Fellow Fathers - Advice on teaching a son,s

[StihlyinEly]

This brings up one of the complaints I had with our local Boy Scout troops - Even Eagle candidates were not allowed to use power tools.

One thing I didn't see mentioned - Get them hauling around the biggest saw they can immediately. When you go to the woods let them carry the saw, preferably with PPE. There is some experience gained in just learning to correctly handle a non-running saw.

Show them how, and get them to sharpen the chains. They will probably get a couple of nicks doing this and gain more respect for a sharp chain.

If you eat things like pork shoulder or full bone-in ham an excellent memorable visual clip is to tie one of the hams down and then show them how quickly a chainsaw will go thru one. Sort of like "this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs".

I would recommend MINIMAL ear protection the first couple of times they actually hold a running so they learn the deafening loudness of a WOT saw.

After they learn to carry, sharpen, fuel and hold saws let them join the "girl scouts" and make some cookies on logs set at an appropriate cutting height off the ground so the logs don't move, and the boys don't hit the ground with the saw chain. With full PPE, including good boots.

Then of course you have to buy them each their own saw. The 13 yr old will probably be able to handle a 441.

+1, except for the last sentence. A 13-year-old and a 70+ cc saw, in the opinion of many, won't mix well. If by "handle" you mean "carry," then I'll buy that. But IMO it'd take quite the strapping young 13er to cut safely and effectively with it.

 

[Banacanin]

Noone can tell you when your sons are old enough.... That's very dependent on their maturity and ability to follow direction/understand consequences. Some are ready at 9, some not ready at 32. Youtube holds the proof.


J

+10

some people, and anyone near them, might be better off if they never have access to a machine, or pulley, of any kind. These are the people who don't ask questions and try to wing it. This is a classic example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwyinb8YdYA

Now I'm not trying to make light of something serious by pointing out a funny video where by some miracle no one get hurt. The truth is with a chainsaw you are lucky if you just get hurt.

The OP can print these out and hand them to his sons so they can see what happens when you cut a corner, or not thinking about you are doing. It don't even take a second to make an error and it takes about a minute to bleed to death.

check these recent headlines out. A lot of this could have been avoided if more dads taught there sons how to do things properly.

http://austriantimes.at/news/Genera...aves_son's_life_after_freak_chainsaw_accident
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Home/Mansufferschestinjuriesinchainsawaccident.htm
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...cuts-off-leg-with-chainsaw-20100318-qhmw.html

 

[pjwoolw]

I started at about 10 or 11 with an old (new then) Homelite. My father was never any good them with so I took the reins after awhile. Since we had a need when my boy was about fifteen I got new saws and told him one was his. Went through the safety drill and such with him. He is real careful regardless. We took down twelve good sized pines (the evil beetle) that summer. Limbed, bucked and chipped all the debris. He did real well. Haven't had the opportunity the past few summers to get back to cutting. This summer we can get back to it. With the help of this site I've learned allot more about safety and passed it on to him. But everybody isn't cut out for this kind of work. I've found that passing safety tips via e mail works pretty well.

 

[Trigger Man]

I got to say that most people think to start out a young person with a small lightweight saw but in my experience they can be the most dangerous. Especially with a non experienced user.

 

[caotropheus]

What's the rush? My boys (13 and 16) help with all sorts of equipment and tools, including firearms but the chainsaws are off limits until they have sufficient body mass to safely handle the saw.

There is just no substitute for a minimum degree of raw strength and mass when handling a chainsaw. I agree that it doesn't take a LOT, but there is a minimum.

My boys will need to tip the scales at 130lbs (+/-) or demonstrate sufficient upper body strength and coordination before I will hand them a chainsaw.

I agree with all the aspects discussed throughout this thread, including minimal body mass, strength and coordination, protection, safe saw operation and injury. My eldest boy is 11 years old and his middle name is Mr. "Endurance Coordinated Strength" and I do not allow him to operate a saw.

Age is also a critical aspect, because we are here discussing minimal age and there might be legal issues related with this discussion. Every country has its how laws for minimal working age, and for sure for operation of power equipment. Another aspect is that we should not discuss this "my son's minimal age to operate a saw" publicly because of legal implications. Who ever wants to nail us legally can come here to the forum and take all the information they want.



Now about body mass. gwiley you mentioned 130 pounds, translating to intelligible language, something like 58 kg, to operate a chainsaw. But I'm adult, and that's my weight fully dressed with protective gear (including helmet with screen), holding a chainsaw fully loaded with bar, chain, oil and fuel, as well as wearing accessory gear like belt, wedges and Axe. Shall I be baned from operating a chainsaw and only use an hand saw?! Or shall I load my pockets with stones to get to the "130" mark ?!

 

[rxe]

One further point - kids tire really easily. All of the mistakes I've made with saws have been when I was tired and starting to lose concentration. When mine is bigger (he's only 7 now), I'll start him on logs in a saw buck, but he'll only do a few cuts to start with, and build from there.

 

[gwiley]

Now about body mass. gwiley you mentioned 130 pounds, translating to intelligible language, something like 58 kg, to operate a chainsaw. But I'm adult, and that's my weight fully dressed with protective gear (including helmet with screen), holding a chainsaw fully loaded with bar, chain, oil and fuel, as well as wearing accessory gear like belt, wedges and Axe. Shall I be baned from operating a chainsaw and only use an hand saw?! Or shall I load my pockets with stones to get to the "130" mark ?!

I am willing to bet 130 pounds on you is very different from the 130 pounds on a teen ager. I have noticed that older guys that are well conditioned pack a lot more punch per pound than kids do.

That number was something that I came up with while I was typing because it is far enough away from where the boys are now that I don't have to think about it for a while - I weigh 250lbs and it looks like the boys are on their way to my size frame.

I guess my point was that the operator should have enough mass to comfortably operate the saw, I don't know what that number is but I am pretty sure that the saw should not weigh 20% of what the operator does.

The real answer is that the responsible father should carefully consider what his son is capable of and what the risks are and take a decision about handing him a saw only when the risks fall within an acceptable (to him) range. We shouldn't just shove a saw at a kid and hope for the best.

 

[Daniel P.]

I got my first saw when I was 14 a box store mccoullogh, then upgraded to a 260 pro at 15. I grew up around saws and firearms and all kinds of machinary, I was running the skid steer at 13 and the sawmill by 15. Yes, accidents can happen I was cutting alone at 16 when my saw kicked back and sliced my shin. Funny thing is I went ahead and finished my cut on the log before I shut the saw off and inspected the wound, drove back to the house and had dad take me to the hospital for 20 stitches. I learned from that experience and won't make that mistake again.

I think the biggest thing about running a saw is maturity, at 17 me and two friends would cut 4-6 cord of wood a day, I would fell the trees in the creek and one friend would pull them out in the field and the other would follow behind and cut them up, once we went a ways we would go back and load or help cut.

So to the OP I would make sure that your boys are working with you as much as possible, explain what you are doing and why, the suggestions about starting on clean logs on a stand sounds good, I started cutting on our scrap pile from the sawmill.

 

[stipes]

I wish I could help you on this.....

My Dad would drag me in the woods when I was big enough to walk,,,set me on a stump along ways from a tree he was falling....When I was around 7 I dragged brush that I could handle and pilled it as good as I could,,and he and my Grandpa was the type,,you pilled brush neatly or you got your butt reamed out.....He had this rh start Mcc he let me start for him and I would put both feet on the handle and pull....When he bought the pro Mcc 55 that was the saw I learned on....I was around,13 years old..He let me buck with it but not limb...He was by my side the first time I felled my first tree.....After that I always felled anything here,,,and yes,,he always was by my side....A many years went by and the last tree we fallled together was this monster red oak and we was using the 028 super with the 18 inch bar and had to take one cut and switch to the other side to go tru....Still he never left my side and when I cut he always said,,I hit you on the back you run,,,,we cut alot of widow makers....
We fished,,,we hunted,,,we did alot of things together....The thing about that man and my Grandpa,,,they took the time to teach me,,,I didnt sit in front on a tv,,,compt. I went with them,,and I thank God for each min. of it.....

 

[adirondackhick]

Hello,
There has already been much said, but I felt like chiming in anyway. Safety apparral. I am a husky guy, but I have a little MS170 for my wifes first saw, and that is what I started my daughter with at 11. My son is still a little young yet. Obviously, I was right there in both cases, but that little saw will cut well when sharp, and if it is pushed on it will bog down. It is very light and well balanced. By no means an intimitading unit. Anyway good luck with teaching the safety aspects first then moving in to cutting. I always let them watch me do it while explaining how what I was doing was working, then gave them the "wheel" so to speak..
Have fun!!

 

[pioneerguy600]

I just read this entire thread and have to say there are some very good posts and points raised by everyone. I started using a 30 lb chainsaw at around 9 years of age, but the old saws turned slower RPM back then and did not jump or kick upwards as voilently as the fast turning saws that followed.
I believe the age to start a young fella is between 5-7 years of age, not to run or use the saw but to start working at manual tasks if they are willing. This builds a lot of important features for future involvement with machinery. It takes strength, coordination and balance control to run a chainsaw, safety is also learned through exposure to the operating theatre/ work site.
I got to work with my father and his brothers in the woods and with my grandfather and uncle on my mothers side, around the farm. I showed the interest and they put me to work at small mundane tasks of piling brush and whatever chunks of wood I could handle. It is surprising how fast a young fellow will develop if he works at some physical labour from an early age. By the time I was 13 I weighed 165 lbs. and was doing a mans days of work. Loading bales of hay off the fields onto a hay wagon back then that weighed 30-50 lbs ea. built up some body strength, 500-600 each day until 2500 were in storage in each barn during the summer got you in shape for the fall wood cutting season.
If the fellow has the strength and coordination, can demonstrate that he is safe , has been around and observed, taught how to use said equipment safely then the age is not carved in stone. Once he is started out operating then watch him closely for a period of time and correct any shortcomings that show up, at some piont you just have to let them go and they will learn as they go, we all did.
Pioneerguy600