double crotch

[legendrider]

can somone explain the process of double tie in with a second tail, not sure if i did it right. i throw the end of my line over the crotch and tied the split tail on the fall line going towards the ground,, however i felt that my original tie in hitch wouldnt adjust because it was now pulled out of the way and the rope to tight to adjust it. forgive my ignorance but noone climbs with a tail at my job but me.

 

[skwerl]

Double crotching can be done with a second line or with the tail of your lifeline. Just use the end of your lifeline to create a second tie-in. Your two 'tails' will actually be the same rope. This can create issues if the rope is too short or if you drop limbs on to it, so you must be extra aware of your rope location and routing.

 

[Fireaxman]

Legend, I've gotten where I usually just use a seperate, shorter rope for the double crotch, to avoid the problems Skwerl mentions. Dropping limbs on the loop formed by the trailing end of my lifeline was particularly what made me nervous.

When I double crotch, then, I essentially have 2 completely independant systems, with 2 tie ins on my saddle.

When you said you "... tied the split tail on the fall line going towards the ground" did that mean your second friction hitch was tied to the tail leaving your first friction hitch? Whether you use a Second (independant) line or the tail of your original climbing line, the second friction hitch needs to be tied to the line leaving the second crotch, not the line leaving the first crotch.

"... my original tie in hitch wouldnt adjust because it was now pulled out of the way and the rope to tight to adjust it." The second friction hitch should have no impact at all on the first one.

 

[legendrider]

thanks

I tied the second tail to the line after it came throught the second crotch and the runs to the ground. how many feet a second line do you have for your second tie in point i though of that but im trying to avoid having my groundman do any extra work usually he is under two climbers .

 

[Stumper]

Legend, You really aren't making your problem clear. I think that what you have said is that you are using the tail of your line just as if you were tying in with a second rope (good) but that you then found that the hitch was difficult to operate on your first tie in because your weight was suspended between the 2 ropes and you were putting a lot of pressure on the first tie in while swinging out sideways from the 1st tie in point. ?? . If so .... While we would tend to think that our weight being shared between 2 tie-ins would mean less pressure on each that is only true if the ropes are at a fairly included angle(meaning the V of the ropes departing to there respective anchors or tie in points is about as sharp as the letter v or even narrower). As we approach weighting the midpoint of a straight line the pressures generated at the anchors gets greater-on a taut line weighting it midline may cause loads 5 times the actual weight. -You won't come close to the factor 5 loads with a double crotch scenario but 1.5 -2 times the actual load are quite easy to get. What this means is.... Your hitch was extra tight and hard to work due to a heavier than normal load on it. Ideally all of our tie in points would always be high above our work allowing easy lateral movement-unfortunately we run out of tree. Your options are A. find a hitch configuration that responds more easily to your attempts to release it under high loads but still grabs under normal loads or B. unload the hitch before feeding line ( in other words grap the ropecabove the hitch and pull your self in toward the spot you're actually trying to move away from , then release the hitch for a foot or so and repeat so that you move out in little stages. Easiest solution is probably going to come from a different hitch or dropping or ADDING a wrap to the one you use now. In the mean time just remember to take up some of the load with your muscles so that you can play with the hitch with the other hand when you get "stuck" this way.

 

[Fireaxman]

"How many feet of second line ..."

... how many feet a second line do you have for your second tie in point i though of that but im trying to avoid having my groundman do any extra work usually he is under two climbers .

I work on 150 feet of Blue Streak, which usually leaves plenty of tail on the ground for my descent. I double crotch with a 25, 45, or 75 foot piece of Arborplex, whichever piece will NOT reach the ground, but will be just comfortably long enough to make the double crotch and get me back underneath the Blue Streak safely when I'm done with the double crotch. That way I don't have to worry about slack from 2 ropes piling up on the ground or getting tangled on lower branches. Your ground man will have to take care of the slack from only 1 rope, your primary climbing line. I use a Knut or VT for a friction hitch on my primary line (thanks to Skwerl, Stumper, and a few others that recently got me started with the advanced hitches) but just use a traditional bridge with a Blakes for the double crotch.

 

[zebbydee]

I tied the second tail to the line after it came throught the second crotch and the runs to the ground. how many feet a second line do you have for your second tie in point i though of that but im trying to avoid having my groundman do any extra work usually he is under two climbers .

I know this is pretty late to post but I had a similar issue. Legend, I think you want to do this:

View attachment 56985

Instead of this:

View attachment 56986

In other words, mirror the configuration you used for your primary tie-in by pulling up the free bitter end of the line from the ground, looping it around the second crotch and attaching it to your saddle, then attaching the split tail.

Excuse the awful drawings.:fart:

 

[moss]

Excuse the awful drawings.:fart:

The measure of a drawing or diagram is show well it communicates, in this case you did an excellent job. Or more simply said, nice work on the drawings.
-moss

 

[Job Corps Tree]

Real good Drawings and great about the Dangers of droping Logs and Heavy Limbs into that Loop down below that has alway been a real problem for newer climbers to understand