Demo a kick-back?

[DeanBrown3D]

My bro is coming over for a visit, and I want to point out to him as strongly as possible what a kick-back can do. Unfortunately he has no experience with chainsaws and is not the training or reading type, and despite this he's getting himself into his own business.

I've never had a bad experience with kickback, thankfully. But it would be good to demo something. I was thinking about positioning the bar so that it will kick into a branch and stop it coming back too far. Tips welcome.

One last thing, which of my saws to use (see below)? I gather that bigger saws and longer bars are more, um, efficient?

Dean

 

[rivahrat]

sounds like a bad idea all the war around. you never know exactly how it will come back at you. if you have your mind set in it id sink the tip a good way into a log. make a big loose plunge cut then make contact with the tip IN THE CUT. good luck with the demo. i hope he gets something out of it otjer that stitches.

 

[ghitch75]

you'll put your eye out!! LOL man be safe doing that it could get away from you!

 

[Echo Boyboyboy]

kickback video

Just watch the videos in this post.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=26226

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

He has no experience with saws, and he's going into business? Am I reading that right? And not to be rude or condescending, but a seventh grader should be able to understand the dynamics and consequences of kickback.

I just don't think this is a very sound idea, inducing kickback with your biggest saw and relying on a branch to stop it. See the blood on the end of the bar that smiley is holding? That's from showing his brother about kickback! For God's sake, if you have to do this, don't induce full kickback with your largest saw. Do the plunge cut thing and just show him kickback tendency!

But have him watch the video first and pray that it's enough to illustrate the facts for him. And then try to get him to reconsider going into business.

Jeff

 

[skwerl]

Actually you need to think about keeping your body out of line with the bar when cutting. Nothing like having it kick back at you with the chain spinning at a few thousand RPM to make you think about keeping your desirable fleshy parts off to the left side of the saw when making a cut. Newer saw users always seem to get right behind and/or over top of the saw. More experienced users hold it off to the side so any kickback will throw the saw up beside them instead of into them.

 

[DeanBrown3D]

Ok great video. Where's the dont try this at home caption?

As for trying to stop him from starting his business, that's not my place anyway, all I can do is try to give as much safety spiel as possible.

 

[spacemule]

What a coincidence--my brother is going into business moving large pianos and safes up stairwells. I want to make sure he understands the consequences, so I thought I might try to simulate what happens when a safe gets away from you by chunking one on his head. What do you all think?

 

[rivahrat]

well just so long as its a little safe and nobody gets hurt i think it sounds great.

 

[DeanBrown3D]

What a coincidence--my brother is going into business moving large pianos and safes up stairwells. I want to make sure he understands the consequences, so I thought I might try to simulate what happens when a safe gets away from you by chunking one on his head. What do you all think?

Sounds like you have tried it yourself already, from the way you talk to people here.
IMHO not everyone with a saw is blessed with your superior experience and intellect. I would rather my family members not test this out on their necks, but then again I am old fashioned in that respect, you know, actually caring for people and being concerned for their safety.

So go toss off.

 

[tony marks]

hes probably trying anything to make a living. it amazes me to see the economic forcaster talk about how gnp is up. people are losing jobs everywhere.
but to start a buisiness using a chainsaw ,without any experiece,all i can do is wish him luck.he ll probably have beginners luck . at least we can hope .

 

[DeanBrown3D]

Thanks. He's actually in the UK. He used to work for the government, but got severence to leave (before they fired him for nothing later I guess). So he's getting along by cutting grass, hedges, and taking down a few trees here and there, no license either, but its just himself.

At least he picked up a decent saw with a chain / inertia brake.

 

[computeruser]

As for trying to stop him from starting his business, that's not my place anyway, all I can do is try to give as much safety spiel as possible.

I agree with you on this. I think that there is enough information out there - printed, video, etc. - that it should be easy to print up some information for him to look over. Emphasize as best you can the importance of understanding the mechanics of the equipment he will be using, and you will have done pretty much everything you can do. You can bring a horse to water...

That said, I have demonstrated the power of the saw chain to propel things forward by dropping small twigs on the top of the bar of a running Echo top handle to get the point across to an idiot (a volunteer chainsaw user at a cleanup project at a nature preserve I am involved with) who was being negligent in the use of his Stihl 290. I was in no position to stop his use of his personal saw, but I felt that I was within my rights to point out that the good old rule of physics about equal-and-opposite forces could just as well have propelled the saw in the other direction. It got the point across and his behavior improved; he never returned for one of our other workdays, thankfully.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

So he's getting along by cutting grass, hedges, and taking down a few trees here and there,..

Well it sounds like he's got at least some experience. Just do your best to help him along the way.

Jeff

 

[spacemule]

you know, actually caring for people and being concerned for their safety.

So go toss off.

Which is exactly why I was pointing out what an idiotic idea inducing a kickback with only a branch to stop the saw is. I mean really, do you have to shoot yourself with a gun to know not to do it? How should I respond to something like this?

 

[smokechaser]

I do a kick back demo during saw training every year. I usually do it with a 044 into the end of a log or a stump. Realizing the danger in this and understanding the reaction the saw will have depending on the part of the tip that you stub it I've never had a problem with demoing this. Ive been showing this demo since 1993. I would not suggest doing this if you do not have control over the saw. Most accidents with kick back come from stubbing the tip when the operator is not paying attention.

I guess being 6'3" and 240 lbs may also help.

 

[DeanBrown3D]

Well I was in the UK this weekend and I demo'd to my bro the kickback on a MS180 with 14" bar, at around 1/2 max speed. This is probably one of the worst bar sizes I guess, and it was quite clear that even at that speed there was very little I could do to hold back the kick, even by bracing myself firmly. At full speed, geeez it would be a nightmare.

I also watched painfully as my bro used the saw for some test cuts, and noticed him waving the saw around right after a cut and before the chain had stopped, and also holding the thing with his face directly over the bar during a cut. Now I wish he had never gotten the idea of buggering around with a chainsaw.

Well, anyway, thats my update. Be safe!

Dean

 

[geofore]

kickback

Hopefully you told him the proper stance is to one side and listen to the saw cut, don't stand over it and watch it cut. It doesn't cut faster watching it, same as watching water boil, it takes longer if you watch. He needs to listen to it run in the sweet spot (the right rpm) and not try to count cutters as they go by. That is so typical of a new guy with a saw, to try and watch the cutters go by.:jawdrop:

 

[sawn_penn]

I also watched painfully as my bro used the saw for some test cuts, and noticed him waving the saw around right after a cut and before the chain had stopped, and also holding the thing with his face directly over the bar during a cut. Now I wish he had never gotten the idea of buggering around with a chainsaw.

Everyone cuts this way to begin with. Over time, if he's told the right way to do things he'll (hopefully) get better.

It's like driving a car. Everyone starts out being bad at it. Over time, most of us get to be OK behind the wheel. Some of us carry bad habits that make our driving more dangerous.

 

[MikeInParadise]

Everyone cuts this way to begin with. Over time, if he's told the right way to do things he'll (hopefully) get better.

It's like driving a car. Everyone starts out being bad at it. Over time, most of us get to be OK behind the wheel. Some of us carry bad habits that make our driving more dangerous.

Of course with driving:

we start out bad
get better
get older

get bad again