GMO - Organic & what the hell!!!

[dingeryote]

If you use an organic fertilizer source, it is still important to get a soil test regularity. Organic fertilizer does not contain all of the essential plant nutrients in a balanced form. Most are quite high in potassium or phosphorous, but are low in nitrogen or sulphur.

Not to mention most of the commercial "Organic" fertilizers are fraudulent scams of unknown content.

More than one has been busted for selling other than labeled garbage, and some of it contained prohibited substances.
Most of the "Organic" sulphur sold in this country has turned out to be of Chineese origin, and was heavily contaminated with heavy metals...yet for some reason the Organic Dinks seem to think it's healthier than known and proven methods, that have sound science and standards, as well as oversight behind them.

Rattlesnake venom is "Natural", go ahead, put that on your green beans along with the ecoli and choliform. Bon apitite!!

Only an idiot blindly ammends soil, and expects results.
Only a bigger idiot buys into the Organic industrys disinformation and outright lies.

 

[farmer steve]

Not to mention most of the commercial "Organic" fertilizers are fraudulent scams of unknown content.

More than one has been busted for selling other than labeled garbage, and some of it contained prohibited substances.
Most of the "Organic" sulphur sold in this country has turned out to be of Chineese origin, and was heavily contaminated with heavy metals...yet for some reason the Organic Dinks seem to think it's healthier than known and proven methods, that have sound science and standards, as well as oversight behind them.

Rattlesnake venom is "Natural", go ahead, put that on your green beans along with the ecoli and choliform. Bon apitite!!

Only an idiot blindly ammends soil, and expects results.
Only a bigger idiot buys into the Organic industrys disinformation and outright lies.

 

[NCTREE]

[q uote="dingeryote, post: 4688477, member: 30902"]Not to mention most of the commercial "Organic" fertilizers are fraudulent scams of unknown content.

More than one has been busted for selling other than labeled garbage, and some of it contained prohibited substances.
Most of the "Organic" sulphur sold in this country has turned out to be of Chineese origin, and was heavily contaminated with heavy metals...yet for some reason the Organic Dinks seem to think it's healthier than known and proven methods, that have sound science and standards, as well as oversight behind them.

Rattlesnake venom is "Natural", go ahead, put that on your green beans along with the ecoli and choliform. Bon apitite!!

Only an idiot blindly ammends soil, and expects results.
Only a bigger idiot buys into the Organic industrys disinformation and outright lies.[/quote]how can compost and fish emulsion be a scam and fraudulent? Please explain why I'm an idiot please! Is cotton seed meal fraudulent too?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NCTREE]

Not to mention most of the commercial "Organic" fertilizers are fraudulent scams of unknown content.

More than one has been busted for selling other than labeled garbage, and some of it contained prohibited substances.
Most of the "Organic" sulphur sold in this country has turned out to be of Chineese origin, and was heavily contaminated with heavy metals...yet for some reason the Organic Dinks seem to think it's healthier than known and proven methods, that have sound science and standards, as well as oversight behind them.

Rattlesnake venom is "Natural", go ahead, put that on your green beans along with the ecoli and choliform. Bon apitite!!

Only an idiot blindly ammends soil, and expects results.
Only a bigger idiot buys into the Organic industrys disinformation and outright lies.

Let's here these out right lies too, every industry has a dark side but it a proven fact that organic fertilizers( not granular pellet form organic fertilizer as you are pointing out) are better for the soil and the environment. So go ahead eating your miracle grow produce I'll stick to what works for me.

this is my girlfriend's winter ORGANIC hoop house which is part of a 15 acre 300 member very successful CSA. I guess that is fraudulent BS too.

You can't have a nice conversation anymore without some jerk starting ****.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jollygreengiant]

I will say that organic (think manure type fertilizers, not the certified kind) are the best types of fertilizers for the soil. However they have limitations. They may not contain all the nutrients a plant needs. And if they do, they may not have enough of some nutrients unless they are applied very heavily.

Then there is the risk of bacterial contamination. Using manure on certain vegetables is not recommended and in some cases illegal, as there is a very high risk of contaminating the food with bacteria such as E. coli. So for these crops the only options are to apply manure a year before the crop is grown, or to use synthetic fertilizers.

Of course other "certified" organic materials that were mentioned above don't have this problem.

 

[farmer steve]

i agree JGG. new produce (read gov. regs.) rules are going to require at least 180 days between manure application and harvest of certain vegetables.also stricter rules for irrigation water.

 

[dingeryote]

Let's here these out right lies too, every industry has a dark side but it a proven fact that organic fertilizers( not granular pellet form organic fertilizer as you are pointing out) are better for the soil and the environment. So go ahead eating your miracle grow produce I'll stick to what works for me.

this is my girlfriend's winter ORGANIC hoop house which is part of a 15 acre 300 member very successful CSA. I guess that is fraudulent BS too.

You can't have a nice conversation anymore without some jerk starting ****.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your claims are based on more ******** than your GF is putting on peoples food.
Good luck with that.

Not knowing what deficiencys exist, and blindly making ammendments with unkonown and unverified materials, leads to soil imbalances and in many cases Nitrogen leaching, and other problems.
Shotgunning decaying animal tissues and biological pathogen ridden matter on peoples food is also not real smart.

Did you ever wonder why people don't keep crusty dog **** in thier refrigerators?
Probably never occured to you, but it's as nasty as keeping **** next to where thier food is grown.

The only fact is that excessive elements from ANY source can be detrimental to the environment, and the only way to approach the matter is starting with knowing what the specific crop needs, and soil deficiencys are, and ammending to the point needed while keeping soil type, irrigation, and carryover in mind.
Adding excessive N or any other ammendment that is not needed, is just as destructive as excessive conventional nutrient bieng applied and breaks down the same with the same effect.

If people are paying your GF for Ecoli, Choliform, Salmonella, Enterococcous spp, slathered veggies from her cute little hothouse, good for her.
I'd like nothing better than all the damn Hippies to eat **** and die, and they are paying her to do it.

 

[farmer steve]

hey dingeryote ,hows the blueberry plants handling the cold temps?

 

[dingeryote]

i agree JGG. new produce (read gov. regs.) rules are going to require at least 180 days between manure application and harvest of certain vegetables.also stricter rules for irrigation water.

USDA requires us to keep Manure piles and compost at least 500' away from the field, and we are not allowed to use Manure/ compost unless it has been tested and verified to be free of a yardarms list of biological pathogens and parasites, record of source along with test result, has to be kept for traceback, and application cannot take place less than 180 from harvest.

Our Ponds, and even the dadgum county drain is sampled and tested 3 times a season, all wells are tested twice a season.

If the auditor finds a single Coyote terd in the field and the mitigation plan not implimented to thier satisfaction, it's a fail.

Last year the Auditor saw Turkey tracks in the field and had a fit, because our wildlife mitigation policy was obviously ineffective and needed review.

For cryin' out loud, I have to keep track of my employees using the restroom, and verifying handwashing on a damn log sheet to keep the buyers GAP/GAMPS certs in line.

And the Hippies are soaking ****, table waste, animal tissues, and rotting vegetation in water, then spraying it on the crop after it has stewed for a couple days.

With the big outbreak and deaths from the "Organic" Ecoli and salmonella in the last couple years, I figured people would wake up.
Nope. They still want to eat **** and die. Darwin was correct.

 

[farmer steve]

my wildlife mitigation policy =270 cal.150 gr, psp. or 12 ga.00 buck. which ever gun is closer

USDA requires us to keep Manure piles and compost at least 500' away from the field, and we are not allowed to use Manure/ compost unless it has been tested and verified to be free of a yardarms list of biological pathogens and parasites, record of source along with test result, has to be kept for traceback, and application cannot take place less than 180 from harvest.


If the auditor finds a single Coyote terd in the field and the mitigation plan not implimented to thier satisfaction, it's a fail.

Last year the Auditor saw Turkey tracks in the field and had a fit, because our wildlife mitigation policy was obviously ineffective and needed review.

With the big outbreak and deaths from the "Organic" Ecoli and salmonella in the last couple years, I figured people would wake up.
Nope. They still want to eat **** and die. Darwin was correct.

 

[dingeryote]

hey dingeryote ,hows the blueberry plants handling the cold temps?

LOL!!!
About as well as I am. A little beat up and frost bit, but not dead yet.

The varietys we have are old school and rather hardy down to around -15F. After that, last seasons new growth gets burnt and provides fungus and disease a pathway.

Just eyeballing, I'm guessing no more than 10% at this point, but once budswell comes on, I'll know better.

I flat quit pruning other than clearance in the middles and damaged canes.
Snows up to my arse, and the freeze damage is going to be all kinds of spotty, so what's the point...I might need those older canes and they can wait until March.

I did find a few tissue shattered canes in our rows of newer varietys, but that just means less but bigger fruit on those things, and they get hand picked anyhow.

The big worry is when the thaw comes. It's looking like we are going to lose bushes from drowning, unless I can figure out how to push water uphill. Dadgum new EPA horseshit about temp drains and ditches and permitting, is going to start the next Civil war.

Hows things on your end?

 

[dingeryote]

my wildlife mitigation policy =270 cal.150 gr, psp. or 12 ga.00 buck. which ever gun is closer

5.56X45 62gr M885, and .45acp 230gr Ball....whichever is closer, seems to work here.

The DNR frowns on taking too many birds, and the 'Yotes have gotten lazy about keeping our bargain.

 

[farmer steve]

LOL!!!
About as well as I am. A little beat up and frost bit, but not dead yet.
Hows things on your end?

same her. hoping the cold kills a few bugs.only thing i'm wooried about is my dads raspberry plants.strawberries and asparagus should be ok. wish we were closer as i can sell lots of BB at my market. i'm getting them now from a guy that hauls several pallets in from jersey every week.most of the time they are ok but sometimes they are not.

 

[NCTREE]

Your claims are based on more ******** than your GF is putting on peoples food.
Good luck with that.

Not knowing what deficiencys exist, and blindly making ammendments with unkonown and unverified materials, leads to soil imbalances and in many cases Nitrogen leaching, and other problems.
Shotgunning decaying animal tissues and biological pathogen ridden matter on peoples food is also not real smart.

Did you ever wonder why people don't keep crusty dog **** in thier refrigerators?
Probably never occured to you, but it's as nasty as keeping **** next to where thier food is grown.

The only fact is that excessive elements from ANY source can be detrimental to the environment, and the only way to approach the matter is starting with knowing what the specific crop needs, and soil deficiencys are, and ammending to the point needed while keeping soil type, irrigation, and carryover in mind.
Adding excessive N or any other ammendment that is not needed, is just as destructive as excessive conventional nutrient bieng applied and breaks down the same with the same effect.

If people are paying your GF for Ecoli, Choliform, Salmonella, Enterococcous spp, slathered veggies from her cute little hothouse, good for her.
I'd like nothing better than all the damn Hippies to eat **** and die, and they are paying her to do it.

Lot of ass-suming about something you have no idea what your talking about. Just another penis who likes to hear himself talk. I feel sorry for people like you, I bet people just love you. lol! Jeez! just get it over with, go put some nickleback in and pull the trigger would you. Your sad outlook on life is just a drag for us happy people. I'm done with you.

 

[dingeryote]

same her. hoping the cold kills a few bugs.only thing i'm wooried about is my dads raspberry plants.strawberries and asparagus should be ok. wish we were closer as i can sell lots of BB at my market. i'm getting them now from a guy that hauls several pallets in from jersey every week.most of the time they are ok but sometimes they are not.

Jersey had a rough time last year with flooding, and overproduction stress causing slow ripening right when the SWD and flooding hit. Just a bad year for them all around.
They should be pretty good this year if they can manage the anthracnose that IS going to be a problem.
Keep an eyeball open for the orange spores on the early and midseason fruit, and don't let them drop off any purples. It's gonna be a bad year for both.

I doubt the Earlyblues, Dukes and Weymouths will be in good supply like last year, so play hardball on the early fruit.
The dadgum Hucksters are already calling around, so they are getting nervous about something.

Would love to haul your way.
Just would have to add another packing line, and barn to put it in.
We are pretty much sold out already unless you want process fruit.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

doctor said i was fine and blood tests came back clear and i grow sweet corn in my garden and other things that are GMO im not dead yet.
and having GMO corn is a blessing don't have to spray it and worms are not a problem anymore. and GMO saves me money on chemicals i don't like to hang around.

 

[Dalmatian90]

i di see a report on organic and they said there was no nutritional diff between organic and non organic.

A lot of organic today is "industrial organic" -- if you're growing carrots in depleted, sandy soil in California or Florida you're going to get carrots poor in nutrients compared to growing in good northern loams. And industrial just gets you into that surreal world of Dingeryote's inspectors freaking out over turkeys in blueberry fields, because the regulators view it as a factory that should be sterile.

You can have good soils with "conventional" agriculture, but it sure makes it easy to run down the quality of the soil and just apply the chemicals that make good looking crops, not that they are necessarily good crops when measured by stuff like nutrients and taste.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/ has some good information.

 

[chuckwood]

Let's here these out right lies too, every industry has a dark side but it a proven fact that organic fertilizers( not granular pellet form organic fertilizer as you are pointing out) are better for the soil and the environment. So go ahead eating your miracle grow produce I'll stick to what works for me.

this is my girlfriend's winter ORGANIC hoop house which is part of a 15 acre 300 member very successful CSA. I guess that is fraudulent BS too.

You can't have a nice conversation anymore without some jerk starting ****.

Well shucks, I thought the place fer fussin' and fightin' was over in the political/religion forum. Well, here's my experience. About ten years ago, I was using synthetic fertilizers and pesticides, otherwise not much of a crop could be expected. The reason being the garden area was just plain old worn out from around 100 years of gardening on that same spot. Many decades ago my dad had rejuvenated it by bringing in truckloads of composted leaves, he basically used the Ruth Stout gardening method and got very good results. He did it all the hard way with no tiller. But as the years went by, he got old, and the garden plot just wore out again as I took over (with plenty of tillers). For the past three years I've been bringing in leaf compost by the tandem dumptruck load. The soil is getting rich, soft, and black. I realize not everybody can do this, but it sure does make an incredible difference. About all I fertilize now is the corn and a few other heavy feeders like okra. Before long, I figure I won't even have to do that. What has *really* impressed me is the fact that I don't have near as much damage from insect pests as before when the soil was in poor shape. Last year I never sprayed my taters except once for flea beetles, and I did that with organic pyrethrin - it probably was not needed, they don't do that much damage - but I had NO potato beetles and my plants were very healthy. Years before, one of the regular chores was spraying Sevin to kill Colorado tater beetles. I hated doing that because I knew that the stuff I was spraying was going to leave residues on the taters and eating Sevin is just not good for you. I'm aiming this year to use only organic pesticides when needed, and if things keep going my way, I won't be using much, if any. I do believe that healthy plants make healthy food.

 

[Dalmatian90]

The soil is getting rich, soft, and black.

I've earned every cubic inch of my garden the hard way over the last 15 years -- the sunniest spot on my property is also nothing but gravel fill that had a thin layer of grass growing on it, if you kept the autumn olive and multiflora rose at bay. I was doing more planting today, and had some really awesome soil except for the residual rocks that keep coming from the gravel base...slowly but surely.

There's organic and GMO-free and all that done as part of system that people are actually passionate about and think a lot about what they're producing.

I am not pure organic, but I use very little non-organic. I finally broke down to use Sevin on my squash last year as I have a terrible problem every year with Squash Vine Borers that it resolved. Half the plants this year will get Sevin dust I know works, the other half will be an experiment with injecting Bt that I think will work (have to inject it since SVB caterpillars grow inside the stems). Bought a small bag of 10-10-10 because my Rhubarb patch has never, ever truly thrived and I think it's time to try and goose it through modern chemistry. I use the synthetic stuff when I've exhausted my practical options for the amount of time, available resources, and knowledge I have to deal with stuff.

There's also...this:

Wonder how much taxpayer money they got to subsidize that factory re-use -- and it's just using organic and GMO-free as marketing buzz, because I don't care how many green words you use, growing vegetables in water under artificial light ain't sustainable, ain't cheap, and I guarantee won't have the human nutritional value of a carrot or head of lettuce grown in a hoophouse over native Minnesota soils properly amended my compost and earthworms partying away, soaking up the light and heat provided for free by the sun.

(The earthworm is actually an invasive species -- southern New England's forests at the time of European settlement had much, much thicker layers of duff because there were no earthworms chewing them up. It's one way our ecosystem will never be restored to what it once was and why "old growth" is a pretty meaningless term in this part of the country. There are parts of Maine, and perhaps NH & VT, still outside of the reach of earthworms, but sometime before the next round of glaciers they'll get to those forests too.)

 

[Marco]

Yup Jim, I rented 320 acres of corn ground and need Atrazine for all of it.