Dropping Standing Dead Stuff

[haveawoody]

rwoods,

Well I'm probably pretty close to 5d, I've never measured the cut afterwards but it's no big angle.
Less than an inch on a 3ft tree.
On the dead and dying i tend to leave a bit more meat on the hinge with the finish of the cut 1/2" higher than you would with a live tree, i guess that habbit is from having a few hinge crumbles over the years.

Then using another tree i winch the beast to the ground well away from it.
Much like Whitespider has in his elm drop, just add some distance replace truck with a big tree and 10t winch.
When they come down I'm probably 50 further away than the top and behind a tree

That is the usual plan but sometimes the tree didnt get the paperwork

 

[haveawoody]

Whitespider,

Nice drop!
Your technique is pretty similar to mine.
Two plastic wedges, a slight downcut and plan to finish above the v with some hinge meat remaining.
Then pull it down well away from the scene.

Only difference for me is a bit more distance, winch inplace of truck and a tree as a base for the winch.
Nice to drop a tree and not be anywhere near it when it happens.

 

[Whitespider]

Most of the time I don’t use the “truck” when working alone; I prefer to use the winch mounted to the front of that little tractor you see in the last pic. I chain the back of the tractor to a tree, and normally set it up farther back and to the side away from the drop… but in this instance I had few options. Besides, I don’t trust the hinge on standing-dead, and because it was so close to the power lines the “truck” allowed me to “pull” a lot faster than the winch… that way I can use momentum to keep the tree moving in the correct direction even if the hinge fails. By-the-way, the hinge did fail on that drop (on the side away from the truck), somewhat after the tree went over-center… but by that time I had it moving at a pretty quick rate so momentum and the continuous acceleration from the truck put it down exactly where I intended. I don’t want to “jerk” it, I want smooth but quick and continuous acceleration… tight cable near all the way to the ground. (Although, admittedly, the rapid pull probably contributed to the hinge failure… which was inconsequential at that point.)

I use the wedges as a gauge. I put quite a bit of tension on the cable after making my face-cut, and place the wedges with hand pressure as early as possible in the back-cut. Then as I continue the back-cut I watch the wedges… as soon as they “go loose” or fall out I stop cutting and start pulling. That way, depending on the condition (or strength) of the wood I’ll only cut as much as I need to, leaving as much hinge as is reasonable… reducing the chance of premature hinge failure. I’ve kind’a developed a feel… if the start of the “pull” don’t “feel” right (the tree should start moving immediately as the pull pressure increases, whether using truck, winch or come-a-long) I’ll back off a little and deepen my back-cut a bit more.

I’ve taken down several dozen standing-dead in just the last couple years, and probably close to 300 over the years. It used to be I’d lose control of an occasional one, ‘cause that’s how standing-dead can be… usually premature hinge failure or unexpected twist causing hinge failure. It wasn’t a big deal because I’m workin’ in a woodlot where the only thing I could damage was me, but then you have the extra work caused from falling where not intended to deal with. A bit over a year ago I started “pulling” near every one (the only exception is if it’s obviously leaning exactly where I want it to drop… that’s rare) and haven’t lost control of a single one since… every one has fallen right on the mark, even when the hinge fails.

 

[haveawoody]

Whitespider,

So your identical to me for standing dead.
Only difference is you have a vehicle to mount the winch on.
I end up having to carying battery, power winch and loop chain, have thought about having something i can avoid playing battery charge and carry for years.
Just never get around to it, but every time i carry them i think about it LOL

For sure a couple of those escape trees and you really start rethinking how to remove them without removing yourself.
When i first starting cutting it was live trees so little to no chance for things getting crazy, then onto dead trees and the live tree habbits just follow.
After the first uncontrolled rotten dead tree dropped about 50 trees in i had a total rethink about them.
Looking back i was a very lucky person on the first 50 dead ones i dropped with no more than 1 semi close limb drop to the side of me.

I hear you on the power lines, nothing more fun than limiting your options even more on a tree that is already limited with options.

I've had a couple of rotten hinge crumbles since i stated with this technigue but with the winch having some tension before they went i would call them semi uncontrolled.
No fun still fell cutting while this happens though.

 

[Whitespider]

Something else I might add...
Notice I don't rig the tree all that high up... there's a reason for that (although the bigger the tree, the higher I rig for leverage). The lower you rig, the shorter the pull at the pulling machine (whatever it is)... and the shorter the pull, the more control you have... and you can pull faster. That makes a big difference when using something that pulls relatively slow, like a winch or come-a-long. In that drop my truck only moved about 10 feet and the tree was on the ground... yet the cable stayed tight near all the way down.

 

[rwoods]

We are blessed in my area. Any tree with a fall path that might hit a power line or anything owned by the power company, it just takes a phone call and they'll put it on the ground for you without cost to you. If it is a hazard tree, they'll also buck it to your reasonable specs, grind and haul the brush. Ron

 

[rwoods]

rwoods,

Well I'm probably pretty close to 5d, I've never measured the cut afterwards but it's no big angle.
Less than an inch on a 3ft tree.
On the dead and dying i tend to leave a bit more meat on the hinge with the finish of the cut 1/2" higher than you would with a live tree, i guess that habbit is from having a few hinge crumbles over the years.

Then using another tree i winch the beast to the ground well away from it.
Much like Whitespider has in his elm drop, just add some distance replace truck with a big tree and 10t winch.
When they come down I'm probably 50 further away than the top and behind a tree

That is the usual plan but sometimes the tree didnt get the paperwork

Some may call me a ninny but I have been known to hide behind the best available tree as well although it is sometimes hard to find a close one that is broad enough. Be safe. Ron

 

[haveawoody]

rwoods,

Lol it's a time i become a tree hugger.

Good place to be also, most of the dead trees come down and become just a big pile of firewood on impact.
Others seem to explode on imact and spread flying wood all over.

 

[haveawoody]

rwoods,

Lucky you with the power lines and company that comes and does all that for you.
Kind of makes you think about bark ringing all the ones you want taken down for you a year in advance

Our service happens here about 1 day after the tree has fallen on the line.

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

We are blessed in my area. Any tree with a fall path that might hit a power line or anything owned by the power company, it just takes a phone call and they'll put it on the ground for you without cost to you. If it is a hazard tree, they'll also buck it to your reasonable specs, grind and haul the brush. Ron

They'll do that around here too.

Some may call me a ninny but I have been known to hide behind the best available tree as well although it is sometimes hard to find a close one that is broad enough. Be safe. Ron

All right I will! NINNY! j/king!

 

[NDtreehugger]

I need to take down about 25 or 30 this week end

All dead elms, problem is the wires are right in line with the tops of the trees.
All trees will need to be cabled and pulled to the road.

Ill see if I can get some images.

 

[Whitespider]

Wires? In North Dakota?
What? Did they bring in electricity after they found oil? :msp_tongue:

 

[NDtreehugger]

Wires? In North Dakota?
What? Did they bring in electricity after they found oil? :msp_tongue:

Yup;

Most of the wires are under ground, hmm, If I can remember,,,
North, south wires are under ground east west above.

This may not apply to all areas but that’s how it is around here.

I guess North Dakota is smarter then the average, we never have power outages, except when they divert electricity to Canada, sometimes our brothers to the north need some extra juice.

 

[chucker]

Wires? In North Dakota?
What? Did they bring in electricity after they found oil? :msp_tongue:

you know its kinda funny! with all those state trees in north dakota, the ones that seem to stay in place is the ones that are tied to the ground with heavy black wire coated in rubber so it dont rust!!!! the other odd thing ive noticed driving across the windy state is the biggest majority of the trees are along the highways an back roads?? go figure? electricty also??? the next thing will probably be internet service?? lol

 

[haveawoody]

NDtreehugger,

We had electricity here for a while.
Had a generator power lines the entire setup.

One day when i turned my TV on and forgot to turn it off the hamster died of exhaustion and that was it.
I miss Hammy but i don't miss the daily generator cleanings.

 

[Denis Gionet]

I guess North Dakota is smarter then the average, we never have power outages, except when they divert electricity to Canada, sometimes our brothers to the north need some extra juice.

Thanks fo da juice bro, us hosers up above the 49th plug our block heaters in until June, and start again in September .....

 

[haveawoody]

Denis Gionet,

I've snowmobiled in mid January with 1/2 a windshield in northern ontario.
Someone needs to invent a block heater for humans for that LOL

Ooops i think it's called rum.
Doesn't keep you warm but freezing to death feels better somehow.

 

[missouriboy]

I cut some died standing elm. There are some many died or dieing elm in my area. I hate cutting them down because you dont have much control over the tree. It could pop and go half way through the back cut it and limbs could fall out of the top and smash you into the ground and it is alot harder to aim the tree because the tree is died inside and out and cant really get any hold wood to help guide it. But man does died elm make some of hottest wood around so for some people it worth the high risk.

 

[esshup]

Guys, a big thanks for all the info in the thread. I wish I would have read it sooner. I just finished up cleaning some storm damaged trees on a property, (only somewhere between 150 and 200 trees :msp_w00t and the owner wanted me to cut down the dead trees around his ponds. The dirt guy buried the base of a LOT of trees under 2' of dirt when he built the ponds, and so far 47 trees have died. Red Oak up to 30" dbh, Sugar Maple up to 28" dbh, Pin Oak up to 24" dbh and River Birch up to about 18" dbh. Most trees have been dead for a year, some recently died, some died almost 2 years ago. The Oaks were the worst, branches exploding when they hit the ground into little bitty pieces. We spent more time cleaning up than dropping trees. There's probably 2 ac of grass around each pond, and keeping the place clean was a priority.

I don't know what I was worried about more, the standing dead trees, or the live uprooted leaners that were hung up in other trees. Some of those were really fun to get down, and it wasn't uncommon for some of them to take a few hours to get down on the ground. No room to get equipment in, just had to cut them down, sometimes taking down a few other trees to get them safely on the ground.

I'll now keep a hammer in the "saw box" to tap on the trees. I had 2 that went without any warning, trees that were 24" or so in diameter had only 4"-5" of good wood on the outside.

I am by no means an expert, I feel that I have barely enough knowledge to keep from hurting myself, and I still am on "high alert" when the saw is fired up and put to a vertical tree. The thing that worries me the most is the dead branches falling out of the tree as I'm cutting under them. I don't have that worry in a live tree.

In a previous thread, Steve had good advice on a rope, and that helped get a few persuaded to fall in the right direction, the pully and bull rope was a great help.

I'd say that at least 75% of my cutting is done with my 2 helpers, "myself" and "I". My nephew helped for a few weeks, but he bailed on me, I think the work was too hard for him. My cell phone is on my belt, and someone knows where I'm at, although it might take some searching on the 80 acres to find me.

Enough rambling, thanks again. It's never too late to learn something.

 

[NDtreehugger]

NDtreehugger,

We had electricity here for a while.
Had a generator power lines the entire setup.

One day when i turned my TV on and forgot to turn it off the hamster died of exhaustion and that was it.
I miss Hammy but i don't miss the daily generator cleanings.