Guide Bar comparison tests, measurements & pictures

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An amazing review!

OK, pick, one saw and bar combo for the best running/feeling, most satisfaction. Ya, I know hard, but...

1? lol

Tree Monkeyed 461R - 28" tsumura light
Tree Monkeyed 064R - 28" tsumura light
Tree Monkeyed 661R - 28" tsumura light

in 3/8ths - 8pin sprocket on all of those with full comp or half skip

in 404 on the 064 and 661 - probably 8pin full skikp

28" seems to balance all of those the best and produce the best cut times...yes even better than 20" and 24". So I personally do everything with a 28" and if I can't do it with the 28" then I get out a 41" modified (larger oiler port) cannon in .404 :)

Well I do have a 36" tsumura in .404. I go back in forth between the 36" tsumura and the 41 cannon. The 41 cannon has a wider belly profile, it's heavy as heck, ..but I just like it. Practical purpose - yes the 36" tsumura all day long.

Great write up! Any chance you'll do 16"/18" bars? I may be on the market for one in the not so distant future.

no plans sorry.
 
The "New Stihl Lightweight" and "Oregon RW"(single rivet)........................................Look the best........................."Cannon" made me a polished for the 880 View attachment 494791
Beautiful
1? lol

Tree Monkeyed 461R - 28" tsumura light
Tree Monkeyed 064R - 28" tsumura light
Tree Monkeyed 661R - 28" tsumura light

in 3/8ths - 8pin sprocket on all of those with full comp or half skip

in 404 on the 064 and 661 - probably 8pin full skikp

28" seems to balance all of those the best and produce the best cut times...yes even better than 20" and 24". So I personally do everything with a 28" and if I can't do it with the 28" then I get out a 41" modified (larger oiler port) cannon in .404 :)

Well I do have a 36" tsumura in .404. I go back in forth between the 36" tsumura and the 41 cannon. The 41 cannon has a wider belly profile, it's heavy as heck, ..but I just like it. Practical purpose - yes the 36" tsumura all day long.



no plans sorry.


LoveStihlQuality
 
I bet you could run all those tests over again and again and get different temperature results every time. The only way I would see this as being in any way scientific, is if you did at least ten separate tests/measurements for each bar.....then take the average. Just simply pushing the saw a bit harder for a few seconds, or having a chain that is slightly duller than another, will alter temperature results quite a bit. (And other variables)
 
I bet you could run all those tests over again and again and get different temperature results every time. The only way I would see this as being in any way scientific, is if you did at least ten separate tests/measurements for each bar.....then take the average. Just simply pushing the saw a bit harder for a few seconds, or having a chain that is slightly duller than another, will alter temperature results quite a bit. (And other variables)

used new chains.

bar temps do change as do jug temps. varies with conditions. but if everything is done on the same day.

furthermore the trend on which bars run cooler and which run hotter spans across the board 20 24 28 32 36". So IMO that accounts for your 10 tests and all the endless variables that you mention. Thanks.
 
462 with 20" tsumura lite
2e6c67s.jpg


462 with 24" tsumura lite
2q32eqr.jpg


462 with 28" tsumura lite
w0olxz.jpg
 
Sorry you felt the need to respond so sarcastically, but I shouldn't have to read an entire thread to get the essence of the original post. I was merely bringing a potential equipment shortcoming to your attention.

I'm aware of the Flir unit you speak of, we have one at work.

"Consistent" results are not indicative of accurate results. Why wouldn't you just leave the videos up? Youtube doesn't charge to host. All my videos have been up on youtube for years, I don't even think about them anymore. If no one watches, it's no skin off my back.
I'm re-reading several of these old test threads by @redbull660, good stuff.

The IR readings are...well, possibly wildly inaccurate. NOT to criticize, simply for education on this one part of the testing:
Without comparing IR and thermocouple results at different temperatures (like room temperature and several temperatures in an oven) the readings are indeterminate. Emissivity varies by temperature, and per bar, so the way to measure temperature accurately is by testing each bar with IR and thermocouple at different temperatures, making a chart, then running the experiments and adjusting the readings per the chart. (IR is a good way to read bar temperatures due to chainsaw bars cooling faster than a thermocouple can read temperatures). The chart could be made after the fact and existing temperatures adjusted accordingly if the bar finish is the same as previous.

I think this is why the bar temperature results near the powerhead varied greatly between bars, but was consistent between different bar lengths of the same brand. The temperatures near the powerhead for all bars should have been consistent as the amount of work the powerhead does is statistically consistent: cutting wood is the major contributing factor, the bar contribution is insignificant. (We can spin a chain around a bar by hand, but not if it's buried in wood, therefore cutting wood is the majority of the work the powerhead does. Secondary is probably overcoming powerhead internal losses such as compression and friction.)

Unfortunately the most accurate temperature results here are probably gained by grabbing the bar by hand, which is good to know moving forward.

The focus should be the results of the effort @redbull660 put into the bar comparisons which is both useful and appreciated. It's unfortunate the videos were taken down, the testing does show definite price vs. performance differences.
 
I'm re-reading several of these old test threads by @redbull660, good stuff.

The IR readings are...well, possibly wildly inaccurate. NOT to criticize, simply for education on this one part of the testing:
Without comparing IR and thermocouple results at different temperatures (like room temperature and several temperatures in an oven) the readings are indeterminate. Emissivity varies by temperature, and per bar, so the way to measure temperature accurately is by testing each bar with IR and thermocouple at different temperatures, making a chart, then running the experiment and adjusting the readings per the chart. (IR is a good way to read bar temperatures due to chainsaw bars cooling faster than a thermocouple can read temperatures).
I think this is why the bar temperature results near the powerhead varied greatly between bars, but was consistent between different bar lengths of the same brand. The temperatures should have been fairly consistent as the amount of work the powerhead does is statistically consistant: cutting wood is the major contributing factor, the bar contribution is insignificant. (We can spin a chain around a bar by hand, but not if it's burried in wood, therefore cutting wood is the majority of the work the powerhead does.)

Unfortunately the most accurate temperature results here are probably gained by grabbing the bar by hand, which is good to know moving forward.

The focus should be the results of the effort @redbull660 put into the bar comparisons which is both useful and appreciated. It's unfortunate the videos were taken down, the testing does show definite price vs. performance differences.
Your post is spot on. Personally I don't care if my bar runs a bit hotter or faster. I just want it to last and and have never had an issue in that regard.
 
Your post is spot on. Personally I don't care if my bar runs a bit hotter or faster. I just want it to last and and have never had an issue in that regard.
That brings up another correlation: Bar weight verses cutting speed. The lightest bars tended to cut slower, a somewhat heavier bar faster, and the heaviest bars slower. Factor in available power on tap depending on the powerhead and bar length, and a pattern seems to emerge.

I think it's likely that filing the depth gauges based on the bar weight and type of wood would even out the cutting speeds, which makes sense as friction between the chain and bar should be relatively minimal as long as the chain design allows oil to be delivered to where it's needed. If the depth gauge height is set optimally, most of the powerhead power should be used to cut wood.

The other weekend I was cutting birch with aggressive chain, then moved to cutting maple felled right next to the birch and the chain stalled because it was too aggressive. I switched to a less aggressively filed chain and threw big chips effortlessly. Matching the chain to the wood is far more important than the brand of bar.
  • That implies your point is one of the most relevant: How long does the bar last compared to what it cost?
  • Also important: How does the saw balance with a particular bar?
    (productivity matters at the end of the week)
Both relate to how much is spent vs. what you're getting. For homeowners a $23 bar good for cutting sponge cake might be all they need.

How good the bar looks probably isn't as important unless it's for a Get-Together, but where the bar is made might be important depending on your values.
 
Whatever happened to redbull660?
Great thread but hasn’t been around in several years.
@redbull660 apparently migrated to what one might term "the rebel site." Around the time he left ArboristSite he was interested in saw modification, and a bunch of hotrod saw guys are there, so perhaps that's the reason, I don't know. There was a bit of contention here around that time with some members, and the mentality migrated and exists there now, so each site has a different tone and members are each are happy with that. Some members "put site politics aside" and are members of both sites, but the politics exist for reasons and those reasons aren't going to change.
 
@redbull660 apparently migrated to what one might term "the rebel site." Around the time he left ArboristSite he was interested in saw modification, and a bunch of hotrod saw guys are there, so perhaps that's the reason, I don't know. There was a bit of contention here around that time with some members, and the mentality migrated and exists there now, so each site has a different tone and members are each are happy with that. Some members "put site politics aside" and are members of both sites, but the politics exist for reasons and those reasons aren't going to change.
Thanks!
 

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