going to build a pipe for my 660

[2000ssm6]

It's real tricky to hold two pieces of sheet together tight enough to TIG them. Find it easiest to tack them with Mig then finish with TIG. Pipes do sometimes crack over time, but have not found any one way of welding them that is better or worse. Though the ones crofter did with torch seem maybe better, but they have seen less abuse too.

Here is a vedio, keep in mind it's still a work saw on pump gas, original carb, no cut off head, boost ports or funky fuel.

Good old wood dyno and stop watch works for me, though I imagine I could find use for a dyno.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyNt-E6VxHM

 

[troutfisher]

WIth torch you have to watch the mill scale that comes off on the inside of the pipes. Would be easy for this to flake off and get injested by the engine.

yup, I fill'em with soapy water and a handful of nuts and shake it. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Metals406]

There's a reason O>A welding, and TIG are used for automotive body work, and sheet stock work all together. The MIG process makes a harder weld than the parent material, and will crack with cyclical loading or work stresses like body hammer, English Wheel, shot bag, or sustained vibration. The HAZ is different with each process as well. The best MIG technique I've used is 'pulse' or 'trigger-welding'... Crank up the heat, and make a series of very hot 'tack' welds. This technique seems to be less prone to burn through, cracking, and you can still achieve @ or near 100% pen.

Stress relieving a welded pipe would be fairly simple, and somewhat foolproof. Bring said object up to 400°-500° for about 30 minutes (at that temperature), so an hour dwell time may be better for simplicity sake. Allow the part to cool slowly... Turning the oven off and not opening the door would work fine.

I've found that sandblasting a part works extremely well for weld stress relief as well... Conceptually, the principle behind it very similar to 'peening', but more closely related to a form of VSR.

Weld up a pipe, sand blast it, and anneal it... The finish wouldn't look bad either... One could argue that using the pipe would anneal it, but it would be very uneven.

 

[CHEVYTOWN13]

There's a reason O>A welding, and TIG are used for automotive body work, and sheet stock work all together. The MIG process makes a harder weld than the parent material, and will crack with cyclical loading or work stresses like body hammer, English Wheel, shot bag, or sustained vibration. The HAZ is different with each process as well. The best MIG technique I've used is 'pulse' or 'trigger-welding'... Crank up the heat, and make a series of very hot 'tack' welds. This technique seems to be less prone to burn through, cracking, and you can still achieve @ or near 100% pen.

Stress relieving a welded pipe would be fairly simple, and somewhat foolproof. Bring said object up to 400°-500° for about 30 minutes (at that temperature), so an hour dwell time may be better for simplicity sake. Allow the part to cool slowly... Turning the oven off and not opening the door would work fine.

I've found that sandblasting a part works extremely well for weld stress relief as well... Conceptually, the principle behind it very similar to 'peening', but more closely related to a form of VSR.

Weld up a pipe, sand blast it, and anneal it... The finish wouldn't look bad either... One could argue that using the pipe would anneal it, but it would be very uneven.

Awesome info Nathan.

 

[Nitroman]

It's real tricky to hold two pieces of sheet together tight enough to TIG them. Find it easiest to tack them with Mig then finish with TIG. Pipes do sometimes crack over time, but have not found any one way of welding them that is better or worse. Though the ones crofter did with torch seem maybe better, but they have seen less abuse too.

Here is a vedio, keep in mind it's still a work saw on pump gas, original carb, no cut off head, boost ports or funky fuel.

Good old wood dyno and stop watch works for me, though I imagine I could find use for a dyno.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyNt-E6VxHM

Yeah bey-beh! That's smokin'!!

 

[Crofter]

Nice looking job! Notice no over rev and hardly any drop when it hits the wood or winding up during switchovers. I think you were right on with the dimensions. The saw did not have to get on tiptoe to get up onto the pipe or drop revs to come down to where the pipe was hitting!

 

[breymeyerfam]

what does pipe biulding services cost? ie: give someone all the spec and they build one for me. what thickness material are most using?

 

[Crofter]

what does pipe biulding services cost? ie: give someone all the spec and they build one for me. what thickness material are most using?

http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=43875&highlight=tuned+pipe#

Try this link to a past post that will give you some price ranges and rehash of pros and cons. It will likely not be possible to get anyone dependable to make a pipe without having to saw to mount and test it. I think a few names are mentioned. It is more usual to get a pipe made in connection with a porting job as few dependable people want their name connected with something they have not had a chance to test personally. The ball busting in the game, while occasionally warranted, makes people wary.

 

[breymeyerfam]

I thing the only real problem that arrises for me in the whole process is rolling the pieces. the fitting and welding may be tedious and time consuming but that doesn't bother me, i just dont have the tools to roll. how much would it cost to have a sheet metal shop roll my pieces?

 

[troutfisher]

I hammer out my cones. I use different sizes of steel pipe and body hammers. I also have a couple exhaust pipe expanding cones to bang sheet metal.

 

[troutfisher]

Here's a 3120 I did, I made the pipe in construction paper first. It's easy to trim, shape, and measure. Once I had the shape I wanted I layed it out on steel, cut it out, rolled and welded. Here's a video of the saw in 10" Aspen............

http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w195/Troutfisher_photo/?action=view&current=pipe003.flv

 

[breymeyerfam]

I guess I hadn't thought about hammering the pieces... :monkey:

Now I just need to tear down the saw again to degree every thing and start working out the dimentions, which i will post on here for evaluation and comments.

 

[breymeyerfam]

ok for some real questions... single stage diffuser cone or multi stage cone? after much reading. most disagree on which is best. which cone type would be better for my application?

 

[Metals406]

I guess I hadn't thought about hammering the pieces... :monkey:

Now I just need to tear down the saw again to degree every thing and start working out the dimentions, which i will post on here for evaluation and comments.

Pipe material is pretty thin... This roll from HF rolls down to 1" radius.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=36698

 

[breymeyerfam]

what material thickness is most people using? I also thought about using slightly thicker in the header section for added strength... would the different thickesses expand at different rates and cause cracks and the joint between different thicknesses??

 

[Hddnis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FjEr07TuN8&feature=channel


Why not just do a work port job so it cuts like this 660? Video is from TW's collection on youtube.



Mr. HE

 

[timberwolf]

Hddnis

Got to agree with you, If I was going to take the time to build a pipe and had the math skills to design peramiters of how a motor runs I would certainly be porting the motor first as bigger initial gains can be had and down the road to maximize the gains a pipe will give. Pipe first is putting the horse behind the cart.

Taking a piped stock saw at a race is like taking a mini to a crash up derby.

Any kind of race and they won't let you run a pipe in the stock class and anyone with any sort of modified saw in a modified class will have you and your pipe for breakfast and make you pipe look pretty sad...

 

[PLAYINWOOD]

what material thickness is most people using? I also thought about using slightly thicker in the header section for added strength... would the different thickesses expand at different rates and cause cracks and the joint between different thicknesses??

24 gauge cold rolled mild steel seems to be the material of choice.Stainless would look to cool though.
Breymeyerfam, use the search option lots of good pipe discussion.


Frank or Brian, have either of you used a argon purge/tig process. I think the scale, sugar problems would be almost eliminated.

 

[breymeyerfam]

i already mildly ported this saw and it runs fairly well now, but want more for gtg fun without making this a pipe only saw.

link to porting thread:http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=1549481#post1549481

 

[timberwolf]

either of you used a argon purge/tig process?

Thought about it, but would be pretty hard to set up without welding inside a glove box.

With mild steel the sugar is pretty mild, with stainless it's more an issue. Bigger problem with stainless is the warping and cracking. Other than stainless looking cool it's just cost and headache.

Buddy wants to build a titanium pipe, that will take full shielding to weld, sheet stock alone is about $150 and filler priced buy the foot not the lb.