Granberg vs. Holzforma 36" Alaskan Mill (A Comparison)

[JohnWayne]

Alright, so I went through with it and bought the Holzforma mill from China, via Ebay. Total cost was 137USD shipped. I took some measurements to help with the comparison and will provide you with my general impression of each of the pieces.

Warning! I had to go back and directly attach the images as they do not show up for some app viewers when just linking to my album photos, so there are A LOT of relatively large photos. Low bandwidth beware.

This is the full package, laid out with all the pieces. Other than the mill frame it comes with a scrench (Phillips head), a small open ended wrench, a little synthetic zipper bag to hold the tools, and some cute tiny gloves. I have since relinquished the gloves to my Wife, nothing really to report there.



All the comparison posts are described with the Granberg on the left and Holz on the right. Keep in mind that the Granberg mill has been used several times over the past three years, so there is some schmu and wear on those parts.


Enjoy!

 

[JohnWayne]

Pictured is the square tube used for the cross brace and the metal strap which is used to bind it to the rails, as well as mount the handle.

Granberg tube:
178g
1.126"x1.125”
Overall, minus finish, identical dimensions in width and height

Holz:
174g, painted
0.075” longer
1.127x1.125” difference likely due to paint film thickness

Granberg Metal Strap:
68g
Same outer dimensions
0.129” thick
Holes crisp and square

Holz:
232g
0.157” thickness
Weird round stamping on one side, crisp on the other

 

[JohnWayne]

Brackets used to for post mounts and attachment to the rails.

Granberg:
387g
Labeled part number N2 782
Mating surface for mounting is lightly machined for better contact with rails, overall dimensions are extremely close, likely the same casting is used.

Holz:
367g

The pictures show the similarities well:

 

[JohnWayne]

Next is the rails, both the square tube and the round rail that feeds through the bracket.

The square rails have identical dimensions. G weight is 586g, H 610g. I believe the difference in weight can be attributed to the paint used on the Holz parts.

Granberg round rail:
692g
0.876” OD

Holz:
749g
0.861” OD
Very shiny, noticeably heavier.

 

[JohnWayne]

Nose end clamp assemblies.

Granberg lower:
426g
1.005x1.001”

Holz:
295g
0.991x0.987”
Noticeably smaller welds

The posts have identical dimensions. Granberg is 1023g and Holz is 839g. The welds are also noticeably smaller on the Holz here as well. Also, note the quality difference between the height markings on each of the posts.

 

[JohnWayne]

Power head end bar clamps and posts. The dimensions are identical between the two just like the nose ends. The same differences are present in the welds, weight, and height markings.

Granberg Lower: 625g Holz Lower: 513g
Granberg Upper: 1210g Holz Upper: 1045g

 

[JohnWayne]

Handle and nose guard.

Granberg handle:
242g
Softer, better feeling grip

Holz:
220g
Slick feeling plastic

Granberg Nose Guard:
0.062” thickness
Overall better feel and more even bend

Holz:
0.052” thickness

 

[JohnWayne]

Finally, a comparison of the miscellaneous parts that hold this all together.

U-bolt: both weigh 50g and have .265"OD

U-bolt clamp pad: Identical dimensions G: 17g, H: 15G

Washers: weight was measured by averaging ten each G: 1.7g, H: 1.6g

Long sleeve style nuts:
Granberg:
16.5g
0.878” H
0.498” D
0.129” Wall and Thread
0.265” ID

Holz:
19g
0.984” H
0.511” D
0.120” Wall and thread
0.282” ID

Shoulder bolts:
Granberg:
14g
Cleaner, larger, more robust in
appearanceThreaded OD 0.310”
Square shoulder 0.310”

Holz:
12g
No markings, rougher overall
appearance
Threaded OD 0.302"
Square shoulder 0.307"

As a note, all hardware is interchangeable as a set between the mill parts, but you cannot mix and match the hardware between manufacturers. Example: Holz nuts do not work with Granberg bolts; Holz nuts and bolts work with Granberg frame.

 

[JohnWayne]

I have milled a few logs with this mill frame since I did my initial comparison. Also, I assembled the mill and made all adjustments to it with the tools included, just to see if it came with everything needed.

Overall, for 137USD, this mill isn’t bad. Some stuff that I ran into is the handle doesn’t line up perpendicular to the rails. This didn’t affect the operation of the mill in any way, it is just something to note. Also, the posts are not perfectly plumb when assembled. Other than some light binding when adjusting the cut depth, this does not affect operation of the mill. It didn’t bow the bar and belly the cut, or anything like that. I haven’t fully determined if the out of plumb posts are cause by the post clamp pad and u-bolt fitting into the casting or the weird excess material on the mating surface of the bracket where it meets the rails (See pictures of brackets). I believe it is the latter, and will confirm as soon as I get around to filing the mating surface flat.

So there you have it, I hope this was useful for somebody.

 

[Bedford T]

I thought it was well built. I did not have one to compare it with. Mostly it's construction seems beefier if I am reading this correctly. Which is a good thing. The nose is shaped slightly off but it seemed heavy and had plenty of room.

I found using a 24" bar with a sprocket..making the cutting width smaller, it bowed slightly. After reading this it must have been a natural thing to occur.

 

[marti384]

Thanks for the write up. What is the max width of cut of the Chinese one?

 

[JohnWayne]

Thanks for the write up. What is the max width of cut of the Chinese one?

The maximum possible but is the same as the granberg, about 33" if you have the bar to support it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Marshy]

Do they have larger (wider cuts) available?

 

[Bedford T]

You should check out logsol, 50 some inches is about most for a Alaskan

 

[BobL]

You should check out logsol, 50 some inches is about most for a Alaskan

Where does the 50" limit come from?
Alaskans can make cuts up to the limits of the lengths of mill rails and bars available?.
Some fellas on this forum have 84" bar setups, and I have heard of one with a 96" bar.

 

[Bedford T]

Where does the 50" limit come from?
Alaskans can make cuts up to the limits of the lengths of mill rails and bars available?.
Some fellas on this forum have 84" bar setups, and I have heard of one with a 96" bar.

Google, didn't see anything beyond 58. I guess you just make longer rails then. So if they can be shorter they can also be longer. Schooled.

So where is the reference for maximum bar length per cc or model saw. I have been searching for information. Looks like there would be a formula somewhere. What saw can effectively run a 96" bar?

 

[BobL]

Google, didn't see anything beyond 58. I guess you just make longer rails then. So if they can be shorter they can also be longer. Schooled.

60" is a relatively common bar size on 100+cc saws

So where is the reference for maximum bar length per cc or model saw. I have been searching for information. Looks like there would be a formula somewhere.

There's no hard and fast rule for bar sizes and powerhead cc - it depends on things like wood hardness, and chain setups.
Given that the max size saws currently available are around 120cc, CSMers with long bars generally live with the speeds they can get.
Some use double ended dual-powerhead, setups, and some use skip chain to ease power head loads.
It is even possible to use a 60" bar on a 90cc saw, just got to accept it's not going to cut fast.
Above about 50" bar sag becomes an issue but it doesn't stop folks using them.

What saw can effectively run a 96" bar?

A Stihl 090 (137cc) could run a 96" bar.

This a pic of my dad in 1958, with his 2 man, 96" bar, 250cc , Teles Smith power head with less HP than a modern 120cc saw. In an 8 hour day they spent 4 hours a day sharpening and fiddling with the saw. No muffler which is what dad completely lost hearing in one ear and most of the hearing in the other.

 

[SeMoTony]

You should check out logsol, 50 some inches is about most for a Alaskan

refer my avatar, 60" cannon bar in that alaskan with no sag showing up. I am making alaskan style frame for 72" dual powered cannon saw miller bar. Heavier/sturdier components but same design. There is really no limit to length in use of the design if you have a stiff bar (-; And even Bobl has a pimped out sag avoiding magnet system to level bar at beginning of cut.

 

[Bedford T]

I have recently seen what Bob is capable of and it's a treat. But when normal folk talk about 50+ is about maximum that does not mean experts can't do more. We mortals live in a world different than Bob and lesser experts than yourself. Not to say I could not learn and come close to defying norms. But putting too long of a bar on a 661 is like surfing the web with 256 ram and a 386 processor. Painful comes to mind. I so don't doubt the 090 capability with a great chain. This all is great. One day it will fall in place for me, I am gathering stuff.

 

[SeMoTony]

I have recently seen what Bob is capable of and it's a treat. But when normal folk talk about 50+ is about maximum that does not mean experts can't do more. We mortals live in a world different than Bob and lesser experts than yourself. Not to say I could not learn and come close to defying norms. But putting too long of a bar on a 661 is like surfing the web with 256 ram and a 386 processor. Painful comes to mind. I so don't doubt the 090 capability with a great chain. This all is great. One day it will fall in place for me, I am gathering stuff.

Ms-460 is pulling a skip chisel by Oregon around that 60" bar in avatar. 72cc IIRC patience with my easy on the powerhead to use in place of abuse my equipment. I have a lot of enjoyment that comes from seeing the fresh green surface come out of the slice.
Title "Want to go bigger-- lets see your Giant CSM's" about page three will show you how others have built stiff enough frames to keep level support with bar. None of us were born knowing how to do this just right, we as a group have learned from those doing this before us. And even along side us at same time ,as you may do by eyeballing it all, modifying to correct,asking questions of the rest of us and sharing answers with this community