"Guardian" cabling systems

[tophopper]

:deadhorse:

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

If I understand it right this system is a locking brummel eye with some tube webbing for friction interface.

After Seems that rope spools run around $35 for shipping so figure 1.11/ft for the cord, they dont list the cost of the tube, figure .20/ft

The tools would be some electric a scissors and their neat little fid that has a web of wire that traps the rope to be burried.

It looks do'able to me.

 

[tophopper]

 

[seanlarkin]

From Tobe:

It's not "non-invasive like Cobra" because Cobra uses a self-adjusting
splice, the rope that you speak of uses a "permanent" brummel splice.
Superior UV protection? Ask for proof. Since there's no English translation
of Cobra's UV data I wonder what they're (Mr. Sacket is) comparing it to.

"Worth trying just because you can install multiple cables for less and
still make more money?" You can do this with chrome plated chain from Home
Depot. If the customer's not willing to pay for reasonable service then why
butcher the tree for whatever you can get?

The fact is that this new cable product is so poorly thought through that it
doesn't even have sales literature, much less instructions. A rope that's
permanently spliced around the tree has nothing to offer customers (even
cheap ones) if it doesn't come with specific guidelines for the customer to
monitor and adjust it before it girdles the tree. For reference, run down to
the local Biff Burger and check out the guyed and girdled tree plantings
from 3 years ago. Waste of money, waste of time and most certainly a waste
of trees.

Here are the facts; Tony's promoting this as a "flat rope, that gently
cradles the tree." When rope (every rope) comes tight or is hit with dynamic
load) it narrows down into a round, rod-like shape that's as hard as a rock!
Without something to force it flat (as with Cobra inserts) the tree is
subjected to constant bruising (with or without running through a cordura
tube). This is why other Europeans use wide eye&eye slings around the tree.
Also, this product has no shock absorbing member. As we all know, rope
looses recoverable elongation with use and becomes less and less dynamic
over time. This is why Cobra uses a separate and long lasting shock
absorber.

The use for this system? Insurance only. Very loose, very big eyes (or girth
hitched to choke if failure takes place) or on the boat.

Please excuse what may sound like personal attacks, it's not intended.
Writing sometimes comes across this way. I would love to debate this further
as time permits. Best of luck to all, especially those who CARE ABOUT TREES
at Fresco.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I like Cobra and use it several times a year.

I see an aplication for the Guardian in older trees that will have slower caliper growth at the anchor point. If you have only 1/8 inch of growth per year then it will take around 8 years for 3 inchs of girth.

I've spoke to Howard from NER on rrigging ropes and melting in friction break applications. He is of the opinion that the peoblem is not in the heat tolerance of the rope, but the pliability of the construction. when loaded the softer ropes go flat agains the drum, presenting more surface area and actualy tearing the fibers before melting.

So I can see Frescos claim that the rope will flatten out against the tree.

The fact that Cobra has more study behind it does speak volumes for people who have low risk tolerance in their applications. Using an untried product does open your comapany up to greater liability incase soemthing goes to court.

 

[Frans]

Will this chrome plated chain from Home Depot work on my pink christmas tree from Dupont?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I sent Tony Sackett this page and he responded to some of the issues listed above.

I acsidentaly deleted the message before copying the entire responce here.

But I do remember add this correction to my comments.

The guardian system uses a Brummel splice "Through-through-bury" not a locking Brummel.

He does use that rope on he boat and for that uses a locking brummel.

 

[tophopper]

 

[seanlarkin]

John,
I am sorry that Tobe's comments weren't received well by you. He and I are incredibly busy working on our catalog right now, and when he found a couple minutes to write a response, he certainly did not hae time to go through it and sweeten it up. He even apologized for how it sounded. In this instance I am merely the messenger. I will say this though, Tobe is absolutely on top of the cabling/bracing scene. Some will say his view is skewed because he is obviously a retailer, but if you could see the amount of reseach on cabling/bracing Tobe does ALL YEAR ROUND, you would know better.
To sum up, Tobe's response was quickly written, and based on information he knows, what he's seen of the Guardian, and the responses here (not all accurate, ie JPS saying locking Brummel at first).
I'd also invite this discussion back in May, after the catalog has been done and mailed for a couple weeks. I think then Tobe will be better able to carry on a lively discussion or debate if need be.
Cool?

_Sean

 

[tophopper]

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Tony's reply

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Sackett
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 12:28 PM
To: 'John Paul Sanborn'
Subject: Guardian



John, thanks for your interest in the Guardian system I hope this answers your questions.

1. It's not a locking brummel, just a standard brummel making it easily adjustable.

2. Yale Cordage testing lab, as shown in the installation Instructions, supplied UV degradation data for both the Guardian and polypropylene with UV stabilizers.

3. You are correct the rope remains flat when loaded similar to a spliced eye in a climbing line.

4. And yes I do use it on my boat, but for this application (dock lines) I use locking brummels because it's not necessary to adjust the eyes.

Once again thanks for your interest, I hope I answered all your questions.

Hey did you see I finally have the Rope Guides available. Long swings and true landings.

Tony Sackett

Fresco Arborist Supplies
763-559-7071 ext. 13
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>