girdling root question

[begleytree]

A couple days ago I removed a mostly dead crimson king maple at the local township cemetary. Stats- 24"dbh single leader, top and 3 sides dead, falling apart all over the headstones.
Odd part was, the side living had a huge 4-6" girdling root. The rest of the exposed root flare looked fine.
info-the closest grave was dated 1950's, and the rest were very late 1800s to early 1920s, so I think we can rule out root disturbance from digging. It sat about 30 feet off the paved road that meanders through the 10 acre grounds.
I could see no evidence of chemical use, and having previously received the bid pack on it, there are no herbicides allowed by use of the contractor. All weedeat, and blow debris off headstones. It is situated on top of a hill, with moderately steep sides, I believe them to be worried about erosion in the case of a complete kill by spray. I could find no evidence of weedeater damage to the tree. btw, it was soild, no evidence of ants whatsoever, and since this tree had been declining for several years, I thought that odd.
So, my question is what could have killed this tree, but was hindered by the girdling root? All I could come up with was road salt.
But, my total premise could be way off to begin with, and the G root was just incidental.
Any ideas? I have to grind the stump out this week, so I'll report anything unusual about what I can see inside the rootball.

On a side note, about 50 feet away from the tree was a marker, the kind given by the VA for vets. This guy died in the early 1800s, was a pvt with the NY artillery, and on the va marker it stated he was present at the surrender of Gen. Cornwallace (sp?)
We found it cool.
-Ralph

 

[Urban Forester]

What % of the trunk was affected by the pressure point? Norway Maples are genetically pre-disposed to girdling roots. The pressure applied causes the conductive tissue to slowly stop functioning. While the xylem tissue IS affected the real problem is phoelm tissue death. As it slowly shuts down due to the pressure created, it deprivies the roots of needed sugars/carbohydrates and that causes root death. It is not uncommon for the effect to have no corolation to the location of the deadwood. My guess is the tree died as a result of a long-term girdling root problem.

...Cornwallis

 

[xander9727]

I concur with UF. Girdling roots are BAD!

 

[begleytree]

UF, I'd estimate every bit of 20%, that being about 20% of the trees top root structure was crossed by the G root.
I know G roots are bad, thats why it was odd to see it encircling the only living part of the tree. Odd at least to me.

cornwallis- right, ground the stump today, and went over to double check that my spelling was wrong.
-Ralph

 

[treeseer]

only 20'%, that's not bad. no other root defects found while grinding? I was going to theorize that the grain was twisted, to explain why the dieback was on the other side. like the same reason lightning streaks sometimes spiral.

 

[begleytree]

Guy, I didn't see anything abnormal, no rot, good root spread.

re-spiral I hadn't thought of that, my first thought was that the G root should have affected the side it was on.
So are we blaming the tree's demise on the G root entirely?

I wish I'd have had a chance to see this tree a few years ago, before the decline. But, a guy is busy, and the local twp as a rule, does not trim trees, or worry of tree health. I mostly only get to see a tree from them when it's time for removal. In the last 4 years I've been the sole contractor, I've only been able to successfully advocate trimming once, and that was at a new park where 3 trees shade the new(er) covered picnic area (uplift job). I remove mostly dead elms from the roadsides, or trees that need to come out for road/bridge projects. It was a shame to lose, as it was the largest tree in the cemetary, and one many people enjoyed their lunches beneath. We had a few folks remark that they hated to see it go, but knew it was dead, while we were working there.
-Ralph

 

[treeseer]

So are we blaming the tree's demise on the G root entirely?

-Ralph

Only 20%?? no, there were other factors at play. this does reinforce the need to examine root collars routinely, though.

 

[KentuckySawyer]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone will), but I know that I have read that some tree species will "self-graft" in the occurence of a girdling root. With that in mind I would wonder if girdling roots are always bad.

I don't know that I've ever seen a girdling root in the forest, so I assume this is a problem caused by man-made factors.

How deep do some of you dig, when excavating for girdling roots?

 

[xander9727]

You rarely see girdling roots in the forest for two reasons. 1) Most forest trees were never balled and burlaped or container grown or planted in a basket. 2) Competetion for sunlight/nutrients usually cuts short the life of genetically inferior trees (those more suseptable to girdling roots) prevention them from acheiving maturity.

 

[treeman45246]

Looks like I overlooked this thread previously, but I'm pretty interested. Around here I can't get a Crimson King to reach much more than 24 inches. When they reach that size (or smaller in many cases) they start to thin from the top of branches down, with some branches healthy and others in various states of decline. I was told at one time that this was Verticillium, but state lab testing gave the all-too-common answer of "no conclusive evidence" Years later I worked for the yellow company which has its own labs, and they too were inconclusive about the disease, but pictures confirmed the most likely candidate was a vascular system-blocking fungus. I have taken down 15-20 of these trees, with this particular form of dieback. Vascular streaking is hard to find, not prevalent as it is in the Cornell books, and 2 labs testing 12 or so different samples have been unable to give a positive ID for Verticillium, but that's as close as I can come to an answer for you. The result is always the same on these trees: basal pruning. Ask questions if you have any, as I'm quite interested in getting others' opinions on this. And if you know of a large Crimson King in our area, Xander, let me know where it is.

 

[xander9727]

I'll think for a while which clients have mature Crimson Kings........I'll also keep my eyes pealed for them when working/bidding.

 

[treeseer]

Treeman, did you find the flare on any of those?

Yeah the yellow lab doesn't always crack the case...

 

[treeman45246]

I'd call them typical Norway flares for the most part, and by that I mean there were some issues with girdling. I wasn't fully into root collar excavation for about half these trees, as it was a few years back, but I would not suspect it was the only culprit leading to the tree's demise. That said, girdling roots could certainly have contributed. My main problem in all of this is that this pattern of decline seems to be exclusive to the Crimson King. Norways with green leaves have the same planting problems, the same number of girdling roots, but decline in a more typical pattern.

 

[Sheshovel]

Acer's are prone to Verticillium wilt.
If that is the disease you think a tree may have then look for yellowish,brown streaks in the outer rings of
the wood of the infected branches.
That is one of the signs this disease shows.
One limb or the whole tree can be affected ,some wilt,yellow and defoliate and die suddenly..whereas
others gradually decline over a period of years.

Treatment recommended is to prune out all dead branches and fertilize to stimulate vigorous growth.
Remove badly infected trees and as many roots as possible..and do not replant other suseptible trees in the same area
Ailanthus,Catalpa,Black locust,Elm,Kentucky coffie tree,Linden,Redbud,Smoke tree,Tulip tree,Yellow wood,and of course Maple
Quoted from the book
Organic Plant Protection..Rodale Press

 

[Sheshovel]

I know this sounds strange but I am of the opinion that a trees root system works like our brains do..the right affects and controls growth on the left side of the tree and the left affects and controls growth on the right.
This is purely my personal thought on the subject with no science to back it up..just some personal observation where I have seen death of branches on the opposite side of the tree where root damage has occurred.

 

[xander9727]

I just did a removal in Amberly on Thursday. They had a large Acer platanoides in the yard. I excavated around the basal flair and found 4 girdled roots. Two were 2-3 inches in diameter, the other two were under an inch. I removed all four. The tree was 22" dbh and has been slowly starting to decline. I'll let you know how it does over the next year.

 

[treeman45246]

Sounds good, Xander. Was this a Crimson King or a green-leaved variety? I've seen the green ones get huge, it's the Crimson King in particular I've seen these problems with. You going to Columbus for the OTCC Feb. 13-14th?

 

[xander9727]

The tree was a Crimson King. My wife has to go to Wisconsin next week for an epilepsy study. I will accompany her unless she is pregnant. We find out Thursday if she is pregnant. If so they have to cancel the study and I'll go to the show. I let ya know in a couple days.

 

[treeman45246]

If you go, look me up. I'll be running the municipal program, so I won't get out of that room much, but I should be easy to find. Dr. Coder is doing a program on lightening which promises to be good, plus there's one on culling deer here in our parks which may or may not appeal to you... And I hope the wife is pregnant, we're expecting our first in July.