Defeated by small saw I could not get right

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kevin j

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The previous post on 064 with leaking seals brought this question to mind.


Years ago, I got a ‘free’ Poulan S25 Micro I think it was called. (Free is another story, we all know how that goes.) Ran it for years. Eventually, it would start, rev up for 1-2 seconds, and die. Would not restart unless it sat for 10 seconds or so. Starting on WD40 or ether, same story, so not suspected lack of fuel delivery, but did occasionally show flooded condition after it ran that second or two.

Wasn’t worth fixing, I had other saws. However, I have wrenched all my life, taught small engines and motorcycle classes, and the male ego couldn’t deal with being defeated by this little saw.

I did all the normal tests, nothing but frustration, let it sit for months until a new brainstorm, try something else, let it sit again. Eventually I surrendered and gave it away for parts. That was 5 or 10 years ago.

It always seemed to me that it started and ran, delivered too much fuel, flooded, and died. I thought too much pulse pressure was causing too much fuel pressure. Something had to do with pressure build up because the time was very consistent; Start, rev, hold high idle for maybe one second, and die.

Not in order, but I suspected ring blowby, replaced rings (aftermarket of some sort, but seemed correct), did carb cleanings, new diaphragms, checked popoff pressure, increased and decreased that with spring changes, tried many H & L screw settings, compression test, pressure vacuum the crankcase, checked the seals, cleaned points, plug of course, magneto gap to flywheel, disconnected kill switch wiring, ran with and without muffler.


Has bugged me occasionally ever since. What in the world did I miss?

kcj
 
I would guess the fuel metering tab was not bent right or the needle was sticking open. The other thing it could be is a cracked coil when it would heat up it could short causing unburnt gas and lack of spark to kill the engine when it cools back down the crack closes and the coil would work until it heats up again. Just guesses Oh don't feel bad we all have those pain in the neck things I had a remminton saw and it would boil the gas in the tank I couldn't figure out how to stop it.
 
Last edited:
Hey,
Couldn't you come up with a more original name than that ???

:monkey:
 
Years ago, I got a ‘free’ Poulan S25 Micro I think it was called. (Free is another story, we all know how that goes.) Ran it for years. Eventually, it would start, rev up for 1-2 seconds, and die. ........... Has bugged me occasionally ever since. What in the world did I miss?

kcj

The Poulan S25D's along with a couple of other of the small models uses a check valve between the crankcase and oil tank to provide chain lube pressure. Those check valves are notorious for getting sawdust stuck in them. When they do they don't seal properly and then one of two things happens.

1) if the chain oil tank is filled above the valve, then the saw will usually start and run, but the fuel mixture will seem to be erratic and the saw will usually smoke badly. It will do this until ....

2) when the oil level goes below the check valve, the engine will draw air through the oil tank and will run lean, causing the start/stop condition that you describe.

Now .... this is just an idea and something that I've seen a couple of times. It "might" be right and then again .... maybe not:)

cheers for now
 
Let the newbee take a shot!
Could it have been a crank case to fuel tank leak that you missed with the pressure test? The old Poulans split right down the middle, right?
 
The previous post on 064 with leaking seals brought this question to mind.


Years ago, I got a ‘free’ Poulan S25 Micro I think it was called. (Free is another story, we all know how that goes.) Ran it for years. Eventually, it would start, rev up for 1-2 seconds, and die. Would not restart unless it sat for 10 seconds or so. Starting on WD40 or ether, same story, so not suspected lack of fuel delivery, but did occasionally show flooded condition after it ran that second or two.

Wasn’t worth fixing, I had other saws. However, I have wrenched all my life, taught small engines and motorcycle classes, and the male ego couldn’t deal with being defeated by this little saw.

I did all the normal tests, nothing but frustration, let it sit for months until a new brainstorm, try something else, let it sit again. Eventually I surrendered and gave it away for parts. That was 5 or 10 years ago.

It always seemed to me that it started and ran, delivered too much fuel, flooded, and died. I thought too much pulse pressure was causing too much fuel pressure. Something had to do with pressure build up because the time was very consistent; Start, rev, hold high idle for maybe one second, and die.

Not in order, but I suspected ring blowby, replaced rings (aftermarket of some sort, but seemed correct), did carb cleanings, new diaphragms, checked popoff pressure, increased and decreased that with spring changes, tried many H & L screw settings, compression test, pressure vacuum the crankcase, checked the seals, cleaned points, plug of course, magneto gap to flywheel, disconnected kill switch wiring, ran with and without muffler.


Has bugged me occasionally ever since. What in the world did I miss?

kcj
Gotta hate it when that happens man! What you described is exactly how my o8s behaved when I first recieved it many years ago (one of my dad's garage sale finds and the same one I've mentioned a few times before that sits in pieces still :( ), start and run then rev out and die. After pulling everything apart and cleaning etc., bugger would still do it. After pulling my hair out for a day or so and wearing my arm/elbow to shreds I gave up. Couple of days later my work partner shows up, he had years of chainsaw exp under his belt to I asked him if he could figure it out, he did. One start and he goes 'Uh-yup, classic.', turns out it was a weak fuel line (in the tank where its not checkable, no holes in it, just worn out from years of exposure to gas, so what would happen is..it would start, the line would collapse, the saw would lean out and die, let it sit for a minute or three, the line would re-form its shape, on and on. Since that fateful day I never hesitate to check that first when those particular symptoms occur and 9/10 that be the issue.
The trouble is that often everything 'looks' fine, that old black rubber hose can be a real pain, especially if it turns to mook. :bang:
My thought fer the afternoon.

:cheers:

Serge
 
I noticed that too!
"Will the real Kevin Jay please stand up!"

There's only ONE kevinj !!!




I used to be schizophrenic, but we are much better now......



guess we have never been on the same post before !

with or without the space, but still will be confusing.
if its a crock of bs, must have been his posting... if brilliant, mine.

you been here first with more posts,
whats the vote, should I change it?

I could change it to boboak...........
 
all good suggestions, wish I had it now to check
-Metering tab seems quite possible. Held psi and tests, but might have pulsed open under running condiditons differently than under static checks
-cracked coil, nope, never had enough heat effect, always the one second burst. hot or cold engine.
-tank vent. Tried with or without cap. have seen that before on Briggs engines.
-check valve to oil tank. could be. It had a manual oiler button, not even sure if it had an auto oiler, but this is possible. i can't recall for sure, but didn't seem to smoke excessively, but who knows what I expected then, I think I ran cheap 2S oil, not synthetic.
-crankcase seams to gas tank, possible. vertically split, Held the psi check but I did not soap the seams in that area, mainly in the crank seals area. But did try with tank cap off.
-Fuel line. Replaced with Tygon, no changes. also fuel filter.

-Poulan. Very likely the explanation... Actually a nice little saw, tiny, old tech, but pretty reliable before that. My 'other saw' at the time was a 28 inch David Bradley, gear drive saw with 1/2 inch chain. Cut well, but after sharpening chain I could see the white paint mark for the starting link going round and round, that's how slow it ran.
Got my 026 used, like a new century of technology. Assorted saws later, the 026 is still my favorite today and what I use when someone else is using my newer stuff.

-I will write it off a like a Microsoft thing, no explanation, just because.....

But the responses have given me grist for the next time..... tks all.



poster formerly known as kevin j
 
reed valve: just visually check for damage. did press test without inlet pugged, reed did not totally seal, but not sure if it is supposed to be bubble tight. Should it be? Motorcycle engines the reeds do leak a bit sometimes. Plstic reeds seal better, I thik the P engine was stainless steel.
 

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