Fire him or make him pay then fire him...

[treemandan]

So after you explained how to watch out for things getting pulled into the chipper the guy did it anyway?

I assume that you knew the guy was good for stuff like that, you knew where your gear was ( maybe put it there yourself), and you knew there was brush to be drug out of the area. Yes?

 

[Rftreeman]

So after you explained how to watch out for things getting pulled into the chipper the guy did it anyway?

I assume that you knew the guy was good for stuff like that, you knew where your gear was ( maybe put it there yourself), and you knew there was brush to be drug out of the area. Yes?

the answers to your questions are in my post, maybe read them a little better next time, I explain to every person I've ever hired or had work under me about this because it is something that was explained to me on my very first day 23 years ago, if I say there might be a rattle snake over there so keep a look out for it and the Dan runs over there and pays no attention to what I said and gets bit is that my fault or yours...same principle, if I have to tell you everyday the same thing or double check your work then you gotta go and he is gone now, he'll be flipping burgers at Andy's drive-in from here on out.....

 

[Nailsbeats]

the answers to your questions are in my post, maybe read them a little better next time, I explain to every person I've ever hired or had work under me about this because it is something that was explained to me on my very first day 23 years ago, if I say there might be a rattle snake over there so keep a look out for it and the Dan runs over there and pays no attention to what I said and gets bit is that my fault or yours...same principle, if I have to tell you everyday the same thing or double check your work then you gotta go and he is gone now, he'll be flipping burgers at Andy's drive-in from here on out.....

Nice, problem solved.

 

[newsawtooth]

if I have to tell you everyday the same thing or double check your work then you gotta go and he is gone now

Probably for the better...I had to fire my groundman the other day because he dropped a tree on a 200T that I had left in the lay. It was still tough to let him go though because I work by myself.

 

[ducaticorse]

Probably for the better...I had to fire my groundman the other day because he dropped a tree on a 200T that I had left in the lay. It was still tough to let him go though because I work by myself.

To an extent.... But really, if I let go every guy that was valuable in the long run for making a mistake like that, I would be behind the game in the long run. Minor accidents, if you have the revenue, and pay taxes, don't cost you a thing, (to an extent). If it starts becoming a safety issue, and it runs into your ins policies, that's a bigger problem. Just because a saw gets crushed, or a lanyard gets chewed through a chipper, isn't necessarily indicative of a larger problem. Situation dictates....

 

[alanarbor]

When I worked as a ground man, if the climbers #### was in the way of my brush, I'd move it to a safe area.

It makes a lot of sense to have an established tool zone clear of the mayhem where everything goes when it's not in use. Saves on tools being left on the job, saves on damage to gear, keeps the jobsite looking clean.

 

[treemandan]

the answers to your questions are in my post, maybe read them a little better next time, I explain to every person I've ever hired or had work under me about this because it is something that was explained to me on my very first day 23 years ago, if I say there might be a rattle snake over there so keep a look out for it and the Dan runs over there and pays no attention to what I said and gets bit is that my fault or yours...same principle, if I have to tell you everyday the same thing or double check your work then you gotta go and he is gone now, he'll be flipping burgers at Andy's drive-in from here on out.....

No, the answers to my questions are inside of you. Hey, I know how consternating it can be on the job and as the head man you have to keep moving more than the everybody else BUT there has got to be something wrong if a man of your experiance is letting a boy drag #### through the chipper.

So yes ! Its chipping time, do you know where your lanyard is? Hell not only did the kid have himself all twerked up about everything you had him twerked up to. Ya gotta watch the newbies, can't leave em alone sounds like he should have not even been allowed near the chipper alone.


And yes, you are responsible for making sure that #### doesn't happen period. It's a Hell of a responsibity so take it easy on yourself for letting it happen and take it easy on yourself for trying to blame the newbie. What you need to do is confront him on what really happened. What really happened? Well, I just told you, so confront him on all of that and ask him what he thinks... and be nice. Watch what happens, I am amazed myself.


You should not fire this guy but keep him on. We will start a new thread about this incident and invite him to participate, we will encourage him to speak freely about what was going through his head and we will do the same. We will get to the root of the problem which will actually be what solves it. Ok Nails? yer so cute, I luv ya.


Now lets go to work fellas, don't back down, never give an inch , never never never. Ya'll feel me right? I know you do. Where is our lanyard chipping newbie? Get him up here so we can see BUT remember, he's a fragile newbie so be nice.

 

[Rftreeman]

No, the answers to my questions are inside of you. Hey, I know how consternating it can be on the job and as the head man you have to keep moving more than the everybody else BUT there has got to be something wrong if a man of your experiance is letting a boy drag #### through the chipper.

So yes ! Its chipping time, do you know where your lanyard is? Hell not only did the kid have himself all twerked up about everything you had him twerked up to. Ya gotta watch the newbies, can't leave em alone sounds like he should have not even been allowed near the chipper alone.


And yes, you are responsible for making sure that #### doesn't happen period. It's a Hell of a responsibity so take it easy on yourself for letting it happen and take it easy on yourself for trying to blame the newbie. What you need to do is confront him on what really happened. What really happened? Well, I just told you, so confront him on all of that and ask him what he thinks... and be nice. Watch what happens, I am amazed myself.


You should not fire this guy but keep him on. We will start a new thread about this incident and invite him to participate, we will encourage him to speak freely about what was going through his head and we will do the same. We will get to the root of the problem which will actually be what solves it. Ok Nails? yer so cute, I luv ya.


Now lets go to work fellas, don't back down, never give an inch , never never never. Ya'll feel me right? I know you do. Where is our lanyard chipping newbie? Get him up here so we can see BUT remember, he's a fragile newbie so be nice.

I'm also responsible for making sure it doesn't happen again by canning this guy, he's not a boy, he's older than I and has been working with me off and on for 2 years and has been told many times, many things, like don't set a $700 saw behind the truck then back over it, don't leave the chipper hitch open and take off down the road, I could fill this page up with other stuff he's done, he's had many chances to get it right and I am not going to be responsible for calling his wife of 25 years and telling her he is dead because he doesn't pay attention, nope, not gonna do it, I'm not a baby sitter either, if I tell you your duties and responsibility that should be the end of it should it not (refer back to the rattle snake comment) the guy pretty much offered to pay me for the damage equipment but I told him I would take care of it but he couldn't work with me anymore and he agreed that was best because this work really isn't for him....

as for being nice, he is accident prone so I think the nicest thing I could have done is what was done, now he may live longer....

 

[treemandan]

I'm also responsible for making sure it doesn't happen again by canning this guy, he's not a boy, he's older than I and has been working with me off and on for 2 years and has been told many times, many things, like don't set a $700 saw behind the truck then back over it, don't leave the chipper hitch open and take off down the road, I could fill this page up with other stuff he's done, he's had many chances to get it right and I am not going to be responsible for calling his wife of 25 years and telling her he is dead because he doesn't pay attention, nope, not gonna do it, I'm not a baby sitter either, if I tell you your duties and responsibility that should be the end of it should it not (refer back to the rattle snake comment) the guy pretty much offered to pay me for the damage equipment but I told him I would take care of it but he couldn't work with me anymore and he agreed that was best because this work really isn't for him....

as for being nice, he is accident prone so I think the nicest thing I could have done is what was done, now he may live longer....

Now we are getting somewhere. I did make the mistake of refering to the guy as newbie but it seems he is more of slow rent grunt you call for service when you need it. Be with that a minute, be present to what the guy is and what you are to him.

Ok, now be present to the facts that you knew there was an issue and now its a big issue.

One possibility as to how the guy could have done it could be he did it on purpose... well sort of did it on purpose if you know what I mean? Do you know what I mean?

I am not saying that is the case, just a possibility. Its just one of the many possibilities. I , for one, am very interested in hearing the one that made the guy run the lanyard through. I really am, can't sleep.

 

[Rftreeman]

Now we are getting somewhere. I did make the mistake of refering to the guy as newbie but it seems he is more of slow rent grunt you call for service when you need it. Be with that a minute, be present to what the guy is and what you are to him.

Ok, now be present to the facts that you knew there was an issue and now its a big issue.

One possibility as to how the guy could have done it could be he did it on purpose... well sort of did it on purpose if you know what I mean? Do you know what I mean?

I am not saying that is the case, just a possibility. Its just one of the many possibilities. I , for one, am very interested in hearing the one that made the guy run the lanyard through. I really am, can't sleep.

I guess you're gonna have a few sleepless nights then, I'll sleep good with the decisions I made knowing that this guy won't be calling me anymore with a sob story about losing a job and needing work.....I know some need their hand held all day but I'm not doing it, you can with your guys but won't with mine....like in states in my sig...."your mommy don't work here"....

 

[sgreanbeans]

Hard one, accidents do happen. However, the biggest rule is safety for the climber and the gear. They should always know where the gear is and if there are lines on the ground, they had better clear them. Last thing I want is a line drug into the chipper, while someone is attached to the other end. If he didn't see it, he wasn't looking. May have be an honest mistake, no excuse. He needs to pay attention to what he is doing, that could have been much worse. Like posted above, although down a week is painful, your lucky no one was hurt. As the boss, its your responsibility to put the fear of god in them about this sort of stuff, so they are always on the look out, if they cant grasp that, get them outa there.

 

[prentice110]

I didnt read past the first page, but IMHO, how many of you would keep a guy around that keeps chipping after the truck is full? How can you fathom the attitude of a grunt that cant move whats in his way? Hes just there for a check, and doesnt give a flip about you, or care about what it takes. Gotta go. Its too hard to find a good grunt these days.--- Wrap your head around this, where do the broken blades go on a whipper chipper when steel goes thru? Guys lucky just the machine ate it. Coulda caught steel in the face.

 

[jefflovstrom]

If he is just there for the check, why was he hired? I really like to know who I hired so I don't have to fire him in a couple of day's.
Sorry if I sound Sassy!
Jeff :msp_scared:

 

[BC WetCoast]

You have to know the labour laws of your jurisdiction before you do something rash, or it will cost you more in the end.

For example, I looked up the BC Employment Standards

To terminate an employ if you don't have 'just cause' (and just cause is defined both in regulation and by the courts), you must provide either provide notice of termination or equivelant compensation.

The B.C. Employment Standards Act does not remove an employer’s right to terminate an employee. The Act requires that employees who are terminated receive written notice or compensation based on length of service.

Compensation eligibility
An employee who is terminated may be eligible for compensation based on the following formula:

After three consecutive months of employment – one week’s pay;
After 12 consecutive months of employment – two weeks’ pay;
After three consecutive years – three weeks’ pay, plus one week’s pay for each additional year of employment to a maximum of eight weeks.

None of the situations stated would qualify as just cause UNLESS there was a history of documented verbal and written warnings. Or you had the employee sign a document spelling out expected safety and work requirements.

I recently heard that a 5 yr Davey utility truck foreman was fired outright because he was caught one handing a 200T contrary to a safety document he signed.

 

[jefflovstrom]

In California, you don't need a reason to fire a guy'
Jeff

 

[treeslayer]

In California, you don't need a reason to fire a guy'
Jeff

especially if he's sassy. And doesn't have his Escalade washed daily. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Rftreeman]

In California, you don't need a reason to fire a guy'
Jeff

don't need a reason in NC either......

 

[sgreanbeans]

How funny that I replied to this thread, yesterday, my 2006 F-250 AD blew up. Motor is seized, why, no oil. On Monday, I had Jon (Wild Thing) Do maintenance on all the trucks, said he put 2 qts in it. No way he put any oil at all, had several mechanecks over last night to confirm my suspicions. We check the oil pan, empty, check the water in case there is a crack, good to go, It was not blowing any smoke, so the rings are not bad, it is not leaking any where, so where did it go, did someone steal it?, nah, just trusted some one, who is supposed to be super wrench, self proclaimed of course. Ultimately this falls on me, I should have inspected what I expected, and I didn't, and now it will cost me. Jon will be fired in about 30 minutes, as If he did what he said he did, I would still have my truck, but he didn't and he lied about it. If I cannot trust him to do a simple task like that, then I cant trust him at all. I am sure he had the right intent, however, that day, I had al 4 guys working on different things at the shop, while I was doing bids, the other three told me that Jon was on his phone most of the time texting, so Im sure he was going to, but got distracted and forgot, then told me he did. So now I need to go thru all my stuff that he worked on to make sure that nothing else is gonna blow, because he cant keep his hands off his phone.

 

[treemandan]

I didnt read past the first page, but IMHO, how many of you would keep a guy around that keeps chipping after the truck is full? How can you fathom the attitude of a grunt that cant move whats in his way? Hes just there for a check, and doesnt give a flip about you, or care about what it takes. Gotta go. Its too hard to find a good grunt these days.--- Wrap your head around this, where do the broken blades go on a whipper chipper when steel goes thru? Guys lucky just the machine ate it. Coulda caught steel in the face.

I did that a few times when I first started. I didn't know nothing but to keep running and stay out from under things.

I said to my newbie just yesterday, " we are taking that pile of firewood under those tarps, pull them tarps off and lay them out flat to dry."


What I got:

1. One tarp pulled back over the other in a tangled bunch still on the pile.

2. An explanation as to things were done that way instead of the way I described I wanted it.



The reasons why this happens are just as freaky as they are many. The best I can explain it in short is that the guy on deathrow didn't set out to be on deathrow.


The things that are happening with that guy are the same things that are happening with everybody else on some level. There is a lot happening.




And sometimes we sabotage ourselves when we tell someone something in our own words, this something often gets mis-percieved.

Sometimes my newbie is so eager to jump in but doesn't fully get what's going on.

 

[prentice110]

@beans, man, thats hard on so many levels, My heart truly goes out to ya. But if it means anything to ya, one thing Ive learned along time ago, NEVER start a motor at a tree co without checking the oil, EVER! The only co's Ive been at that have blown motors, are the ones that dont follow that rule. One time , for a very short time, I worked for this pothead idiot. One day I told him I was going to check the oil on his bucket, he told me dont, its fine. I checked it anyway, and it was 2+ quarts low. A week or so later, same thing happened with the clam, but he refused to let me check it. Had little to no respect for the guy, cuz he was a trash pile druggie, who never paid on time, if he paid, later that day th motor blew cuz there was no oil. My chipper hasnt used a drop of oil since it was changed in March, gettin close to due for a change now, But I still check it at the first start on the day, everyday. You all know why.