custom chainsaw bar #2

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Are those Stihl wide nose hard to come by now? Thought they were still making them? Sorry for the derail here Mike...
 
SawTroll said:
Specially made shelf queens leaves a bad taste to me, they should be old saws that earned their retirement, and not refinished in any way.

Just an opinion, others can do as they like.....:)
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HA! I have neither. My old stuff is older than me and still in use. :yes:
 
Embellishing one's tools as a matter of pride goes back a long way, throughout history. Engraved flourishes and inlays are pretty common, even on 'primitive' tools.

When I saw that bar I had two thoughts:
1) WOW!
2) I want one!

The practical questions came later. 'Would I be afraid of damaging it if I ran it?'

Might be a nice way to distinguish your stuff. Might be a nice accessory if you do demonstrations, participate in timber sports type events, for dealers, etc.

Philbert
 
Derf said:
Well friends, I certainly want to firstly appreciate my awe at Mike's interest in using his professional skills to apply to his hobby. I love pictures, and sharing ideas. I'm not trying to knock his work in any way, and I'm happy to see that there are people interested in his work, procuring his services for their own, and paying him what both parties agree is a fair price for the work.

That said, I simply disagree on the price for the work.

Yes, a shop charges $100+/hr but pays the employees significantly less to turn a profit. As an example, a shop may charge $120/hr and pay the employee doing the work $20/hr. It would seem the shop is making out with $100/hr. But the shop has lots of "hidden expenses". Rent, insurance, electricity, trash removal, workers comp, machine equipment, tooling, equipment repairs, shipping costs on supplies, everything down to the light bulbs, printer paper and coffee in the break room. So at the end of it all, they aren't turning $100/hr profit, maybe $40.

If Mike, or anyone else, owned their own shop and simply charged shop rate, I would agree that is what it is and I'll apologize and shut up. But from my perspective, if you're just an employee and using someone else's shop for your hobby, you don't need to charge machine shop rate.

Also, while I agree custom prototype work is always more than mass production, keep in mind this is all done on a CNC mill, which is semi automated production. I would think that 40 minutes right there was just waiting for the tool to do its job. Similarly, 4 coats of gun blue at 15 minutes is an hour of work mostly spent twiddling your thumbs.

I do agree that jobs need to be fairly priced for them to be worth doing. But charging full hourly rate on something that is mostly setup costs is up to negotiation for agreement between a buyer and seller.

I agree that when directed at PSPs there is no price too great. Unfortunately not all of us have the same deep pockets. Luckily some of us have access to the tools required to do porting or machining ourselves and can DIY.
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Evidently you don't have the skills or knowledge to program CNC machinery. If you did you would understand the time involved to do the first one. You should video yourself making a bar adapter on a bridgeport in a cost effective manner like you said you can. Regardless if you do or don't it'll never be as accurate or detailed as Mike's.

Engine turn a bar like Mike did on manual mill and get back with us on how long it take you.

Did you ever fix your calipers so the zero was at the proper twelve o'clock position? o_O
 
Derf said:
Well friends, I certainly want to firstly appreciate my awe at Mike's interest in using his professional skills to apply to his hobby. I love pictures, and sharing ideas. I'm not trying to knock his work in any way, and I'm happy to see that there are people interested in his work, procuring his services for their own, and paying him what both parties agree is a fair price for the work.

That said, I simply disagree on the price for the work.

Yes, a shop charges $100+/hr but pays the employees significantly less to turn a profit. As an example, a shop may charge $120/hr and pay the employee doing the work $20/hr. It would seem the shop is making out with $100/hr. But the shop has lots of "hidden expenses". Rent, insurance, electricity, trash removal, workers comp, machine equipment, tooling, equipment repairs, shipping costs on supplies, everything down to the light bulbs, printer paper and coffee in the break room. So at the end of it all, they aren't turning $100/hr profit, maybe $40.

If Mike, or anyone else, owned their own shop and simply charged shop rate, I would agree that is what it is and I'll apologize and shut up. But from my perspective, if you're just an employee and using someone else's shop for your hobby, you don't need to charge machine shop rate.

Also, while I agree custom prototype work is always more than mass production, keep in mind this is all done on a CNC mill, which is semi automated production. I would think that 40 minutes right there was just waiting for the tool to do its job. Similarly, 4 coats of gun blue at 15 minutes is an hour of work mostly spent twiddling your thumbs.

I do agree that jobs need to be fairly priced for them to be worth doing. But charging full hourly rate on something that is mostly setup costs is up to negotiation for agreement between a buyer and seller.

I agree that when directed at PSPs there is no price too great. Unfortunately not all of us have the same deep pockets. Luckily some of us have access to the tools required to do porting or machining ourselves and can DIY.
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We need an "idiotic" button for posts like these.... even that would be giving this dimwit a compliment.
 
One of my older brothers is a Boeing engineer, been there for decades. He can run CNC, Cinicinnati Millicrons, multiple axies machines, milling machines, lathes, you name it, etc, like the back of his hand...it does take talent to achieve that skill. And there is a cost involved. Juss sayin.
 
I ain't even gonna argue the point the fella made about Mikes' price being too high...my post ain't about that. If he don't wanna pay it, ain't no sweat off my back, nor anyone else's for that matter...and I don't hold nuthin against him. But there is a helluva difference between running a machine... compared to runnin a circular saw, 12" mitre saw, sawz-all, and 99% of other things we all have in our shops. Go back and look at his work on that one bar...left, right, up, down...Cadillac'n to me...I notice **** like that. Hell, I work on avionics and flight controls on C-17's every day...talk about specs...I think Mike did a helluva job on the bar. Simple.
 
USMC615 said:
I ain't even gonna argue the point the fella made about Mikes' price being too high...my post ain't about that. If he don't wanna pay it, ain't no sweat off my back, nor anyone else's for that matter...and I don't hold nuthin against him. But there is a helluva difference between running a machine... compared to runnin a circular saw, 12" mitre saw, sawz-all, and 99% of other things we all have in our shops. Go back and look at his work on that one bar...left, right, up, down...Cadillac'n to me...I notice **** like that. Hell, I work on avionics and flight controls on C-17's every day...talk about specs...I think Mike did a helluva job on the bar. Simple.
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downloadfile.png
Hate to copy this photo. But it was a good one.
 
I work in and amongst a lot of machinists every day in my job, civil service DoD. I spent many yrs on A-6 Intruders and EA-6B Prowlers for the Marine Corps, active duty. When you have guys that can take things to ten thousands'th of an inch all day long, they're pretty good in my book. They can make any damn thing on the planet, given the stock and a print. 99% of the population has no idea what I'm talking about, but that's ok. Machinists make it happen. Gets the plane off the ground, gets the plane home with zero mechanical failures...that's what matters to me...get the guys to and from the combat zone with no failures plane-wise. I spent my time in combat...last thing I wanna see is a bird hit the ground because we didn't do it right here.
 
USMC615 said:
I ain't even gonna argue the point the fella made about Mikes' price being too high...my post ain't about that. If he don't wanna pay it, ain't no sweat off my back, nor anyone else's for that matter...and I don't hold nuthin against him. But there is a helluva difference between running a machine... compared to runnin a circular saw, 12" mitre saw, sawz-all, and 99% of other things we all have in our shops. Go back and look at his work on that one bar...left, right, up, down...Cadillac'n to me...I notice **** like that. Hell, I work on avionics and flight controls on C-17's every day...talk about specs...I think Mike did a helluva job on the bar. Simple.
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I am glad we share common ground, I have been with this company for 14 years (I'm 34) and our customer base is aerospace. Rockwell Collins, BF Goodrich landing gear, Cobham, Gulfstream are our primary customers and we get to make some cool stuff that HAS to be good because lives depend on my parts.

When I do a bar or a vise or an adapter or muffler, you can bet your ass that I will put the best in it that is in me. I have a family of 4 Lil girls under 10 and the minor fee of my time to do a custom bar partially pays for the time away from them. I do this custom stuff mostly because I enjoy it and it supports my hobby and brings me to meet some really cool down to earth people.

I have made 3 of these bars and have yet to make a dime off of them. The next one is going to a special friend also.

Carry on fellas!
 
d34356d6e73ba88a42f1cc865010eb50.jpg
[emoji87]
 
Homelite410 said:
I am glad we share common ground, I have been with this company for 14 years (I'm 34) and our customer base is aerospace. Rockwell Collins, BF Goodrich landing gear, Cobham, Gulfstream are our primary customers and we get to make some cool stuff that HAS to be good because lives depend on my parts.

When I do a bar or a vise or an adapter or muffler, you can bet your ass that I will put the best in it that is in me. I have a family of 4 Lil girls under 10 and the minor fee of my time to do a custom bar partially pays for the time away from them. I do this custom stuff mostly because I enjoy it and it supports my hobby and brings me to meet some really cool down to earth people.

I have made 3 of these bars and have yet to make a dime off of them. The next one is going to a special friend also.

Carry on fellas!
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You keep doing what you're doing young man. You take pride first and foremost with your family, and you take pride in your work. That's a good thang...been there and done that throughout my Marine Corps years, missing my son and daughter to no end...who are now 24 and 17...you gotta good mindset...stick with it. Be there for your daughters, keep up the good machine work. It'll all work out for ya buddy.
 
Homelite410 said:
I too saved the Morgan Freeman pic!
Click to expand...

Damn good one!!

You are a hell of a man Mike. Keep on keeping on brother. Those that support you will keep on doing so. I've met you and all your daughters, but your youngest

I will attest that Mike is everything that his work shows. Good father, friend, and does some Hella good machining.
 
Jeeeezzzzz Derf...
I take it you are fairly new to The Trade.
If Mike screws up a bar who eats it??
Mike
If it isn't even and he has to redo it, who eats it?
Mike again.
And if a customer doesn't like it, who eats it?
Mike being Mike....yup. Mike again.
You know you are a machinist when you know 10% of what you THOUGHT you knew 10 years ago.

Or in the words of Sgt. Hulka in Stripes "Lighten up Francais"
Mike didn't ask for your views.
And you didn't ask for mine. I understand.
Just take it as advice from an Ol Phart who has been in the trade for a few decades.
Mike would help you and answer any question you have. As would I.
Rant over.


Mike!!!!!
Nice work. I used to be a member of a small museum that had a Type 41 Bugatti. Lots of engine turning in that engine bay.
Lord it was art......also used as stress relieving of sheet metal.

I've done custom work.
Fair price.
 

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