Efficient Home Heating

[SmokeyNY]

Here is the situation. My wife and I are looking at buying our first home. One of the candidates is a 1200 square foot 2 story home in Silver Springs NY. Currently the house is heated with fuel oil. As I am tired of being raped on petroleum products every day, I would prefer to heat with wood. The house has two existing masonry chimneys (have not yet been inspected). The fuel oil furnace exhausts through one in an odd configuration. The second chimeny starts on the second floor. Based off of the holes in the floor the wood stove was in the kitchen right in front of the bathroom door and the stove pipe ran through the ceiling, into the master bedroom next to the door and then connected to the chimney.

I believe that I have a few options.
1. Run a wood stove in the kitchen the way it was done originally however, this would make for some tight clearances as well as some fire resistance issues in the floor/ceiling penetrations. I already have an Upland stove that I could use.

2. Tear out the existing furnace and use the masonry chimeny on that side of the house. My problems here are that the chimney may not be suitable for a wood stove. Also depending on the loan I get I may need to have a primary heat source other than wood. Of course this would not hold true in reality.

3. Outdoor wood boiler. My wife does not want a woodstove in the house so this is the next option. I have plenty of room on the lot for one, but I am not sure if I can afford one now. Also wood is not falling from the sky, and I am worried about what I have read about it being a fuel hog.

4. I have also thought about removing the fuel oil, installing propane and then using the wood stove through the side chimeny, but would rather do that as a last resort.

My questions are:
1. Approximately how much does a OWB cost with installation?
2. For those who have one, about how much wood do you burn, and do you use it year round?
3. Any suggestions or recommendations for my situation.

 

[rx7145]

Here is the situation. My wife and I are looking at buying our first home. One of the candidates is a 1200 square foot 2 story home in Silver Springs NY. Currently the house is heated with fuel oil. As I am tired of being raped on petroleum products every day, I would prefer to heat with wood. The house has two existing masonry chimneys (have not yet been inspected). The fuel oil furnace exhausts through one in an odd configuration. The second chimeny starts on the second floor. Based off of the holes in the floor the wood stove was in the kitchen right in front of the bathroom door and the stove pipe ran through the ceiling, into the master bedroom next to the door and then connected to the chimney.

I believe that I have a few options.
1. Run a wood stove in the kitchen the way it was done originally however, this would make for some tight clearances as well as some fire resistance issues in the floor/ceiling penetrations. I already have an Upland stove that I could use.

2. Tear out the existing furnace and use the masonry chimeny on that side of the house. My problems here are that the chimney may not be suitable for a wood stove. Also depending on the loan I get I may need to have a primary heat source other than wood. Of course this would not hold true in reality.

3. Outdoor wood boiler. My wife does not want a woodstove in the house so this is the next option. I have plenty of room on the lot for one, but I am not sure if I can afford one now. Also wood is not falling from the sky, and I am worried about what I have read about it being a fuel hog.

4. I have also thought about removing the fuel oil, installing propane and then using the wood stove through the side chimeny, but would rather do that as a last resort.

My questions are:
1. Approximately how much does a OWB cost with installation?
2. For those who have one, about how much wood do you burn, and do you use it year round?
3. Any suggestions or recommendations for my situation.

A OWB will cost about 8K and use 10-12cord of wood.

I would look into a indoor down draft boiler. That might work better for you.

 

[walexa07]

My opinion only:

Get a free-standing wood stove........read reviews and such. 1200 HSF is not too much and you should easily be able to heat that much with 1 stove, and you should be able to find a good deal on a stove. If you have any $$ left over, add insulation to the home anywhere you can. Insulation only costs you one time..........and from then on saves you money as long as you own that home. If the home is older it may not be insulated well or at all. If it is pier and beam, you can add insulation to the floor and in the attic easily......walls require more work.

Waylan

 

[MJR]

Thinking a head, I like that. Unless the current furnace needs to be replaced, it kills me to say this, I wouldn’t burn wood yet. It sounds like your lady is not on board with the idea. A decent wood stove will run around $1500 and the pipe will be around $1200. The current chimney does not sound like it will work. Unless you have a source of free wood you will be buying 15-18FC. That will set you back around $900. With a new house there will be no shortage of stuff to put money into or projects to work on. Maybe ask to see last years’ fuel oil bills, I could be completely wrong. The money you might save this winter is not worth cooling off your lady. Ride the winter out and start this project in the spring, you have enough on your plate. Good luck.

 

[walexa07]

15-18 FC........that sure is alot of wood for 1200 HSF I would think. 18 FC would be 12 full cords.......is that right?

And although I missed it first time I posted, he already has an Upland stove.

If it were me, I would install that stove, determine the best routing for the flue and do that.

Wife may not like it........how strongly does she oppose? Not trying to sound sexist or whatever........but if it came down to $3k in fuel oil every winter or burning wood I think I could convince my wife we need to heat with wood.

Wood availability and your wood cutting equipment could be another cost to consider..........and of course how long do you plan to stay in this home? Lots of variables to consider here.

Waylan

 

[sdt7618]

Just my few pennies worth, but before you go spending your hard earned on flues/boilers etc etc.. check the insulation first, no point heating the whole ofthe neighbour hood.

Here in Scotland,we have a 7kw wood burner, small by standards, but the heat can effectivly turn our rads off on all but the coldest days. in the spring of last year I insulated the house for next to £250 ( £500) and have saved that and more I would suggest in the first winter in saved heat.

Like mentioned before Insulation is a one of cost, but years of benefit.

Enjoy the new house

 

[SmokeyNY]

Thanks for the responses. I have some access to free wood on my father's land, but I would want to be selective to preserve the property as much as possible. There is also some non standing wood on the property that I could use. I also have a wood stove so I would not have to go out and buy one right away.

The little lady has not been on board with any idea or suggestion I have made lately, and while I don't disagree with her suggestions, they tend to be much more expensive and out of our current range.

As far as the last heating bill is concerned I will definately ask about it. I haven't had the house inspected yet, so I don't know if the furnace needs to be replaced. I do know that the house was built in 1901, and probably lacks sufficient insulation. The windows are also an issue.

2 more questions:
1. What is an indoor down draft boiler, how much would one run, and how is it set up?

2. Would I be able to save any money by buying logs and cutting and splitting myself? I realize that I would have to buy seasoned wood for this winter, but what about next winter?

 

[MJR]

I love old houses. They have personality unlike the new houses being built today. Get the biggest wood stove with glass doors you can find. The wife will like watching the fire (clean glass often). Your Dad will not mind if you cut a few Ash trees if he has them. He had a first house once to. Good luck.

 

[strongback]

I personally think wood is always worth it. Firewood is usually as much about the firewood as it is about the $. Having said that... I have to agree with the common sentiment here in saying that you'll probably have to tackle a couple of other issues first. Like those old windows. 1200 sqare feet should be fairly easy to heat with almost anything but if you've got wind whistling through the house it won't matter how warm it is; it's not going to feel comfortable and you wife is going to say "See, I told you we shouldn't have bothered with this #$%# wood crap!" and you won't get a chance to enjoy firewood again until you move into another house!

I nearly got stuck in this situation myself it was 80 degrees in the house but due to a pesky draft I got nothing but complaints until I sealed up all the windows to eliminate the draft.

 

[SmokeyNY]

I love old houses. They have personality unlike the new houses being built today. Get the biggest wood stove with glass doors you can find. The wife will like watching the fire (clean glass often). Your Dad will not mind if you cut a few Ash trees if he has them. He had a first house once to. Good luck.

I had thought about a nice soapstone later down the road.
Mom and Dad still live in the first house they bought, but living in apartments up past Watertown when they first started out in the '70s they understand.

We both agreed that we don't want oil heat (if you listen to the radio apparently its the intelligent heat) but because her father was lucky enough to be able to get a 1 year old OWB for dirt cheap she thinks we can get the same. I guess we need to do some price checking.

Marriage is an institution, and you know what the say about people in institutions....

 

[ericjeeper]

I agre with most of the above

Tighten the envelope first. Insulation and high quality windows.
An extra 100$ per window should put you into a triple glazed Krypton gas filled glass pack. To me it is worth every penny. Triple pane is the only way to go.

 

[MJR]

I am hoping to get up to my camp just east of Watertown tonight, if work allows me. (Have you ever realized how much work interferes with your personal life?) The current economics those great deals on wood burning equipment are ending fast. If you find a great deal please let us know about it. That is good advice on the windows. I made this mistake a few years ago when I replaced all my windows and doors. BTW you’re a lucky man to have a girl that wants an OWB. That’s the official green light to get one. There must be a way to fit it in with the closing costs of the house. You’re both happy, that doesn’t happen often. My wife and I just make hallway love now – we just say f… you to each other when we pass in the hallway. Good luck.

 

[trimmmed]

15-18 FC........that sure is alot of wood for 1200 HSF I would think. 18 FC would be 12 full cords.......is that right?

And although I missed it first time I posted, he already has an Upland stove.

Well yes, that is right 18 FC equals 12 full cords. However it is also true that 18 FC equals 9 full cords, in fact 18 FC could also be only half a full cord. And it is also obvious that 18 FC could equal 50 full cords.

It really depends on the length of the face cord.

 

[walexa07]

I thought that universally a FC was 16" wood, 8' long, 4' high. I know other lengths can be called a face cord, but in general is what I was speaking of.

Waylan

 

[trimmmed]

I thought that universally a FC was 16" wood, 8' long, 4' high. I know other lengths can be called a face cord, but in general is what I was speaking of.

Waylan

Ah, in that case ( a 16" long FC) Your 18 FC would equal 6 full cords not 12.
You need that third dimension to quantify a face cord.

 

[rx7145]

2 more questions:
1. What is an indoor down draft boiler, how much would one run, and how is it set up?

A indoor downdraft boiler is a boiler that goes inside your house. The hotwater that it makes goes through baseboard heaters or to a water to air heat exchanger. Down draft means that it is efficient because it burns the gasses out of the wood. Also called a gasification boiler. Most all OWB are not gasification. But some of the new ones are.

I have not looked a buying a indoor boiler but it should be much cheaper.

 

[RAYINTOMBALL]

Ah, in that case ( a 16" long FC) Your 18 FC would equal 6 full cords not 12.
You need that third dimension to quantify a face cord.

+1 That's the way I see it.

 

[Zodiac45]

An indoor stove will use about half as much wood as an outdoor. It will cost much less of course too. It's something too think about. I know the little lady is thinking that it's dirtier and that maybe so but that's what the broom/vacume were made for. An indoor unit (wood gasification) boiler is an option but will be in the neighborhood of an outdoor in cost. If you have room in the basement for the wood and easy access too getting it down there, it's a good option and very efficient. Tarm makes a good unit along with others. Here's a link
http://www.woodboilers.com/wood-gasification.asp:cheers:

 

[mga]

replace the oil furnace with a 95% efficient natural gas burner with a/c.

going to propane will kill you financially.

insulate, insulate and insulate the house even more. even a house heated with free wood isn't worth it if it leaks cold air.

then add your wood burner.

why doesn't she want one inside?

 

[tatra805]

my advise

calculate calculate calculate

and consider the fact if investing a huge amount in latest low consumption tech is worth it.

Probably your old oil burner was also high tech 30 years ago....

It would have taken us a 4 times bigger investment to install a woodchip burner (automated as i dont want to shovel when i am 80 years old). The payback period was about 32 years. The warrantee on the burner 20 years.

On top of that woodchips were cheap but doubled price in the past 2 years as demand goes up. We would now have been facing a 40+ year payback time.
= 2x the guaranteed life of the burner.....

In the end we went for a condensing natural gas burner (115% eff). A conventional setup. We invested an extra 10% in isolation (which was double isolation value for the whole house). At 25% of the cost we now are consuming 15$ more per month compared to the offer/calculation of the chipburner company.(expecting that they are positive estimating)
And chip pricing is still rising faster than gas price.

The other 75% sleeps at the bank and covers the 15$ easily by the interests it brings.

We have 2 classic wood stoves installed + own made air circulation circuit, and they will be our main heat source for next winter. Looking at the working hours of the gas burner for last season i expect to at least half it when using the stoves.

As already said many times before, Isolation is the main factor. We have a 1degree celcius heat los/12h with outside temp of -5 degrees. Heat is money so you better keep it inside the house.