Appears DP received the shorter ones......hmmm ???
Not displayed with Baileys bearing pics tho.

Baileys were the (longs) or bearings with sleeve!