first time with a chain grinder...

[ryanrat]

I typically hand sharpen but after a while we all know a good grind is necessary to reset the cutter. I used to pay a guy to do this for me but my FIL recently got the cheapo HF chain grinder so I figured I would give it a shot. Got it all setup and double checked the angles as best I could and started easing the chain through. Took light grinding passes, lowered the grinder 3x per tooth with a quick light 'tsst' 'tsst' 'tsst' and then moved to next cutter. Here are some pics of what I ended up with. All the cutters look pretty consistent (to the eye) and feel razor sharp!

Now I know there are chain sharpening gurus out there so let me hear it... what did I do wrong and what can I do to improve?

 

[Moparmyway]

Who said you did something wrong ???
Looks pretty good !
Did you check the rakers with a depth gauge ?

 

[moody]

Take a stroke off the rakers. Other than that it looks good. The angle is a little steep for me unless it's a soft wood chain, but you'll figure angles out the more you use it. I've found for me 32* holds an edge best for the cutting I do.

 

[ryanrat]

i did check with a cheap oregon depth gauge (the kind you lay on top and expose just the depth gauge if it pokes up) and it needed just a bit taken off each. So i went thru and did that to all (way more pain in the arse than hand filing IMO).

I havent cut yet with it, hoping to do so this weekend. I cut a mix of hardwood mostly but do see some soft stuff. I might try 32° on a different chain and see if I notice a difference. I'm sure either way the chain will still rip some big chips as usual!

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[KenJax Tree]

That looks like a pretty sharp chain if i do say so.

 

[moody]

i did check with a cheap oregon depth gauge (the kind you lay on top and expose just the depth gauge if it pokes up) and it needed just a bit taken off each. So i went thru and did that to all (way more pain in the arse than hand filing IMO).

I havent cut yet with it, hoping to do so this weekend. I cut a mix of hardwood mostly but do see some soft stuff. I might try 32° on a different chain and see if I notice a difference. I'm sure either way the chain will still rip some big chips as usual!

Thanks for the feedback!

No problem man and again nice job. One thing I will add is I use mostly Oregon and Stihl chain. What works on Stihl doesn't always work on Oregon but we cut a lot of Hedge and both as I said do well around 32*. I've yet to make a chipper chain but that may be something you could find some information on and you might like it better for your needs.

 

[ryanrat]

No problem man and again nice job. One thing I will add is I use mostly Oregon and Stihl chain. What works on Stihl doesn't always work on Oregon but we cut a lot of Hedge and both as I said do well around 32*. I've yet to make a chipper chain but that may be something you could find some information on and you might like it better for your needs.

The chain in the pic is a Woodland Pro from Baileys for my 20" carlton bar on my 266xp (3/8" .063 full chisel). Once I found Woodland pro chains I never looked back. If I can find the time I may find an extra loop and do a fresh grind at 32° and see if i can run a comparison this weekend when i go cutting. looking at mostly ash and maybe some white oak, ~24" round, this weekend so it will be a good test!

 

[Jacob707]

Hey ryanrat glad you chimed in on the hf grinder. I been curious too. Those teeth look sharp. There is one thing that comes to mind when looking at how the tooth was sharpened. It appears that a round file would not fit the curviture of the grind. With this thought I figured that on the work site it may take awhile to resharpen the chain. It may be in your best interest to pick up an extra chian. We all know how easy it is to rock em. One slight miscalculation while working could lead to a lengthy bit of sharpening. Having a standby could save some time. Good Luck!!!

A smart man learns from his mistakes, a wise man learns from that mistakes of others.:msp_biggrin:

 

[7sleeper]

Not quite sure but the top of the cutter looks a little blue at the tip. Might only be a reflection or the bad photographer who's to blame... Otherwise they look very nice. I would take maybe two file strokes of the rakers but that is only personal way of doing it. I also have one of the el cheapos and they are great! Much better than handfiling a chain back to normal dimensions after enemy contact.

7

 

[ryanrat]

Not quite sure but the top of the cutter looks a little blue at the tip. Might only be a reflection or the bad photographer who's to blame... Otherwise they look very nice. I would take maybe two file strokes of the rakers but that is only personal way of doing it. I also have one of the el cheapos and they are great! Much better than handfiling a chain back to normal dimensions after enemy contact.

7

crappy cell phone camera + an unclean chain = "blue" tip cutter... I thought about cleaning the chain before grinding it but just went ahead and did it anyway. The "blue" or dark area behind the cutter tip is just burnt wood pith and such that was still on the cutter. I just went and scraped a few cutters to confirm. I've sharpened enough woodworking hand chisels to know that "blue" is bad when you want an edge to last lol

 

[Trx250r180]

how are you dressing your stone ? have a pic of the wheel ? it should be round like a file ,when i grind my round it looks like the shape of a file in my grind ,looks like that chain will cut wood ,but doesn't look like a file will touch it up quickly .i dont grind that deep into the gullet either try 25-30 and 60 on the angles and dont go as deep into the gullet

 

[heimannm]

No doubt that chain will cut, but you have gone too deep and no longer retain the "hollow ground" effect on the tooth. Refer to the attached sketch from Oregon for an idea of what I'm talking about.

If you need to get into the bottom of the gullet to clean it up, do that in a different set up so the edge of the tooth is not so flat.

I have plenty of flat faced chains on the wall myself, part of the learning process.

Mark

 

[7sleeper]

That's what I expected anyway. I don't clean my chains either prior to grinding. But another thing is that I don't grind down as far as you did. I leave a little more space between the top of the connecting links and the bottom of the grind. Don't ask why I do it after grinding a little too low and the chain ripped ....
I believe that you will be very happy with your results!

7

 

[ryanrat]

No doubt that chain will cut, but you have gone too deep and no longer retain the "hollow ground" effect on the tooth. Refer to the attached sketch from Oregon for an idea of what I'm talking about.

If you need to get into the bottom of the gullet to clean it up, do that in a different set up so the edge of the tooth is not so flat.

I have plenty of flat faced chains on the wall myself, part of the learning process.

Mark

thanks for the picture... i will go back and take another look at the wheel angle and see if i can adjust to match better. I did notice that my round files dont work as well if i try to run them across... not a huge deal right now as i have a sharp chain but can see this being an issue for woods sharpening later on.

oh an i'm not drisseing the wheel, just used it straight out of the package as is.

 

[Trx250r180]

thanks for the picture... i will go back and take another look at the wheel angle and see if i can adjust to match better. I did notice that my round files dont work as well if i try to run them across... not a huge deal right now as i have a sharp chain but can see this being an issue for woods sharpening later on.

oh an i'm not drisseing the wheel, just used it straight out of the package as is.

i will try to get a pic of my wheel tonight and what my chains look like and one where the wheel contacts as i grind ,i cant explain in words like a photo can

 

[heimannm]

It is not just the angle, but the depth as well. Look at the sketch, then imagine you don't stop there and grind on down to the bottom of the gullet, then look at your chain and see the results.

As noted, I have a lot of flat face chains that I have sharpened myself trying to clean up the gullet when sharpening the tooth. It look nice when you're finished, but they to not cut as well as one that is hollow ground like you achieve with a file, or with the radius on the wheel when you stop at the right point.

Filing your chain will be a bit challenging initially since you don't have a defined radius to nest the file in. I will be very easy to get the file too high or tool low unless you use some sort of guide. I thought I had some nice sketches to illustrate too high and too low on the file but I can't seem to locate them right now. The attached is from an old McCulloch manual but illustrates pretty well I think.

In a nutshell, holding the file too low or using a small diameter file will produce excessive hook in the tooth. It will cut fast for a bit but the edge is too keen to hold up very long. Holding the file too high, or using a larger diameter file that appropriate for the chain will result in no hook at all. or even a back slope. This is similar to the negative hook angle on circular saw blades. back slope will not cut well and requires tremendous pressure to force it into the wood.

Mark

 

[ryanrat]

It is not just the angle, but the depth as well. Look at the sketch, then imagine you don't stop there and grind on down to the bottom of the gullet, then look at your chain and see the results.

As noted, I have a lot of flat face chains that I have sharpened myself trying to clean up the gullet when sharpening the tooth. It look nice when you're finished, but they to not cut as well as one that is hollow ground like you achieve with a file, or with the radius on the wheel when you stop at the right point.

Filing your chain will be a bit challenging initially since you don't have a defined radius to nest the file in. I will be very easy to get the file too high or tool low unless you use some sort of guide. I thought I had some nice sketches to illustrate too high and too low on the file but I can't seem to locate them right now. The attached is from an old McCulloch manual but illustrates pretty well I think.

In a nutshell, holding the file too low or using a small diameter file will produce excessive hook in the tooth. It will cut fast for a bit but the edge is too keen to hold up very long. Holding the file too high, or using a larger diameter file that appropriate for the chain will result in no hook at all. or even a back slope. This is similar to the negative hook angle on circular saw blades. back slope will not cut well and requires tremendous pressure to force it into the wood.

Mark

gotcha... well looks like i have some experiementing to do. thankfully i have a few loops so maybe this one will be the guinea pig loop for awhile until i get the grinder set correctly. thanks!

 

[moody]

gotcha... well looks like i have some experiementing to do. thankfully i have a few loops so maybe this one will be the guinea pig loop for awhile until i get the grinder set correctly. thanks!

Don't be afraid to post a video or two. Report back let us know how it went. A lot of times when I started doing my own chains I had the same problem, they looked/felt sharp but really weren't doing the job. Mark said it best my problem was the gullet, now I only use a grinder to fix chains that we've used in hedge rows and clipped nails and fence that were in the tree. A grinder can be a huge help but like they've been saying if you plan on filing them keep the file shape. I think the best tip I've ever recieved was using a 404 file on 3/8th's chain. Sounds dumb but it works for me. I think you're doing it right worrying about a sharp chain before modifying your saws. Sharp chains will help your saw more than any mod's in the longevity department.

And thanks for the information Mark. Just wondering what model grinder do you have? It was a nice little set up.

 

[ryanrat]

Don't be afraid to post a video or two. Report back let us know how it went. A lot of times when I started doing my own chains I had the same problem, they looked/felt sharp but really weren't doing the job. Mark said it best my problem was the gullet, now I only use a grinder to fix chains that we've used in hedge rows and clipped nails and fence that were in the tree. A grinder can be a huge help but like they've been saying if you plan on filing them keep the file shape. I think the best tip I've ever recieved was using a 404 file on 3/8th's chain. Sounds dumb but it works for me. I think you're doing it right worrying about a sharp chain before modifying your saws. Sharp chains will help your saw more than any mod's in the longevity department.

And thanks for the information Mark. Just wondering what model grinder do you have? It was a nice little set up.

never said anything about not modding my saws... my 450 is my only stock saw! the lil poulan i have has seen many a better days before i tore into it. now runs like a raped ape but i know its days are numbered... i only use it for light limbing and when i want to make a lot of noise! the 266xp has be rebuilt with some "smoothing of the rough edges" here and there.... hehehe

but i agree with you comment in that a sharp chain will do wonders for any saw stock or modified and is truly the best "upgrade" you can give your saw. even the lil poulan has better days after a fresh chain swap!

 

[heimannm]

Mine is the relatively inexpensive Carlton model much like the Oregon 511A. I did modify the wiring to make the motor reversible and I always grind outside in, opposite of the way I file.

Mitch (Mweba) gave me another similar model that I equipped with the 1/4" wheel and use just for the depth gauges, also made that one reversible.

I also bought one of the bar rail grinders from Baileys so I would always have one ready to go. The fact is I like using the disc sander better, but I was melting the plastic dust hood on my 6" Craftsman sander, and it was too much hassle to clean out the base of the table saw and set it up with the 10" disc each time I needed to true up a bar.

Mark