Cutting of downed trees - Looking for tips

[moon]

Just moved into a place with 5 1/2 acres of mostly woods. Looks like mostly Oak and some small scattered pines to me.

A tornado blew through here a few years back before we moved in. The previous owners did little if anything to use the downed timber. They had a pellet stove upstairs but nothing to use wood in. I installed a wood stove in our basement. The downed trees are mostly Oaks with up to 40" trunks. Many are in the 24" to 32" range.

So now. I need to become competant with a chain saw. I always had a cheap one for taking out small trees and bushes but just purchased a Stihl MS361, I have both 20" and 25" bars and a fair number of chains for each. I always use gloves and helmet/mask.

Keep in mind the largest tree I have every downed/cut up might have been 15' high and 6" around. I have read most of what I could find with the saw manuals and internet. I really found a lot a good info on felling trees but not for timber laying on the ground.

My first order of business is to start taking apart the downed trees for firewood. Next season I'll work on getting down some dead standing trees. All I want right now is to become good at bucking and limbing downed trees.
I think I am safe and can get the limbs out pretty well. I am comfortable with the MS361. I just started to work with the 25" bar. Again, I love it, and while careful, still feel pretty good with it.

Here is my question: Lets say I have cleared a tree and area of just about all limbs. Here in front of me now is this massive oak trunk, 60 feet or more of it, and 38 inches at the base. Say its laying on a gentle slope, and the tree is touching the ground pretty much all the way through its length. What is my approach to this. I have some ideas but would like to hear from experienced cutters. Thanks

Also - did I do the right thing by getting the 25" bar?

 

[Job Corps Tree]

Cutting Downed Trees

Buy a pair of Chain Saw Chaps. Will do more than Gloves & mask

 

[Al Smith]

Well Moon be carefull ,they can get ya if you don't watch out .

Generally speaking you cut your way into a downed tree.Clear the brush first and keep the debris from under foot.Clean it up as you go.

The best advice I can give is to find an experienced woodsman for help and guidence,it's nearly impossible to give direction over the internet.

 

[PA Plumber]

Can't cover all your questions, but maybe this will help...

Downhill lie, touching most of the way.
I start my cut on the "bad" side of the trunk (downhill) and finish on the "good" side (uphill).
Slide a wedge in the top of the cut and finish out the bottom. The wedge keeps the bar from getting pinched as often.
The sawdust will turn a different color when you hit the bark or outside wood at the bottom.
Keep the chain out of the dirt and enjoy.
I really like to cut big logs like this one.

 

[moon]

Can't cover all your questions, but maybe this will help...

Downhill lie, touching most of the way.
I start my cut on the "bad" side of the trunk (downhill) and finish on the "good" side (uphill).
Slide a wedge in the top of the cut and finish out the bottom. The wedge keeps the bar from getting pinched as often.
The sawdust will turn a different color when you hit the bark or outside wood at the bottom.
Keep the chain out of the dirt and enjoy.
I really like to cut big logs like this one.

That pic is exactly what I am dealing with right down to how most of them lie. I have been clearing areas first and limbing and using a shovel to clear around where the tree is touching the dirt. Just looking for some more details.

 

[moon]

I guess one thing I am asking is about saw placement. Lets say I'm using a 25" bar on a 38" log, where and how do I start my cuts? Where is the nose of the saw going on the first cut? Then the second? Are we trying to roll the log over for the final cut? Sorry, I am new to this and have zero experience on large timber.

 

[PA Plumber]

I guess one thing I am asking is about saw placement. Lets say I'm using a 25" bar on a 38" log, where and how do I start my cuts? Where is the nose of the saw going on the first cut? Then the second? Are we trying to roll the log over for the final cut? Sorry, I am new to this and have zero experience on large timber.

No pro here, but I'll give it a try.

Start your saw as close to the "dawgs," "dogs," "metal cleat thingy," as possible on top of the log. Open up the throttle and let the saw settle onto the log. Hang on tight with your thumb wrapped around the top hand bar and firm grip on the throttle bar.

Some people like to rock the bar front to back, some back to front, and some straight down. With the size logs you have, I would go front to back to cut as much log from one side as possible.

Very important not to force the saw into the wood. Let the chain do the cutting and when I say "rocking" that is not a back and forth motion. It is just tipping the saw to the front and dropping it to the back.

Like Al said, this is tough to explain.

If you have to start forcing the saw into the cut to make it eat wood, get a sharp chain.

Man there is a lot to this, when you start writing down how to buck.

There is more, take your time. Is there someone you know who is experienced and could spend some time in the woods with you?

 

[upandcommer]

here is what I do it might work for ya it might not. tree on the ground lay the saw on top of the log and then turn the bar tip into the log at full throttle once you bar has become invisible to you then start working your way backwards. till your saw's powerhead is out to the side of the log no proceed to cut to gound level i.e. sitting the head on the ground and the bar fully in the wood. Now pull the saw from the wood and go to the other side of the wood and start the other side of the cut till you are to the same point on the other side. Now measure out the next cut I like 16-18 blocks and proceed to continue down the log. if you can get all the way through in a few spots it helps to keep the logs as small as possible. then grab the timber jack and roll the smaller say 3-5 block logs and finish the final cutting from the other side of the log a wdge can be handy to cut through in the few places you will need to as it will allow you to cut through to the bark and then when you get a bite with the timber jack you will pop it in that spot.

 

[PA Plumber]

After reading Al's post again, this came to mind.


I am in the middle of a pretty good size Hemlock logging job. I had only felled a couple of really large trees and didn't really have a clue.

An experienced logger was willing to come out to our stand for a Saturday. That was a very educational day! It cost me lunch and I mailed him a gift certificate for a restaurant. We have become friends and I deal with their sawmill in a regular basis.

One of the things he probably said 50 times through the day...

LOOK UP, pay attention to your surroundings, and TAKE YOUR TIME.

 

[moon]

Thank you all. The pic was great cuz it really reflects my situation.

Even though I would say I am a 2 on a scale of 10 in experience, I may be on the right path to getting at least safe and competant. I started to try the 24inch trunks that I cleared and limbed around. And found that I start my cut pretty much level, using the weight of the saw to do the work, then angle my nose frontward and let the saw drop down in the back. It seems natural so far in that technique. I watch the wood and use a plastic wedge as needed. But have tackled any real big stuff yet.

What is the timber jack?

 

[ericjeeper]

I took a two day logging class

But it was for felling not bucking.
There are a lot of tricks to bucking. But most need to wait til you can get a friend that has a lot of experience.
One of my tricks for a log that is going to want to drop a bit in the cut. Is to Plunge in with the BOTTOM of the bar Tip about 2-3 inches down..But being very careful to keep the top of the bar from cutting and kicking back. Then I plunge through and and make my cut all the way out of the bottom. Then come back and cut out the top.That way my bar does not get pinched...(as often)
I suggest going to a get together if there are ever any in your state.
I am hosting one In Indiana and that is one thing that can easily be discussed here, as we will be bucking up some firewood. and playing with saws. Cutting cookies and such.

 

[Ianab]

This is a booklet put out by the NZ OSH department. A lot more advanced info than a lot of 'guides'. It's written for farmers and firewood cutters, but here in NZ the local farms have a lot of big, ugly and hazardous old trees. So it actually has info how to deal with them without killing yourself.

It wont instantly make you a trained lumberjack, but it does point out the comman hazards and what to do about them.

http://www.osh.govt.nz/order/catalogue/pdf/treefell.pdf

Cheers

Ian

 

[PA Plumber]

This is a booklet put out by the NZ OSH department. A lot more advanced info than a lot of 'guides'. It's written for farmers and firewood cutters, but here in NZ the local farms have a lot of big, ugly and hazardous old trees. So it actually has info how to deal with them without killing yourself.

It wont instantly make you a trained lumberjack, but it does point out the comman hazards and what to do about them.

http://www.osh.govt.nz/order/catalogue/pdf/treefell.pdf

Cheers

Ian

Thanks for posting.

 

[dimanager]

Moon, a lot of good advice so far. I would add get a few plastic wedges. Even with the trunk flat on the ground, you could still get your saw pinched.
When you get just about half way through, put your wedge in the top of the cut to keep the log from closing shut on the saw, you don't have to pound it in just get it snug. You will also need the wedges when you start to drop the standing trees.

Good luck and stay safe.
Sam

 

[computeruser]

Timberjack = cant hook + stand. It's handy for rolling logs and holding small-to-medium sized ones off the ground for easier cutting.

 

[Dadatwins]

The owners manual that came with your chainsaw should have some instructions and illustrations showing proper use of the chainsaw. If you don't have the manual, check out Stihl usa website for some instruction. That being said for a downed tree cut all the wood that is free and not under tension or holding up the downed tree first, then some wedges and a cant hook will be helpful for the tension wood. be careful.

 

[Sprig]

Some excellent advice so far and I have only a bit to add. By the sound of it some of these are quite large, I'd study the logs carefully and after sticking what I could under any high points cut it up in more manageable lengths, as in something you can roll since it sounds like much is on the ground. One thing to watch out for is larger lengths rolling on you, please be aware of that as when you release a section of a not-so-straight piece the balance changes which might make placing some of the cutoff pieces as wedging down the length to prevent rolling a good safety measure. Work your way down the logs from the top to bottom, usually the easiest. When the width of the log starts to exceed the length of the bar I take this approach. Cut a nice straight line on the top of the log then use this as a guide to move your saw over the top to the far side while dogged in, cut until your saw is through the thickest part, then draw your saw back and do again then pull back along your 'guideline' and cut as normal, dogging in every few inches and going till maybe 20-30 degrees nose down or so. I try to avoid cutting down into logs that are longer than the bar (thinking of going from the other side) unless there is no other way, this is a very good KB opportunity if you are not in total control when moving the saw to re-dawg it. Maintain your awareness of the KB zone and stay to the side, don't go lookin' in the cut while the saw is cutting etc., common sense but.........people do that sort of thing, sheesh. If the log is on the ground stop cutting when you're close to the ground (saw body)and the bar is level (kissing dirt is a real pita, don't drop that tip eh ), do the rest of the cuts thusly, stop the saw, roll the log so that the opposite sides of the cuts are visible near the top and finish the cut from the top (and if you happen to pinch there its easy to wedge it free, don't yank on the bar eh), when you are totally comfortable with the saw and its potential you can undercut the strap but I generally find it much safer to cut from the outside as I have had slightly closed cuts cause minor kickback while reaching the bar in for an undercut, my personal preference hence from the outside. As I said before, always be aware of any branch stubs etc. that may be holding the log from rolling over.
You have been given good stuff on using wedges to keep your gap open on top, and for sure get some decent chaps (your legs will be happy). If you have alot of this to do consider investing in a pee-vee (or cant hook if you will, semantics) as this will save you much labor rolling pieces over.
Also be very aware of things like rolling over when taking the smaller top branches off and also branches that may be under load (ie. tensioned up when the tree fell, potential danger there imho).
I find that I have become rather long winded here and apologize, but there are as many things that can go wrong bucking with a saw as anything else, work smart and safe there mon and have fun with the 361!
My 0.02$ worth fer the evening (totally beat from driving in da rain today)



Serge

 

[Fuzly]

A tornado blew through here a few years back before we moved in. The previous owners did little if anything to use the downed timber.

Please use caution. Trees that have been blown down by a tornado can be dangerous to work on. The best way I can explain it is that the high winds of a tornado may put some unique stresses on the wood. They are pushed down with a lot of force and sometimes land on other trees and when they are cut some of that energy can be released.

We had a large tornado on the southern end of the Nicolet National Forest this spring and Forest Service refuses to issue firewood permits for that area, much to the dismay of many of our local woodburner owners, but they are concerned for folks safety.

I'm not trying to scare you off, I get the feeling from your initial post that you have common sense, and I don't know the severity of the storm in your area. I just want you to know that tornado blown trees offer some special challenges.

You have received some great advice so far, just take you time and LOOK before you cut.

As far as the 25" bar, I think your 20 incher is closer to the sweet spot, but it's more a personal preference. You're within Stihl's guidelines, so if it works good for you, who cares what I think?:biggrinbounce2: I'm happy you're putting some of that wood to good use.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Sounds like you are going to be a safe cutter. You are doing the right thing, asking questions and learning.

I'll give you a couple of "quickies", then sources for detailed learning...

First of all NEVER allow the top quarter of the end of the chainsaw bar to contact wood. The teeth will dig into the wood, get stuck, then that bar goes flying up and back towards you (kickback). So watch what is behind what you are cutting. Clear everything away before cutting (sounds like you are already doing this). Never cut into a pile of logs! Instead drag a log out, then cut it on the ground or whatever. So on the ground there is just that one log.

Wear chaps, chainsaw protective gloves, ear plugs, face shield.

Then logs on hills can roll. There is a lot of energy there. A log can run you over! When you saw a log on a hill, this can "release" the log and it can start rolling. If partially up in the air, you can cut it, then one part drops on your toes and the other goes flying up and smacks you in the nose on the way up! Etc, etc, basically think about what is going to happen with that log before cutting it. You can always drag it or roll it to a more safe position. Can attach a cable to your truck and pull a log out to a better cutting spot, etc.

I would suggest getting the Stihl "Chain Saw Safety, Operation & Maintenance" DVD. It covers just about everything. Get it here...
http://www.stihlusa.com/information/info_lit_video.html

Logging Safety etool, manual logging...
(Click on various things to learn about safety)
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/manual.html

 

[turnkey4099]

Just a few add-ons.

I find it is best to work from the top of the tree to the base, limbing and blocking as I go. That way the log will be propped by uncut limbs most of the length, tension and out of balance is realeased a bit at a time and there is nothing left beyond where you are cutting to cause problems.

On a slope always work from the high side if at all possible. Any rolling will go away from you.

Try not to work above your head when cutting limbs.

Harry K