Finishing Question???

[czeigler]

I would like to finish a 2" piece (slab) of pine that i have left over from milling boards for my basement and need some help with what to use.

Do you just polyurethane it or is there something better to use?

The rest of the wood in the basement is natural, no finish applied.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[BobL]

I would like to finish a 2" piece (slab) of pine that i have left over from milling boards for my basement and need some help with what to use.

Do you just polyurethane it or is there something better to use?

The rest of the wood in the basement is natural, no finish applied.

Any help would be appreciated.

Telling us what you are going to with it will help narrow down the choices.

 

[czeigler]

Yeah, i guess that would help.

I would like to make a side table. The slab is about 4-5 feet in length 18-24" wide.

 

[zopi]

b'ar grease?


If it isn't meant to be fine furniture...if it's gonna be every day living stuff,
i like regular old polyurethane..maybe a light color stain...I did a little cypress
with some honey oak stain the other day...pretty!

If it's something special..it may get a little exotic...

one of the weird ones is kiwi shoe polish...don't laugh...get some tan,
and apply it to a bare piece of scrap wood that has a little grain..then try rubbing that with a bit of tung oil..and another coat of wax...but you wouldn't
wanna eat off of it...

there are guys on here who know ALOT more about finishing wood than I...

 

[stonykill]

I would like to finish a 2" piece (slab) of pine that i have left over from milling boards for my basement and need some help with what to use.

Do you just polyurethane it or is there something better to use?

The rest of the wood in the basement is natural, no finish applied.

Any help would be appreciated.

Poly will hold up well, but I hate the stuff. It dries SLOOOWWW, and even in satin looks like plastic. Wood should not look like plastic.

The other reason to avoid poly is if it gets damaged, there really isn't a good fix, other than redoing the entire piece. With laquer you can spot touch up.

The following are my recomendations,

I use laquer. Catalized laquer, probably nothing you can buy. But I have used the nitrocelulose laquer that is in home depot sometimes. Sprays incredible, flows like there is no tomorrow, and is a nice dull sheen. Looks almost like it was waxxed.

Now if you can't spray, DEFT makes a great brushable laquer that is available in most any hardware store. Drys in minutes. Brush it on, 15 to 20 minutes later , sand, apply another coat. Rub out the top coat with 0000 steel wool, and its as smooth as your babies bottom:jawdrop:



Clear shellac is another great choice. Drys fast. Smells incredibly bad. But, even with all the modern sealers out there, shellac is still the best sealer (beleived by many including myself) to minimize wood movement.

Tung oil can be rubbed on by hand, very nice sheen, buffs to a nice smooth finish.

Wax, DON'T DO IT!! Unless you like the look of water marks on your furniture.

Before I started working for myself building furniture, I was a furniture refinisher for a number of years.

 

[BobL]

I'd go for tung or danish oil.

 

[czeigler]

Thanks for the help. I guess i'll have to try both the laquer and tung oil on some scrap pieces and see what i like.

I would like it to be real smooth but not too glossy. Plus i have kids, would like something that isn't too hard to touch up!

 

[Nikko]

I'd go for tung or danish oil.

Nope - don't do that. Danish oil is Boiled Linseed Oil with color added along with some driers. Pine and oil don't get along - it'll blotch. Same with pine and regular stain - guaranteed blotching (gel stain works though, or you can seal the pine with de-waxed shellac and then stain - that works well).

You may get away with a tung oil finish, or you can use polyurethane (or good old varnish) - either will be OK. If you use poly and want a satin finish, build the coats with gloss, use satin only for your last coat else the finish will look muddy.

Stay away from Minwax's Polyshades though - it's a great idea, but a huge PITA to work with and get decent results.

EDIT - just read your "touch up" requirement. Any plastic (polymerized) finish is tough to touch-up. If this is an issue, stick with lacquer or shellac - both can be touched up successfully (shellac moreso though). Just remember that shellac's natural solvent is alcohol so any alcoholic drink spilled on the table is likely to leave a mark. But that mark can be fixed

 

[BlueRider]

Poly will hold up well, but I hate the stuff. It dries SLOOOWWW, and even in satin looks like plastic. Wood should not look like plastic.

The other reason to avoid poly is if it gets damaged, there really isn't a good fix, other than redoing the entire piece. With laquer you can spot touch up.

The following are my recomendations,

I use laquer. Catalized laquer, probably nothing you can buy. But I have used the nitrocelulose laquer that is in home depot sometimes. Sprays incredible, flows like there is no tomorrow, and is a nice dull sheen. Looks almost like it was waxxed.

Now if you can't spray, DEFT makes a great brushable laquer that is available in most any hardware store. Drys in minutes. Brush it on, 15 to 20 minutes later , sand, apply another coat. Rub out the top coat with 0000 steel wool, and its as smooth as your babies bottom:jawdrop:



Clear shellac is another great choice. Drys fast. Smells incredibly bad. But, even with all the modern sealers out there, shellac is still the best sealer (beleived by many including myself) to minimize wood movement.

Tung oil can be rubbed on by hand, very nice sheen, buffs to a nice smooth finish.

Wax, DON'T DO IT!! Unless you like the look of water marks on your furniture.

Before I started working for myself building furniture, I was a furniture refinisher for a number of years.

Deft is very easy to use but it does not hold up well to ANY water on the surface. General High Performance Polyurethane is a waterbased product that dries in about 20 minutes and sands just like nitrocelulse lacquer. In fact it can be brushed sanded and rubbed out just like Deft. the diference is that it is bullet proof with water on the surface and is very abrasion resistant to boot(deft is not abrasion resistant). General HP also has a UV filter and comes in satin, simi and gloss. But be prepard, performance like this is not cheap, $26/qt & $64/gal These guys are not the best price in town but the link will give you an idea of what the label looks like http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=6295

Several have mentioned tung oil and tung oil finish. these are two compleately diferent products and not always labled clearly. I have a particular fondness for Jasco brand tung oil. It is labled as pure tung oil, but it is a modified finish with lots of resins and driers. It has a distinct amber color and can really highlight the warm tones in walnut and can give doug fir a wll aged vintage glow. it is a easy wipe on finish with excelent water and solvent resistance and is easy to touch up. I have used Jasco on pine and the first one or two coats will look like sh!t. Once it starts to biuld it will look like a million bucks.

Both finsihes I have listed will require 3 coats possibly more depending on your prefrence. And there is no substitute for time and effort for that hand rubbed look.

 

[stonykill]

Deft is very easy to use but it does not hold up well to ANY water on the surface. General High Performance Polyurethane is a waterbased product that dries in about 20 minutes and sands just like nitrocelulse lacquer. In fact it can be brushed sanded and rubbed out just like Deft. the diference is that it is bullet proof with water on the surface and is very abrasion resistant to boot(deft is not abrasion resistant). General HP also has a UV filter and comes in satin, simi and gloss. But be prepard, performance like this is not cheap, $26/qt & $64/gal These guys are not the best price in town but the link will give you an idea of what the label looks like http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=6295

Several have mentioned tung oil and tung oil finish. these are two compleately diferent products and not always labled clearly. I have a particular fondness for Jasco brand tung oil. It is labled as pure tung oil, but it is a modified finish with lots of resins and driers. It has a distinct amber color and can really highlight the warm tones in walnut and can give doug fir a wll aged vintage glow. it is a easy wipe on finish with excelent water and solvent resistance and is easy to touch up. I have used Jasco on pine and the first one or two coats will look like sh!t. Once it starts to biuld it will look like a million bucks.

Both finsihes I have listed will require 3 coats possibly more depending on your prefrence. And there is no substitute for time and effort for that hand rubbed look.

Deft has always held up well for me. Several pieces in my home are finished with deft and still look great. If you abuse it, sure it will break down, but anything will if abused.

Poly looks like shiny plastic even when rubbed out.

In my experience with water based poly, it doesn't hold up at all to water. Leave a plant on the table, and it will actually peel off the water based poly. Yes it dries fast. If you apply it too heavy, it turns white, and it will always stay white in that area.

I've sprayed or applied every finish meantioned. My suggestions have always worked well for me and held up well on hundreds of pieces of furniture around the country. If my finishes didn't I wouldn't get the repeat customers that I do.

To each his own, but poly of anytype is not desirable in my eyes on furniture. Leave it on floors where it belongs.

10 years ago I used high performace water based poly on my floors in my addition. 3 years ago I had to strip and refinish the floor because the finish was completely shot, beyond repair. Yet the rest of my floor was sealed in amber shellac, and then 2 coats of oil based floor poly. Still looks good. Water based poly won't and doesn't hold up at all in my experience. And I went thru a phase of just using water based poly. It bit me in the :censored: as I had to refinish nearly every piece as the finish didn't hold up. It was a real expensive experiment, that I will never try again.

 

[Narwhale]

czeigler,
Only you can figure out what you want with what you got and the look you desire.
Yes, poly can work with pine. So can shellac, laquer, basic or fancy oil based products, epoxy, etc.
Try what you think you want on a sample piece, then ask yourself if the whole piece finished as such would make you happy? When you say yes, use that product.
Rich S.

 

[1953greg]

great thread guys. just what i needed.

what gives red oak its most natural fresh cut wet color? and can it be duplicated?
you know the wet reddish orange color when a board is first exposed from a green log. everything i try just gives a wet look of the dried color. very much different.

 

[stonykill]

great thread guys. just what i needed.

what gives red oak its most natural fresh cut wet color? and can it be duplicated?
you know the wet reddish orange color when a board is first exposed from a green log. everything i try just gives a wet look of the dried color. very much different.

I do little with oak, just cause I don't like it (long story involving a 1.3 million $ church renovation, all oak), but when I want that orange look, I seal the wood or stain with amber shellac, usually 2 coats.

 

[woodshop]

Discussing what kind of finish to put on wood is a lot like debating mix oil and mix ratios with a group of chainsaw addicts. Actually worse, because when it comes to wood finishing there are so many variables, from the kind of wood to different application techniques to where and how the finished wood will be used, that it's hard to make generalities. I don't know a single woodworker that isn't passionate, almost religiously, about one particular type and/or brand of finish for a certain application. Myself included... I love the way Watco Danish oil topped with (after drying for minimum 24 hours) a coating of spray lacquer brings out the beauty of the wood in many of the things I make in the shop. Relatively easy to master, relatively fool proof finish with moderate protection. Not for all applications, but for me, many.

 

[BobL]

As well as Danish, I'm a fan of "hard burnishing oil". It's based on Tung oil but contains other oils as well. The one I use is called "Organoil - hard burnishing oil". It's rubbed in with increasingly finer wet and dry paper (either by hand or powered sander) and closes the timber pores with its own sawdust/oil mixture and then hardens to a very tough finish. It's very popular with turners and easy to repair. It's one downside is like all tung oil based finished it tends to slightly over darken timber.

For hand held stuff like home made tools I just use several coats of pale boiled linseed oil and with a few drops of white shellac to the cloth, increasing teh number of drops with each coat. When completely dry I finish with natural wax. I find this gives a wonderful tactile finish appropriate for hand tools.

 

[BlueRider]

Deft has always held up well for me. Several pieces in my home are finished with deft and still look great. If you abuse it, sure it will break down, but anything will if abused.

Poly looks like shiny plastic even when rubbed out.

In my experience with water based poly, it doesn't hold up at all to water. Leave a plant on the table, and it will actually peel off the water based poly. Yes it dries fast. If you apply it too heavy, it turns white, and it will always stay white in that area.

I've sprayed or applied every finish meantioned. My suggestions have always worked well for me and held up well on hundreds of pieces of furniture around the country. If my finishes didn't I wouldn't get the repeat customers that I do.


but poly of anytype is not desirable in my eyes on furniture. Leave it on floors where it belongs.

10 years ago I used high performace water based poly on my floors in my addition. 3 years ago I had to strip and refinish the floor because the finish was completely shot, beyond repair. Yet the rest of my floor was sealed in amber shellac, and then 2 coats of oil based floor poly. Still looks good. Water based poly won't and doesn't hold up at all in my experience. And I went thru a phase of just using water based poly. It bit me in the :censored: as I had to refinish nearly every piece as the finish didn't hold up. It was a real expensive experiment, that I will never try again.

The water based finishes from 10 years ago were junk and your opinion of them is spot on. I had the exact same opinion based on using some on one project. I read a review in FWW from about a year ago and it happened to be as I was repairing an end table finished in Deft that had some water spots from a few drops of water that were not wiped up. I also noticed how yellow the finish had become. This particular table I used Deft because I wanted the clearest finish I could find.

The FWW article is worth a read if you can find it, let me know if you can't locate it I might be able to find my copy. Long story short is that the new water based finishes are not even close to the old ones. The old WB's were all slightly blue in color and the new ones are nearly water clear or slightly yellow to amber like the nitrocellulose we are all used to working with. The old finishes would gum up when trying to sand and the new finishes produce a fine powdrery swarf similar to nitrocellulose. The one floor I have refinished I opted for Jasco Tung oil and it has performed very well. I was not familiar with the newer waterbased finishes at they time and the WB floor coatings all have aluminum oxide for wear resistance. I think it is a hard sell and I'm not buying, but for tables it is a gret option.

The General Hp is actually a poly acrylic and probably closer to an acrylic lacquer than polyurethane. it is still water based so it will raise the grain. The reason I sugested the general HP finish is because it can be brushed on like Deft with similar results yet will perform more like a calalyzed lacquer. I used to spray some of my finishes but that was when I had a larger shop with a spray area. I am too lazy to clean my shop to the point where I can spray a finish without stiring up a lot of dust, so now I do only hand brushed/rubbed finishes.

I still uses Deft just not for any tables. I have a table lamp that I make and use Deft while it is spining on the lathe in a modified french polish tecnique. I can apply the finish from bare wood to polished in a couple of minuites and pop it off the lathe in another couple. for batch production this is a great finish.

As you know there is no single perfect finish. I know you have an extensive background in finishing which is why I think you may want to give the new waterbased stuf a try. It is always nice to add things to your bag of tricks. besides the General HP I have also tried Crystalac. The Crystalac is also good stuf at a much beter price and is rated for better heat resistance but I still like the look and performance of the General HP a bit better. It goes on best with a synthetic sable brush if you don't opt to spray. The Crystallac comes in seperate formulations for brushing or spraying and they also sell an additive to eliminate fish eye.

 

[stonykill]

well once again the discussion has spiraled out of control.

bluerider, I'm glad you like your water based poly. That product , or an older version of it, cost me so much time and money, that I won't use it if its free. Untill I see definitive proof, that it holds up, I won't touch it. The old stuff looked good when applied also, just years later it was crap.

I stick with my recomendations because they work for me, and yours bluerider work for you. But all the copy and paste in the world, won't change my mind on poly. It's a floor finish.