epa laws in PA

[Storm56]

Not trolling at all. Being legal at the time of sale has little to do with a stove that may last for 20 or more years. It's a big problem with high emission indoor stoves.......EPA limits on emissions have been in effect for 20 years now but some of these stoves are going to last for decades longer. There needs to be a cut off date.....and there is going to be! It's happening around the country as we type and it is a good thing.

You never answered my question: How far do you go or does it end with the EPA stoves? I have seen your type many times and you always squeal the loudest when the winds of change hit you.

As far as it being a big problem I guess it depends on whose research you believe. I do NOT believe in the govt controlling every aspect of my life and telling me how to live.

By the way I am going to smoke some bologna for the next 12 hours at really low temps, should that be outlawed too?

 

[gwiley]

Both.



For anyone considering an outdoor wood boiler here is a good read:

http://www.woodheat.org/technology/outboiler.htm

This has nothing to do with the encroachment on our rights that the EPA is undertaking. I might be able to understand some concern in very densely populated areas but even then I think they are overstepping. What they are doing impacts even very rural housing and goes beyond ridiculous.

One good forest fire a year or a volcano send more "pollutants" into the air than we can dream of with or without catalytic converters etc.

The bottom line is that wood burning is a net 0 green house gas contributor - the plants that we burn pulled that carbon out of the air to begin with!

If a small region has air quality issues due to geography/topography and population issues then I understand LOCAL regulations, but the EPA is overstepping in a huge way.

 

[603doug]

I would like to see real unbiased numbers on the amount of non complaint heating appliances and what kind of effect neg or pos( yes you can show me all types of data to support your attitude but so can algore). There is another forum (good info source) that everyone who uses a owb or some non Massachusetts approved burner is the cause for every type of pollution problem that going to kill us all. Do not get me wrong I do not want to add problems to the environment that will effect our future on this planet but I also want moderation and deliberate steps that work not like this health care approach that will prove a detriment to our future generations because we like our power and want ways to expand it. Well need to add wood to my "outdoor phase 1 approved boiler"

 

[Slick]

Both.



For anyone considering an outdoor wood boiler here is a good read:

http://www.woodheat.org/technology/outboiler.htm

So if you want the use of non-epa stoves banned how do you suggest the government enforce that? Guess they would be walking into everyone's house? Good luck with that..., people freak when a zoning guy drives past their house and now everyone should let them walk in to look for an EPA stamp on a stove?


By the way TreeCo, what kind of car do you drive? Hope it has the highest emissions rating in existance TODAY or else you might have to sell it....heck my daily driver is an 09' hybrid and the 10' has some new emission checks, guess I should plan on it being illegal soon?

Again I ask, why don't emissions standards make past cars illegal but they should on stoves?

 

[603doug]

You are right this is a wood heat forum but now that there could be many restrictions imposed by an uninformed group we need to be aware as a group to prepare for or accept changes and maybe help in the changes in regs to better tackle the problems than a shotgun approach

 

[Storm56]

This is a wood heat forum and I'm sticking to the subject of wood heat. If you want to spout off about politics there is a political forum here somewhere.....share your angst with them!

Another thing about you guys is that you always want to change the subject when the going gets a little tough. And you still did not answer any of my questions which is no surprise. Maybe you should move to Europe or something, I hear they are all green over there. I will keep my guns, money and freedoms, you can keep the change.

 

[WidowMaker]

In this instance the two are inseperatable...

 

[flotek]

teaching a lefty socialist about common sense and morality is like trying to teach a pig to sing ,it wastes your time... and annoys the pig
if the epa/government said tomorrow all woodburning appliances are banned regardless of if there certifed or not he would be fine with it ,in fact like any good sheep ,he would be fine with whatever king barry or the epa says even if it took away our rights as americans.remember they know whats best for you and your family and are only trying to make the world a happy tolerant place for all trees and slime covered toadstools

 

[wampum]

I sold a lot of stoves in Pa back in the 70's and 80's. Non of them at that time were so called EPA approved,because the EPA had not ruled on it yet. This is almost the same argument as Global Warming. In the early 80's a lot of knowledgeable people claimed that in the end a log rotting in the forest put out as much c02 as a log in a fire,its a natural thing. I heard a professor at Notre Dame say this at a seminar for wood stove dealers. The only problem is the smell or residue from what you burn.I was amazed at the amount of towns out in Colorado where I hunt that have banned burning wood. Most of these towns are over built and tucked into a small mountain area. I can understand why they get upset over burning wood,because they are too crammed together. Burning toxic stuff like ties is not a good idea,that only hurts good burners that burn good dried wood. At one time I could literally pee in my front yard and never be seen. We use to look when a car went by,because we were lucky to see 2 or 3 a day. Now we might get that many a minute. I burn 2 stoves one is EPA approved the other is a 30 year old Fisher. I have never had a complaint from any neighbor,several times they have commented on the nice smell a wood burner puts out. 60 years ago,we had a lot of coal burners,I have noticed a few coming back. People have to have heat,I am with you guys let the feds butt out and leave the rural areas alone. However,how many think they are going to go away? They are not,I wish I was wrong but big brother has landed,and we are all going to pay the price,just because they think they know best. Its going to get exciting boys,global warming,health care,epa,you name it,its just a big power and money grab. They are all rip-offs,but somehow I think we are still going to pay.

 

[Storm56]

I would just like clarify my position on this issue. I could support some COMMON SENSE type of regulation GOING FORWARD from where we are today. I have no problems with the banning of garbage burning, burning of man made woods such as plywood, pressure treated woods, masonite etc. I do not even mind that some REASONABLE type of standards are applied to FUTURE wood stoves. There are settings in which OWB's are not practical, I understand that. But to take the big sloppy paint brush that the liberal tree hugging gore/obama fans want to use to paint us all with is RIDICULOUS.

There are plenty of democracies that the liberal left wing loons have already ruined. This country was supposed to be different. READ OUR CONSTITUTION. If you do NOT like it here the way it is, then no one is stopping YOU from LEAVING. Go live somewhere that supports your position. LEAVE US ALONE. If you really dig on this crap of saving the world from pollution and global warming, then go to CHINA and preach. They spew out more PM in the air in one day than all the wood stoves in the US do in several years.

I for one am sick and tired of the govt telling me what is good for me and how to live my life. READ the STUPID regulation in this legislation that is being CRAMMED down our throats. If this GARBAGE is passed, you can be fined $1000 to as much as $2500 PER day or spend 90 days in jail for each day that you burn your stove if it does not conform to their RIDICULOUS standards. You can beat up old ladies, rob and steal, use illegal drugs just to mention a few things and get less punishment than burning your wood stove for 2 weeks. That my friends is RETARDED LEFT WING LUNACY at it FINEST.

 

[chugbug]

I for one am sick and tired of the govt telling me what is good for me and how to live my life. READ the STUPID regulation in this legislation that is being CRAMMED down our throats. If this GARBAGE is passed, you can be fined $1000 to as much as $2500 PER day or spend 90 days in jail for each day that you burn your stove if it does not conform to their RIDICULOUS standards. You can beat up old ladies, rob and steal, use illegal drugs just to mention a few things and get less punishment than burning your wood stove for 2 weeks. That my friends is RETARDED LEFT WING LUNACY at it FINEST.
__________________
Good point I agree !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Windwalker7]

Maybe he should change his name to Eco TreeCo!

 

[flotek]

fortunately for some members they are allowed to spew their nonsense and arent banned for there ideology on here ,simply because stupidity is not a ban-able offense.as mentioned a little common sense is in order sadly our current administration does not have any ..obviously if your burning trash ,truck tires ,dead raccoons and smoking up entire city blocks then that is an issue that needs addressed ,you simply find the bonehead and take it on a case by case basis you dont fine and regulate and basically ruin it for everyone even those who are responisble .

 

[Slick]

wish I had my camera with me today, drove past two house with some type of indoor fire place/stove etc who's chimney was lower than my OWB and was smoking more than my OWB even at start up...and I heat two buildings with mine...

 

[bore_pig]

Maybe he should change his name to Eco TreeCo!

:agree2:
Old stoves can be burned just as clean as anything else.

 

[Slick]

Point is it's user error, not equipment error....you can't idiot proof the world....and nobody wants the government trying to....

 

[Slick]

Not debating selling EPA rated stoves, you said previously purchased OWB should be EPA certified or banned, that is just silly, did they do that in 1989 with indoor wood stoves?

Still waiting to hear what vehicle you drive????

 

[flotek]

i suppose all cars boats planes helicopters weedeaters lawnmowers atvs etc. made before 1989 should be destroyed becuase they certainly dont meet the strict current standards according to a government agency ...and all this at taxpayers expense of coarse ..so where does the madness end ?*you dont throw the baby out with the bath water
sorry for your stupid neighbor but if someone is being foolish and irresponsible then yes fine them or whatever ,but you dont force everyone in existence to succomb to becuase theres a couple bad apples who burn tires in their stoves .

 

[Slick]

Vehicles have set the standard for emissions and cause more issues to the environment and our lungs than burning of anything that grows in nature ever could....so yeah, it would be good for you to not talk about it, won't go well for your theory that new emissions laws should effect previously purchased equipment...


Just put my last load of the day in the OWB...watched a nice belch of whatever come out of my neighbors heating oil burning house....something tells me that wasn't just heat I saw coming out...yeah, my wood smoke is bad for us

To bad the forests don't have lobbyist like the auto makers and oil companies do, their new emissions standards don't effect past purchases right treeco....

 

[Windwalker7]

I mentioned earlier I'm not interested in discussing vehicles.

Yeah.......wouldn't want to put your foot in your foot in your mouth or eat your own words.


We all understand why you won't go there.


Interested in discussing chain saws then?



How eco friendly is your two stroke chainsaw? Any visible smoke or odor? What about noise pollution?


Would you take offense if some Eco Whacko came on here and told you that all chainsaws should be banned?

You could cut with an axe or manual saw, they'd say.