Footlocking Injuries

[clearance]

Was looking around on the website Tom Dunlap is involved with. He said that footlocking was hard on the body, that legs were not made to bend like that and that injuries of the permanent kind have resulted. He advised using the pantin and something else. I am pointing this out for peoples benefit, all I hear is how spurless is best, faster and so on. Ocassionally the truth leaks out, like it is hard and some people get pulled up the tree by others or machines. In the same vien, previously on this site there was all kinds of talk about rigging down massive chunks of wood and how this was ok. After looking into things I found fatality reports and warnings about this practice, disputing the "ok" bs, backing up my contentions. The last thing I expect here is for people who spurless climb to honestly speak about this and problems with footlocking but maybe I will be suprised. Footlocking always looked painfull and stupid to me, now I am right, again, it seems.

 

[DDM]

LMAO This should be interesting.:yoyo:

 

[Bermie]

Hey, I've got no problem with spikes on a dismantling job, the extra security and leverage is great, however for a long climb up on a pruning job I have someone help pull me up (leave the spikes on the ground) if there aren't a lot of branches, I've got friends here who use their trucks to pull them up too. I sprained my knee playing hockey and footlocking is out of the question except for short ascents. Mind you using spikes all day makes my knees hurt too!
I guess you all are talking about those huge ascents of pines and such?

 

[kennertree]

Clearance...............Ah, nevermind.

 

[clearance]

Clearance...............Ah, nevermind.

If someone else had posted this? Like I thought, the usual p.c. guys don't have anything to say cause they know I'm right.

 

[kennertree]

Clarence, everything is hard on your body. Even climbing with spurs. Running a chainsaw can be hard on your body. What is it that you think you are right about? You do nothing on this site but point out your ignoracne with every post. If you lack the skills to climb spurless then be quiet about it.

 

[Treeman14]

I've tried footlocking maybe three times. I found it very tiring and awkward, had to rest for about 20 minutes after a 40 foot ascent. :bang: The pantin is less work but still rather slow. I prefer to use a ladder or the old-school body thrust method to get up to the first branches and then simply free climb to my tie-in point. Here in FL, most of our trees don't get very tall and even the tall ones usually have lots of low limbs so they're pretty easy to climb. For the record, I have to agree with clearance that spurless climbing is both slower and more demanding physically than climbing with spurs. I don't think anyone can honestly deny that. However, that's a price some of us are willing to pay for the benefit of the trees. Even though we've had our differences, I think for the type of work that clearance does, spurring is the most efficient method available. After all, he can't very well tote a 28' fiberglass ladder through the bush now, can he?

 

[clearance]

I've tried footlocking maybe three times. I found it very tiring and awkward, had to rest for about 20 minutes after a 40 foot ascent. :bang: The pantin is less work but still rather slow. I prefer to use a ladder or the old-school body thrust method to get up to the first branches and then simply free climb to my tie-in point. Here in FL, most of our trees don't get very tall and even the tall ones usually have lots of low limbs so they're pretty easy to climb. For the record, I have to agree with clearance that spurless climbing is both slower and more demanding physically than climbing with spurs. I don't think anyone can honestly deny that. However, that's a price some of us are willing to pay for the benefit of the trees. Even though we've had our differences, I think for the type of work that clearance does, spurring is the most efficient method available. After all, he can't very well tote a 28' fiberglass ladder through the bush now, can he?

Brett, before I said I would never talk to you again, I was wrong, I am suprised at this honesty, I am sorry I beefed with you so much, maybe we will argue again but thank you.

 

[tophopper]

:deadhorse:

 

[coydog]

I've got nerve damage in my shins from so much time in my hooks, I've got muscle imbalances in my neck and upper shoulders from so much time using a chainsaw, I've got tendenitis in my elbows from advancing my friction knot and climbing in general, If I footlock a whole lot my foot starts to hurt, A touch of carpal tunnel from orchard pruning with the felcos, I threw my back out once checking my mirrors while cranking the wheel during a tight chipper maneuver,I think I got a mild hernia from loading chunks of oak into the back of a full chip truck,countless cornea scratches from sawchips finding there way through my ansi approvedsafety glasses, but what I really hate is when the pole pruner cord snaps me in the wee-wee.

 

[TREETX]

I have heard more people complaining about sore knees and sore shins from hooks than from footlocking.

Nice to see you lads have held the house down while I was away

 

[SteveBullman]

i dont footlock, but dont wear spurs for prunes either....i dont have a trouble with advancing with alternating lines, main line and flipline. i certainly dont NEED spikes to climb a tree. i do wear them on every removal though, regardless of size, i love spiking.

 

[xtremetrees]

Today I footlocked up about 85feet into a water oak.
Switched over to a prussic and pruned the tree for deadwood from the top down.

I would say spikes are more painful to my knees. But nospikes are more painful to my back and soles of my feet from standing in tight crotches err something like that:rockn:

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i don't think that Tom was advocating spurs; just commenting on spurless strategies.

i've had a footlocking injury a number of years ago; but that didn't lead me to using spurs on trimming. For, the truth has leaked out; wearing spurs on trims does damage to the tree that you say you are helping. Many times in trees with good CODIT responses, the spur damage outlast the damage of properly made cuts. After all, a proper cut tries not to harm the parent that the spurs are tearing up, and also tries not to make torn fibers in the cut, that the spurs make in said parent; all the way up to the cut.

i was always frustrated with speed etc. on foot locking. The one time i thought i was getting it; i ended up in the emergency room the next day, after frantically going to chiropractor and regular doctor, then deciding i should go into the emergency room. i had partially popped my hip out the day before they said. i passed out from the pain soon after getting there and telling them i was going into shock during the paperwork.

i had been lifting my legs up extra far the day before, almost to a yoga type position; knees out to side, with soles facing each other, to get extra length with each thrust up. Mostly to make up for my short legs that the strategy uses for ascending(legs are so short; that when i stand they barely reach the ground). When footlocking, knees should stay over feets; not leveraged to side!

i might footlock 15-20' anymore when in tree (rarely). For ascending; i go with Pantin, and Kong double handled ascender; that pushes a modification of the self tending Sailor's Gripping Hitch up, as a prussik type safety grab to second the Kong's cam; as SRT (Single Rope Tom) recommends. Pantin being a great help to ascend, but not a real 'countable' safety grab on rope.

So, that is my take on both sides of the issue going spurless, and footlocking. It has been tough sometimes; but right is right, and spurs are wrong on trims.

 

[jmack]

Was looking around on the website Tom Dunlap is involved with. He said that footlocking was hard on the body, that legs were not made to bend like that and that injuries of the permanent kind have resulted. He advised using the pantin and something else. I am pointing this out for peoples benefit, all I hear is how spurless is best, faster and so on. Ocassionally the truth leaks out, like it is hard and some people get pulled up the tree by others or machines. In the same vien, previously on this site there was all kinds of talk about rigging down massive chunks of wood and how this was ok. After looking into things I found fatality reports and warnings about this practice, disputing the "ok" bs, backing up my contentions. The last thing I expect here is for people who spurless climb to honestly speak about this and problems with footlocking but maybe I will be suprised. Footlocking always looked painfull and stupid to me, now I am right, again, it seems.

body thrusting is even harder on the body especially when away from the trunk. uh rigging down huge chunks of wood is part of da job oh and why is footlocking stupid? not looking for a beef just an honest convo j

 

[xtremetrees]

i don't think that Tom was advocating spurs; just commenting on spurless strategies. but right is right, and spurs are wrong on trims.

I hacked you man, nice post

 

[Bermie]

I've got nerve damage in my shins from so much time in my hooks, I've got muscle imbalances in my neck and upper shoulders from so much time using a chainsaw, I've got tendenitis in my elbows from advancing my friction knot and climbing in general, If I footlock a whole lot my foot starts to hurt, A touch of carpal tunnel from orchard pruning with the felcos, I threw my back out once checking my mirrors while cranking the wheel during a tight chipper maneuver,I think I got a mild hernia from loading chunks of oak into the back of a full chip truck,countless cornea scratches from sawchips finding there way through my ansi approvedsafety glasses, but what I really hate is when the pole pruner cord snaps me in the wee-wee.

Oh my that was a good post! I laughed out loud at the end, sorry boys!

 

[pigwot]

The human foot has a natural lateral rotation of about 5 degrees left and right when you lift and lower your leg in a repetitive manner, such as when riding a bicycle or climbing a ladder. When you climb on spurs, you limit this range of motion, due to the spikes biting into the wood and not allowing the ankle to rotate in the lateral direction when you climb a tree. The result is that the knees take more of the rotation, leading to stress and the potential for breakdown of the structure of the knees.
Footlocking isn't a panacea either, as it can also tend to put undue stress on the tibial collateral ligament.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

Are people really still using spikes to prune???? Call the tree police!

A proper footlock technique should be like a golf swing--timing, and pace, are more important than brute strength.

To avoid injury NEVER footlock with your spurs on!!

 

[Ax-man]

I agree, good technique and form are the key, forget about speed that is for the competions. Personally I much prefer the single line footlock on a false crotch friction saver for medium size trees, the double rope method is for tall trees. I know it is more work pulling 2 ft of rope and only gaining a foot of height, but it easier to me on the body and a nice relaxing way to get up in a tree. If I need to take a quick break or need to make an adjustment to get around a limb it is way more comfortable having your climbing hitch following along with you if you have to stop, than hanging by a prussik loop that is over your head and having to stand on a lock of rope. Using a combo of a few arm pulls and pull slack with your feet or just using the bigger muscles in your legs in conjuction with your arms will get up into tree easy enough and not as tiring.