falling pine trees- please help

[dorota]

hi,
we have perimeter of our property lined by pine trees ranging from ~15 - 25'.
all was well until recently when one of the trees began to lean on the tree behind it. The roots were never lifted up but the trunk was breaking about the level of the ground. Some weeks later another tree was flat on the grass with its roots still in ground (not lifted like one sees when the tree fals due to wind or such). The property is fenced and no dumping of any chemical materials ior foul play is possible. Now another tree is leaning towards the ground at ~ 80 degrees. the other two trees I mentioned had to be cut and I found it peculiar that the cross sections of their trunks do not have circular outlines but strikingly elongated ovals. Someone had an idea that the wire baskets may have been left on at the time of planting and it is only now that the trees overgow their supply delivered from roots. Any thoughts of possible reasons for the falling? These trees do not look otherwise sick - they are nice and green and just keep leaning and falling down out of the blue. How can we save the next candidate as well as the rest of them? Many thanks. Dorota.Ps if it would help I will be glad to send a picture.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Yes, pics please.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Send a picture, but it sounds like the twine was left wrapped around the trunk at the time of planting.
For some years, and still a bit in recent history, they used synthetic twine that doesn't break down.
Dig down carefully and check the trees for indications of girdling at the base.

 

[dorota]

pictures regarding falling pines

here are the pictures. thank you

 

[Ekka]

Hi Dorota

I mucked around with one of the relevant pics.

The red lines show a few things.

Something where the shovel is restricted outward growth, causes cambium restriction, no passage between roots and leaves.

The other red arrows, no root flare! You'd expect to see some roots flaring off, you've dug about a 1' deep ... got zip.

Tree roots work like ropes. If they're restricted like some-one planting in a pot in the ground they will lose their strength. I don't know what or how they were planted but there is something definately wrong. So the roots have been able to a certain degree feed the tree but they have no structural worth. As the tree have got larger they have been unable to do their job.

You should be able to dig around the others carefully to look for that root flare ... if you find more of what you have photographed ... you'd best be getting bids for some tree work.

 

[treeseer]

You should be able to dig around the others carefully to look for that root flare ... if you find more of what you have photographed ... you'd best be getting bids for some tree work.

Ekka's onto the problem here, but there's a lot you can do before calling for a pro on site. Definitely try to find the flare on all your trees--see "New Tree Planting" in the link below. Then take pics and post them here.

Hopegully you wil only need the kind of tree work that can repair some of the defects and keep your trees. If not, it'll be time for the saw and replacement, and we don't want to go there do we?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I agree with these guys, your problem is the planting depth. The trees were planted too deep!
It is a very common problem that starts in the nursery, where weeds are cultivated in rows between the trees. Each time the cultivator goes down the row, a pile of soil ends up on the roots and trunk. During the 6 to 8 years the tree in growing in the nursery, it gets buried deeper and deeper. Then the tree is balled up and you are told to plant the tree at the level of the top of the ball, which is now about a foot too deep!
At planting time, the ball should have been opened up and had all the soil carefully scraped off the top of the ball until the root flare was exposed. Then the tree is planted so the flare is level with the top of the hole.

What you can do now, is to dish the soil out and way from the trees. You'll need to dig carefully down and expose the root flare. Expect them to be about a foot deep. This is a tough task with pines because of the low branches.
Arborists use a tool called an air spade, which shoots a stream of air that blows away soil, but won't harm roots or trunks. It has a long barrel that allows it to poke in between branches and can dish out trees like this in about 5 minutes or less each.

Once exposed, the trunks will have roots wrapped around them that will need to be cut to prevent further strangulation of the tree.

Trees showing signs of stress from planting depth are hard to save. If you expose healthy looking trees that were planted too deep, the odds of saving them is much better, but you could still loose them.

Look for an ISA Certified Arborist who has an air spade and is familiar with planting depth issues.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

In the picture Ekks highlighted, it shows about what your other trees will look like after using the air spade. In fact, in the picture, it still doesnt' look like you're down to the root flare. If this were a living tree I was trying to save, instead of a stump, I spade down deeper to expose the flare and dish it out a little more.

 

[dorota]

MANY THANKS + more pics of a fallen pine stump

So far we managed to expose the underground portion of a stump in search for a root flare. Wonder what you think. While I plan to look for a specialist with air shovel, i would like to get your opinion on what trees (among evergreens only) are most tolerant of shallow soil on a ledge - I have heard that blue spruce is. What is the optimal time of the year for planting a tree and how old a tree has best chance of survival ( naturally would prefer a tree that is at least 5 - 6 feet tall). And most of all thanks to everyone who took his/her time and expertise to reply to my posting! Your advice and links provided were invaluable. Some more pics below.
Dorota.

 

[Vicki]

Wow! This is really great information and helps me with my dogwood tree. I'm thinking maybe I need to raise my dogwood a bit higher--maybe it is planted too deep. This posting is greatly appreciated by this huge novice with only two trees in her yard. Thank you.

 

[treeseer]

So far we managed to expose the underground portion of a stump in search for a root flare. Wonder what you think.

I think the twine is the problem; pines will tolerate SOME burying. Essential to expose each flare and cut all the twine.

You want to plant a 6' spruce on a rocky ledge? Buy a plastic one.

Seriously, soil depth is the criterion. Dig a hole where you want the tree, down to rock, and post a picture of that.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

... pines will tolerate SOME burying...

I disagree.
We have a lot of pines planted in SE WI, but few do well in the long run. Spraying for needle disease is a full time job and profitable business for many. The deal, in my opinion, is that 95% of the pines being sprayed for these diseases are suffering from them as a secondary diseases, secondary to planting depth stress.
Once there is soil against the trunk, roots will grow there and cause Stem Girdling Roots.
So, no, pines are not especially tolerant of burying, at least in my observation. Lowland species are somewhat tolerant of root burying, but none of the trees I've worked on are tolerant of SGRs.

 

[tenacrewoods]

I'm definitely no expert But I've lived in Piney Woods of Texas for 45 yrs,
and we have literaly thousands of pines sprout up every year.They are
definitely too deep, look like 6" to 8" maybe or more from the flare.Even in
excellant soil here feeder roots are only a couple inches from surface and some exposed.Sorry I don't know how to ship a tree safely because we
bulldoze an acre or two worth every few years,from saplings to 10' tall.
Oh yaa! and pesky Sweetgums [ liquidambar up North ] also.Hope I don't
offend anyone by whacking all these trees but they do popup like weeds
rond here.If I was physically able I'd ship um all up north and make a fortune.

Mike

 

[Ekka]

What are they sprouting from, old stumps or seeds?

 

[tenacrewoods]

Windblown seeds,birds and rain,even got about 15 feeder off my Bradfford
Pear [fruitless type] this year.Tring to learn to propagate from root cuttings
so I can place them along drive.

Mike