Firewood Sales requirements in IL? And what do you think about my plan..

[roberthathaway7]

I'm down here in Southern Illinois. I know that there were some restrictions for some of the northern counties to not move firewood at all between counties, and for us the restrictions were that we can't carry it across state lines, because of the emerald ash borer. I am looking into possible cutting a ton of firewood this winter to haul to metropolitan areas and sell, but was wondering what the current restrictions there are, and do I need to be licensed somehow? I run a legitimate lawn and landscape/ small tree work business and doing this would keep me busy for the winter months if I could get ahead of it. I know I can sell plenty around here, but I would like to try a little venture into the metro market just to see what happens. Anyone have any info on this? And does anyone have any idea of what prices are like this year around St. Louis or Chicago?

My off the cuff plan would be to stack wood on pallets this winter, wrapped with some plastic netting for stability and airflow and then plastic wrapped for shipment, then have it hauled to St. Louis and sell it by the pallets or possibly set up in a lot and sell it off the pallets by the truckload depending on truck size, or even bundles/small amounts. A standard 3x4 wood pallet (which I have unlimited free supply of) stacked 5- 5 1/2 ft high would be a face cord, so I could price them accordingly when I figure out the going rate. I also have forklift access in my wood yard, so I could hire a truck with a fork attached or a drop deck w/hand jack for the haul. Finding a lot in the metro area/advertising and logistics as such I would have to figure out later, and I haven't looked into the cost of the trucking or anything, but this is my basic idea right now. Do you think this would work? I'm sure there are guys doing this sort of thing out there with some slick trick method, so maybe you could give me some advice? Or shoot me down? Haha, I have no prob with a dose of reality, this is just something I've been kicking around. I haven't even looked into it on the forum yet, I just want to get it out there while I'm thinking about it. Let me know what you think! thanks

 

[roberthathaway7]

And here's another one! I just thought about it... I have a friend who has a wood mill, all they make is cribbing/timbers for coal mines. In other words, they make a crap-ton of 6x6, 8x8, and sometimes 10x10's. They burn mountains of cut offs from these that are anywhere from 6 inches to 24 inches long, mostly somewhere in between. And it's ALL heartwood! Not sapwood like you get from slabs. Only thing is that it's a confetti mix of everything but pine. But it should be sell-able because a lot of it is quality stuff like red oak, ash, locust, etc. And the overhead is so low just because all I have to do is back up, toss it on a trailer, and haul it back, that I could just sell it "come load it yourself at a discount" and do alright with it. He has given me full permission to go grab all that I want of this stuff as long as the pile is not on fire, then it's at my own risk. I could get probably 5 semi-loads of this a year if I really tried. I haven't tried to sell it around here because it's so hard to stack and it's an awkward size, just on the verge of being big enough to split but usually sort of short and blocky. So I just grab some for myself sometimes. SO- maybe I could haul this stuff up by the truckload?? I guess the thing to do would be to take a few pallets up and try to sell it along with my regular wood, if I so dare to tackle this. But does that sound like something that would sell? I mean they don't have access to wood, and if I get into the lower-class end of town where people burn wood because they have to, maybe I could sell this stuff cheap like hotcakes and still come out good because I have nothing but a little transport cost?

 

[roberthathaway7]

I predict that you wil be restricted soon and not be able to move between counties.

Me too.. seems a little risky I guess considering I would be prepping a year out. That makes me wonder how these people who heat their home mainly with wood in metro areas are going to meet their heating needs? I know they can always switch to gas/electric but I'm sure there are a lot of people who couldn't afford the investment if they don't have a gas/electric heater to begin with.

 

[dave_dj1]

build yourself a kiln and run it all through the kiln. The heat from the kiln will kill everything and you "should" be able to market it anywhere. I'm not sure about your local though.
I would love to get me some of those blocks, my outside furnace would love them!

 

[tomtrees58]

we can move it 50 miles that it

 

[blackdogon57]

Firewood Regulations

Illinois has, like many other jurisdictions, has come to the conclusion that the whole state is infested with EAB. That means you can move as much wood as you like within the state. If you think you can deal with the logistics you may be onto a good idea.

 

[roberthathaway7]

build yourself a kiln and run it all through the kiln. The heat from the kiln will kill everything and you "should" be able to market it anywhere. I'm not sure about your local though.
I would love to get me some of those blocks, my outside furnace would love them!

I know right! I figured I should market that wood to people around here with the large wood burners. I would offer to make wood cribs from pallets/pallet sidewalls staked by two fence posts through each pallet. Really simple to make, and like I said, I have never-ending pallets. Then I could simply chuck these blocks in them all willy nilly. You can't really stack them because they would sit so flush on each other they would hold moisture and mold... the few I have right now, I just chucked out onto some pallets in mounds to they would get a little air and drain.
View attachment 271514View attachment 271515

Firewood Regulations

Illinois has, like many other jurisdictions, has come to the conclusion that the whole state is infested with EAB. That means you can move as much wood as you like within the state. If you think you can deal with the logistics you may be onto a good idea.

We have the Shawnee National Forest headquarters here in town, I'll stop by tomorrow and talk to them and find out for sure and let you know what I find.

 

[zogger]

That sawmill scrap sounds great! People look for bargains, and you got no bark nice chunks mixed hardwood. Maybe the larger pieces need splitting?

good luck man! Ya, nice palletized loads seem nice and neat, as long as you have a way to get them to where the people want it. Pallet hacks/hand jacks wont roll across lawn.

 

[KyleOh]

Offroad pallet jacks. They make gas powered versions to.

Rough Terrain Pallet Truck - Buy Rough,Terrain,Pallet Truck Product on Alibaba.com

 

[gregfox]

For the odd size pieces I get I make a pile at the end of my driveway with a $20 sign. Every one has been bought, it's unseasoned and I touch it 2 times, load and unload. Start out with a few wheelbarrows, and add on till a buyer hits. WAY more profitable than $250 cords of pretty/seasoned oak. I do live on a state highway which gets a bit of traffic. I know others that sell about the same size pile of odd cuts for camp fire wood. If its free and not much work you will do ok. CL ads will help. Good Luck!

 

[roberthathaway7]

Offroad pallet jacks. They make gas powered versions to.

Rough Terrain Pallet Truck - Buy Rough,Terrain,Pallet Truck Product on Alibaba.com

Off road! nice! I wasn't even thinking of using the pallet jacks at the house because I know they don't roll off of pavement, but this off road thing might be something to work toward... esp the gas powered, because pushing pallet jack up hill is never a good time, and you never know where the wood needs to be dropped. What I was thinking was either A- throw it off the back of the semi into truckbeds, or B- if I could get a truck with a lift gate, I could drop it right down to the level of their truck beds and slide it right on. If you could get some addresses though, you can rent a flatbed pickup truck from Lowes for $69 a day to make deliveries. That would be if you rode in the semi, or you could drive up in your pickup separate depending on how you worked your trucking out. One guy can make delivery runs while the other stays and sells out of the truck, unless all of the wood is tied up in deliveries, which wouldn't be a problem. Of course depending on the cost, it may be more profitable to rent a lot and offload the wood then do a bunch of handling. There are billions of trucks around here and I'm sure I can find some independent I know who would want to make a few extra bucks helping me sell and letting me stay in the sleeper. Yeah I'm thinking the trick would be to park the wood and let the customers come to you, although you might need to try the delivering just take make sure you get some wood moved, then feel out the parked sales to see what you need to do next time. And I guess if you could charge well enough for the delivery, it might be worth it. I wouldn't price myself out on that though.

For the odd size pieces I get I make a pile at the end of my driveway with a $20 sign. Every one has been bought, it's unseasoned and I touch it 2 times, load and unload. Start out with a few wheelbarrows, and add on till a buyer hits. WAY more profitable than $250 cords of pretty/seasoned oak. I do live on a state highway which gets a bit of traffic. I know others that sell about the same size pile of odd cuts for camp fire wood. If its free and not much work you will do ok. CL ads will help. Good Luck!

Oh yeah, I definitely have those oddball piles too, lots of small limbs and crotch pieces, sell like hotcakes

 

[roberthathaway7]

I take that back, just priced the motorized off-road jacks and I'll put a down payment on a bobcat with forks before I spend that kind of money on a jack

 

[flyboy553]

Have you researched your market area? Do you know how much you can charge for this firewood?
Is the firewood demand so high that folks will come clamoring to your semi to buy firewood? Or will you end up sitting for days waiting to sell this wood? The truck owner is not going to be happy sitting around trying to help you sell firewood when there are no buyers in sight. While the truck is loaded, he can't be out making any other money, so you would have to come up with some other set up, or give all your profit to the truck owner.

Just a few things to think about before you start this endeavor. I sell firewood, have done so for around 30 years. At the end of the season I may have sold 100 cords of firewood, but would never even dream of loading up a semi and thinking I could move it all in a day or two. Firewood seems to sell in spurts. Might sell 5 cords today but none tomorrow. Might sell 10 cord this week but none for two weeks at a time.

Wish you all the best in this, but be careful to not look at firewood sales as a monster money maker or you will be broke before you even start!

Ted

Ted

 

[roberthathaway7]

Have you researched your market area? Do you know how much you can charge for this firewood?
Is the firewood demand so high that folks will come clamoring to your semi to buy firewood? Or will you end up sitting for days waiting to sell this wood? The truck owner is not going to be happy sitting around trying to help you sell firewood when there are no buyers in sight. While the truck is loaded, he can't be out making any other money, so you would have to come up with some other set up, or give all your profit to the truck owner.

Just a few things to think about before you start this endeavor. I sell firewood, have done so for around 30 years. At the end of the season I may have sold 100 cords of firewood, but would never even dream of loading up a semi and thinking I could move it all in a day or two. Firewood seems to sell in spurts. Might sell 5 cords today but none tomorrow. Might sell 10 cord this week but none for two weeks at a time.

Wish you all the best in this, but be careful to not look at firewood sales as a monster money maker or you will be broke before you even start!

Ted

Ted

Thanks ted. I had actually already asked myself all of those questions and was waiting for someone to point them out, just didn't have the energy to type it all out at the time I started the thread, but- since you ask...

Realistically, I know that this could be something that at any point I could find a big No-Can-Do sign for. I am not expecting it to work as much as I just want to look into it for curiosity, and the chance to cash in if it just so happens to work out. To address your questions...

Market: I was trying to research a little by asking about prices/demand in the beginning of this thread, just haven't heard anything yet. I might need to ask it more directly in another post. Of course I don't know who in their right mind would want to make it sound like I could make any money in their area, but maybe someone will be nice to me :msp_biggrin:. I was trying to think of ways to research... I figured I could look at craigslist, search firewood in the area I'm looking at, and find the average prices per quality/quantity like "Hardwood" and "Mixed wood" and "full size truckload" or "cords." It kills me that nobody around here realizes that a face cord is not a cord. When I watch for prices around here, I have to sift through the people who are selling face cords as cords, usually they are selling it wayyy too cheap to be a real cord so I assume it's a face cord. Also I could pay attention to how they are selling, whether it's predominantly self haul, or delivery or what. So yeah a lot of fine tuned analysis of through craigslist. I guess I could try to find some classifieds from online newspapers in the area too. Another thing I could do a little demo-graphic research possiblly through the national census website, look for middle class areas with house-hold making less than 100,000 and find busy intersections that lead to them, then start making calls to gas stations/other businesses there to check for interest. Or I could line a bunch of these places up on a map and just drive up there (st. louis, not chicago) and start talking face to face. I like to do that sort of thing anyways, never know what you'll find. Anybody else have any other ideas on how I could feel out the market? I'm definitly open to ideas.

Truck: This is the part that's really make it or break it. I honestly have no idea how it would play out. I figured most-likely scenerio is that acquire a lot to use, and have the truck just drop off some pallets and I drive up there and try to sell it. If it's a business with a fork-lift, I would compare the price they would charge me to unload vs. the price of a truck with a lift gate. Truck with a lift gate might be better though if I can get there and set-up before store hours. I will try to see that half of the truck is sold already before I actually embark on this, and I would be making those runs while someone else I brought with me stays and sells it out of the lot. Most likely the thing with keeping the truck there wouldn't work because of reasons you mentioned, but you never know if I might find someone around here who's not booked and willing to stick around for a little cash.

I definitely don't see firewood as a big-time money maker. I've done the numbers and I figure I clear about 5 dollars an hour when it's all said and done with overhead figured in, but I like it.

 

[flyboy553]

Thanks ted. I had actually already asked myself all of those questions and was waiting for someone to point them out, just didn't have the energy to type it all out at the time I started the thread, but- since you ask...

Realistically, I know that this could be something that at any point I could find a big No-Can-Do sign for. I am not expecting it to work as much as I just want to look into it for curiosity, and the chance to cash in if it just so happens to work out. To address your questions...

Market: I was trying to research a little by asking about prices/demand in the beginning of this thread, just haven't heard anything yet. I might need to ask it more directly in another post. Of course I don't know who in their right mind would want to make it sound like I could make any money in their area, but maybe someone will be nice to me :msp_biggrin:. I was trying to think of ways to research... I figured I could look at craigslist, search firewood in the area I'm looking at, and find the average prices per quality/quantity like "Hardwood" and "Mixed wood" and "full size truckload" or "cords." It kills me that nobody around here realizes that a face cord is not a cord. When I watch for prices around here, I have to sift through the people who are selling face cords as cords, usually they are selling it wayyy too cheap to be a real cord so I assume it's a face cord. Also I could pay attention to how they are selling, whether it's predominantly self haul, or delivery or what. So yeah a lot of fine tuned analysis of through craigslist. I guess I could try to find some classifieds from online newspapers in the area too. Another thing I could do a little demo-graphic research possiblly through the national census website, look for middle class areas with house-hold making less than 100,000 and find busy intersections that lead to them, then start making calls to gas stations/other businesses there to check for interest. Or I could line a bunch of these places up on a map and just drive up there (st. louis, not chicago) and start talking face to face. I like to do that sort of thing anyways, never know what you'll find. Anybody else have any other ideas on how I could feel out the market? I'm definitly open to ideas.

Truck: This is the part that's really make it or break it. I honestly have no idea how it would play out. I figured most-likely scenerio is that acquire a lot to use, and have the truck just drop off some pallets and I drive up there and try to sell it. If it's a business with a fork-lift, I would compare the price they would charge me to unload vs. the price of a truck with a lift gate. Truck with a lift gate might be better though if I can get there and set-up before store hours. I will try to see that half of the truck is sold already before I actually embark on this, and I would be making those runs while someone else I brought with me stays and sells it out of the lot. Most likely the thing with keeping the truck there wouldn't work because of reasons you mentioned, but you never know if I might find someone around here who's not booked and willing to stick around for a little cash.

I definitely don't see firewood as a big-time money maker. I've done the numbers and I figure I clear about 5 dollars an hour when it's all said and done with overhead figured in, but I like it.

I think the best way to get an honest local price of firewood in an area is to get ahold of the local shopper. Usually firewood sellers run ads in there rather than the city's big newspaper so they stay more local. I know I do. That's also the problem with Craigs list. I don't want to run to the south side of mpls with a load of wood. Time and cost of getting there is just too high.
I know that if someone looking to sell firewood in my area were to ask me what I charge, they would get a different number than what I actually sell it for.:cool2:

Ted

 

[roberthathaway7]

I think the best way to get an honest local price of firewood in an area is to get ahold of the local shopper. Usually firewood sellers run ads in there rather than the city's big newspaper so they stay more local. I know I do. That's also the problem with Craigs list. I don't want to run to the south side of mpls with a load of wood. Time and cost of getting there is just too high.
I know that if someone looking to sell firewood in my area were to ask me what I charge, they would get a different number than what I actually sell it for.:cool2:

Ted

Yeah that's true.. in a small town like ours people advertise in the newspaper but it probably couldn't work that way in such a populated area. I honestly haven't even heard of a "shopper" around here but I guess that's like a local "classifieds" publication where people are selling cars and everything else? Thanks for that tip! These are the things I need to find out because this small town kid has a lot to learn before jumping in the lion pit. I learned a lot, and taught a lot when I went to Murray State for 4 yrs. We had a lot of city kids from St. Louis and Louisville and we were always learning random things from each other that showed how we had all been trapped in out own little cultural bubble. I remember some people making fun of me when I lived in the dorms and said I was "going to town." The campus was already in town, I just meant going off campus.. haha. I didn't back down though, it was always "going to town". And then I showed them the ancient art of possum tossin' and they began the appreciate my ways :biggrin:

 

[hammerhead 5410]

I'm in the south suburbs of Chicago. Average price around here is 110 to 130 mixed and 130 to 150 oak per face cord. I have a friend who used to split and sell who found a guy hauling wood up from the microburst affected area of southern. He was buying mixed by the semi truck dump box load for on the average of 45 a face cord, mixed. He has since gotten out of the business all together. He often would sell bulk, wholesale to local landscape and home centers for their retail market. You may want to make some calls to such businesses and research that angle.

I heat with an OWB and also run a heat and glo Northstar. I collect and process all my own firewood. My dad lives on Lake of Egypt and man do I wish I had access to all the good wood you guys have down there!!

 

[Ax-man]

There is no market up here in the northern part of the state. This looks like it will be another mild winter for the second time in a row with no snow cover, plus there is a glut of wood around due to the storms that hit the area. Prices are way down. Some of the prices I have seen quoted in newspaper ads, CL ect. ect. are prices from 10 years ago. Example would be face cord of mixed wood delivered $60 to $70 bucks, oak prices aren't much more $80 to $100. Some people will also stack it for those prices.

The drought and heat didn't help either for our summer firewood sales to the camp grounds due to outright banning of fires or it was just to humid at night for the pyro's to enjoy their evening fires.

We sell wood also but we haven't lowered our prices because there isn't much profit in wood after you figure your processing and delivery costs. I'd rather just get rid of the wood instead of lowering our prices. I like to call selling firewood working unemployment:msp_biggrin:

 

[roberthathaway7]

There is no market up here in the northern part of the state. This looks like it will be another mild winter for the second time in a row with no snow cover, plus there is a glut of wood around due to the storms that hit the area. Prices are way down. Some of the prices I have seen quoted in newspaper ads, CL ect. ect. are prices from 10 years ago. Example would be face cord of mixed wood delivered $60 to $70 bucks, oak prices aren't much more $80 to $100. Some people will also stack it for those prices.

The drought and heat didn't help either for our summer firewood sales to the camp grounds due to outright banning of fires or it was just to humid at night for the pyro's to enjoy their evening fires.

We sell wood also but we haven't lowered our prices because there isn't much profit in wood after you figure your processing and delivery costs. I'd rather just get rid of the wood instead of lowering our prices. I like to call selling firewood working unemployment:msp_biggrin:

Thanks Hammerhead, and Ax-Man you have no idea how much I agree with your "working unemployment", haha. That's actually exactly what it is for me, considering. Good think I really enjoy doing it. I am about to go split an s-10 load of ash by hand and deliver here in a few. I'll really be earning my money on that one :rolleyes2:. Good old supply and demand.. it's a beast. That's why I was looking to see if there was any supply deficit in high demand areas.. doesn't sound like it though. Yeah the microburst killed prices around here for a while. And this year we had the tornado, that'll hold it down for this year too. Once I get a full size 4x4 (I know go ahead and laugh) and I can actually get to wood on my own terms, I think I'll do alright around here because I have a high-end of middle class clientel from my mowing business who I can network with pretty well if I had the wood to sell, and they'll pay the best as far as charging a premium for service. One of the things I do for people is build wood cradles for no charge made out of pallets and steel posts. It takes me 20 minutes, costs $10 and impresses the begeezes out of people that I care about keeping their wood organized and in good shape. It helps them and makes it look like I probably run a tight ship business, which I do. Wood organized by type, all on pallets, no mud in bark, consisten size, no rot, always seasoned. And that cycles over to my lawn business, sometimes I get lawn to mow based off of my wood biz. Anything worth doing is worth doing right. And that's why I ask a lot of questions :wink2: