Fall Or Prune

[ROLLACOSTA]

how many of you guys would rather dismantle trees ,rather than prune...personaly iwould rather fell ..as i get sick to death of being asked to do silly detrimental things too trees...when i go to bid a prune job its like a battle of minds no i will not top !no i do not think removing 50%of the tree is good idea...no there is nothing wrong with your tree [but customer still wants a stupid thing carried out too it]....i get the feeling tree owners dont like honest proffesional advice..so id rather dismantle any day ...if i hired an electrician to do some wireing for me i would listern and take advice let the man do his job properly..why dont tree owners listern too pro arborists?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Because you, or we, don't let them know that we are the pros.

Have you ever taken any sales classes? Once I started to understand sales, I made more sales. Sales is just as much a science and skill as climbing.

Tom

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

there's a saying that's been going around for a number of years.

You can remove a tree once, or care for it for a lifetime.

Don Blair talks abou woring in trees that his Dad worked on, and he knows people who have been up in them since then.

The truely sucessfull companies I work with have builed on the revolving account, or clientel model.

If th bulk of your jobs are removals, then you will allways be chaceing bids around. It's hard to call up the client from 2-3 years ago and say it is time to look at the property to see if any trees need removing, but calling the satisfied client to schedule a survey for pruning usually will fly.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I enjoy doing both equally as well, although trimming takes a lot more effort.

 

[B.Secord]

Well stated JPS and Rocky, in my region, pruning or removing IS DIRECTLY a result of the customers knowledge. The other things that ultimatly determine the work to be done are species of tree and enviormental conditions. Like you guys it seemslike a great task to educate every prospective client, but sometimes you can only plant the seed of thought, sometime all you can do is walk away.

 

[Lumberjack]

I would rather trim most trees than remove them, as you can get repeat buisness year after year.

I like removals also, as they require less effort and less thinking (normally).


Also, when you remove a tree, there is no real "product" to see, as the tree is gone. On a trim, everyone that drives by can see how good the tree looks, and that can be like its own bill board, exspecially in prominant places (banks, upper class houses). The people ask the customer what is the deal with there trees, and they tell them about the tree service. Hence a bill board.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

ROCKY i can only salute you as you have said everything ive i have been thininking for years...from now on if they want a monkey ill give them a monkey topping etc is going on the menu.from now on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes sir no sir thats my crew..you know best sir ..im only a qualified ..experienced arborist

 

[rborist1]

:Eye:

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i try to ask "Why"?; and educate/modify people's quality identifiers of a healthy tree or situation; presenting options; but still a touch of 'detailed' appearance/ordering to human eyes in moderation as some kinda tailored mix.

i think some of the ideas we speak of are unpopular/ new to people; and a lil'education can even give them ammunition when the brutha'n'law wants to know why the were stupid enough to pay to have that done etc. That being the less common pattern, could get booed years later and someone else recomended by friend etc.; and ya don't get another try, to modify their quality identifiers another notch...

Or something like that
:alien:

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

im sorry carl your way off ,like rocky said people /tree owners think a good prune means half the tree gone and a pretty shape.thats not arboriculture as you know[ihope]like i once said if the likes of ISA promote proper tree care i will join untill then ..ill turn monkey

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
Carl, you sound so idealistic. Unfortunately, you wrote that post as if you were actually telling somebody something. Nope, the properly pruned tree is the one that nobody would even recognize as being trimmed. It's the raped, gutted tree with all the big 'shiners' that the typical homeowner will notice. Then they say "Boy, somebody did a nice job trimming that tree".

UHHH.


I bid/got a prune job today. The tree is an obvious mess as it has never been trimmed or deadwooded. There is a huge amout of deadwood, which when removed, gives the tree a clean, natural look. The customer at that job knows a lot of people. When the tree goes from looking like a big bush of deadwood, back to a green, natural tree, she will notice an "improvement".


So a tree that isnt trimmed has alot of deadwood (from shading out from its very full canopy), but when you trim it you shouldnt notice that it has been trimmed (the deadwood gone?)? Sounds so oxymoronish.

 

[Stumper]

Brian, Behold. A national group trying to educate--Arboristsite .com. Yes the group is small but progress is being made -one person at a time. I love pruning. My customers listen to my advice. Does everyone who calls listen? No. Is all of my pruning "best for the tree"? No-there are things like fruit production and clearance needs that subordinatre the best interest of the tree (pruning for fruit isn't supposed to clobber the tree mind you but I do reduce height and spread etc for increased fruit quality and ease of harvest.). You are stuck in the subcontractor's role and can't do diddly to educate(or at least it seems so.). I dress neatly, speak well and try to keep learning all the time . If I don't know the answer I say so. IF I think I know what is happening with the customer's tree then I explain it and advise. People DO listen!

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

well ive seen about 10 jobs today and im sick of acountants,computer geeks,garbage men etc telling me what needs doing to there trees....i dont go to a doctor and tell him what needs doing to me i ask him or her for proffesional help/advice..not so in this industry...why is the question i ask???..i think its all to do with ROCKYS last thread ..too many hacks /idiots who cannot sharpen a chain...ruinning the industry

 

[Lumberjack]

I am carrying the torch.

I dont fight with my customers as I dont have too. I try to increase the knowledge with every customer. I do my best to be an arborist, I facilitate the relationship between my customers, and there trees.

Today I made a compromise with the customers. They wanted to raise, gut, flush cut, and paint the wounds. I educated them, and raised the canopy off there house and drive (it needed it), they wanted one limb removed that I wouldnt have removed for the raising job. The best for the tree and the best for the customer is what I try to obtain.

If you fight with the customer then you are gonna make them find someone who will be there monkey. If a customer wants something done that isnt in the best intrest of the tree, then I ask them what is bothering them with that part of the tree. I figure out what there problem is, and figure out how to make it better for both them and the tree.

For me it isnt that taxing, mentally.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Lumberjack


I like removals also, as they require less effort and less thinking (normally).

Ya think so, eh? I don't ever seem to get those 'normal' takedowns. Maybe its a Mississippi thang...

There are a lotta fools out there, Brian... ya outta not let it get to you. You'd be wasting a lot of mental anguish. Jus' be the best you can be.

In the top of the tree, there ain't no arseholes...

 

[JonnyHart]

Not so much wood to pick up when ya prune too. we don't got a loader

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Ya think so, eh? I don't ever seem to get those 'normal' takedowns. Maybe its a Mississippi thang...

I am getting my fair share of heafty take downs.

What I meant was that on a removal, you can normally see most of what you need to do (plans do change sometimes when you get up there). "Ok on those limbs we need to rig from above, tip tie and lift. On those we can just go out and drop sections with a butt tie around the limb. On those we need to just make a peel cut, and swing them to the other side of the tree."

Whereas on trims you get up there, then you see what you need to do, rather than on the ground. Then you have to do that stuff, and then you see more. Then while your up there, if you make any big cuts, you have to decide how that will effect the tree as a whole, the landscaping under it, and all that jazz.

Removals are more straight forward, IMO.

PS I am fixin to call you.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I guess i'm lucky. My clentel hires me for my treephys knowledge as much as my climb/rig skills. I'm allowed to talk to thier clients to alter the specs and add on work.

I often hear "your the expert, do what needs to be done!"

Though I did have a call the othere day to remove some "big trees" for house construction "you can take them a way and sell the wood"

Oh, they are like 25 in dbh silver maple.

He got upset when i said it's all scrap and not worht a thing to me. Can't win them all.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
In the top of the tree, there ain't no arseholes...

Does that include the tree I was in the top of today?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
Does that include the tree I was in the top of today?

No Mike, your the whole donkey, toto burro