handled descender favorites pros, and cons

[northmanlogging]

Greatings, fat gimpy guy again...

So few weeks ago I screwed up royally with the figure eight, not sure how but I fell like 20 feet before remembering to let go of the backup prusik, it sucked but I didn't die... (thinkin I got the line passed around the saddle funny, and didn't get enough pressure on the bottom side, or i just hooked it up wrong?, may have been the less then optimal gloves as well, no traction at all...)

However it got me thinking on the handled nor mechanical descender's. There are many to choose from, But I have zero experience with any of them, and the local shop doesn't carry the fancy stuff, though he'll order them and have em next day, (apparently some of the local climbers are less then trustworthy and like to pocket spensive knick knacks).

Anyway, running half inch climb line, and would prefer something that can be added mid line in a hurry, and is stupid easy to learn. thinking the spyder jack/rope jacks have to many extra bits, and would probably get in the way.

 

[RajElectric]

What kind of friction hitch did you tie?

Can't help you on your question, I fly a HH SRT.

 

[ATH]

I have a GriGri2 that works nicely, but I can't get it onto the Hitch climber system in a way I like. Also, you need 11.5mm or thinner rope, so I guess that is not a good recommendation for either you or me...

I looked at the ZigZag, Unicender, Lockjack Sport, and the SpiderJack3. But decided to stay with the hitch climber (and VT friction hitch). I like it for all things except descending...not that it is bad, just that there is no back up. Of those listed, the Unicender is the only one that can be attached midline. A little more than I wanted to spend...and it would just replace the VT with the hitch climber, not necessarily back it up.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Petzl I'D works great

 

[ATH]

I see that Sherrill's info says the I'D is for 10-11.5 mm rope (too small for 1/2".). TreeStuff has a small and large I'D....the large would fit 1/2" rope.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

The petal RIG will take 1/2" but it doesn't run as smooth

 

[northmanlogging]

What kind of friction hitch did you tie?

Can't help you on your question, I fly a HH SRT.

Valdotian tress (sp?) The hitch worked fine, the rescue 8 on the other hand is where I screwed up. Problem with using a hitch as a back up, is when you panic ya tend to squeeze tighter... making the hitch slip more, making you go faster... making you panic more... letting go works pretty good bound it up pretty good and had to rehook the flip line and take some weight off the hitch. (if you've ever tried to work double lock biners or hooks etc with shaking hands...).

I've tried some of the other standard hitches, but as I said I'm a fatty, they tend to seize pretty hard and not want to free up until all my weight is off em, the valdotian works pretty good, use it with a micro pulley for easy slack tending, mostly keep the climb line around as a second tie in, though I'm thinking on trying out some SRT or a hybrid type, but in reality if if can throw a line in a tree, I don't need to climb it, just hang a bull line and drag the whole thing over, I'll leave the limb walking and tree surgeon stuff to the guys that know what they are doing, I'ma just a dumb logger, if the whole thing ain't going down I'll pass it on to an arborist.

 

[fireman33]

The petzl ID L rated "yellow" will not fit on half inch rope, you will be able to insert the rope in the system but it will be very hard to operate and feed the rope through it. The red petzl ID which is G rated is perfect for half inch rope. The grigri2 is also not good for half inch, designed for smaller rope. You would like the ID, has the panic proof handle, let the handle go it locks up, pull on the handle until you find the sweet spot and it works great, pull too hard and it locks up. It really is idiot proof as long as the rope is installed in the device properly.

 

[fireman33]

You can also install it midline as long as you can come up with a little slack in the line

 

[Hoowasat]

+1 on the LARGE Petzl I'D. For the most part, the LARGE has been RED in color, but I see some black "tactical" versions are being offered lately. I have a couple of 'em I use with 1/2" Samson Arbormaster climbing ropes, and they function in a manner that exudes confidence. Panic grab? Not a problem with the I'D ... it will lock down if you pull the lever too hard. And like fireman33 said, they can be installed mid-line.

EDIT TO ADD: BTW, I use mine for climbing RADS, so the I'D can be used for both ascending and descending ... no change-over while aloft.

 

[crotchclimber]

Petzl I'D and you won't die. Pretty much idiot proof. Safeties for threading backwards and descending too fast. I have the Rig which lacks the idiot features and wouldn't take full 1/2" line I think. I run 11.5mm Tachyon through it fine though.

 

[northmanlogging]

petzl id it is then.

Thanks folks, climbing is hard enough on me, but coming down is what really messes up the leg, that and sometimes it feels safer to just rappel down, something about nearly getting the flip line too low makes me nervous. Came close once way back several decades when I first learned this stuff, luckily one spur slipped out, so I ended up just kneeing myself in the face... and not going over backwards. (manilla flip line, leather belt, tied in a knot, cast pads, with carpet for padding... fond memories)

 

[fireman33]

repelling down with the ID will be awesome and controlled...maybe an alpine butterfly mid line and choked around a good crotch...repel on one side and retrieve with the other side.

 

[Hoowasat]

... but coming down is what really messes up the leg, that and sometimes it feels safer to just rappel down ...

I dislike having to descend with spikes. If I had to chunk down firewood-length pieces of the spar, then OK ... otherwise, descend 10 or 12 feet & drop big chunks. I prefer cutting firewood on the ground.

 

[northmanlogging]

repelling down with the ID will be awesome and controlled...maybe an alpine butterfly mid line and choked around a good crotch...repel on one side and retrieve with the other side.

I like that Idear, though I don't generally have the option of crotches to work with, mostly Fir, Hemlock, and Cedar. I'll experiment with the butterfly, Maybe loop it through a hand full of stout branches and choke it back with a biner to save some effort?

I dislike having to descend with spikes. If I had to chunk down firewood-length pieces of the spar, then OK ... otherwise, descend 10 or 12 feet & drop big chunks. I prefer cutting firewood on the ground.

I try not to get involved in the chunking down game, leave that to the arborists, and "tree surgeons", I'm primarily logging, so I want long sticks like 36' or so. The climbing em is pretty much used to hang a line so I can pull them over tree length, because of high value targets and such (structures, roads, power lines), though occasionally I'll need to top one, its rare. Most trees that need rigged I try to use a Big Shot and some bull line, but some either are too bushy to get a clear shot, no branches that will hold the line (feckin cotton wood) or lean to hard for me to trust my bull line, so I pretty much have to climb em and hang some proper cable. Granted some folks will argue the point of rope being stronger than cable, which some is, though it doesn't hold up to abrasion or getting cut like cable does, and frankly I'm hard on ropes... hel I'm hard on cable too, but in the end a proper cable choker wrapped around a tree half way up or more isn't going to fail because a knot slipped too much and burned the line.

Occasionally I'll climb one to hang a block for yarding purposes, but that has been more then a little while ago

 

[fireman33]

A running bowline chocked around the spar is what I use on conifers. Leaving a super long tail for retrieval is extra annoying when tying that knot...what I do is I usually leave a couple feet of tail , when I'm ready to come down, I get my groundsmen to send me up the tail of another rope and I tie it to the tail of the running bowline so that I have something to retrieve when I hit the ground.

 

[northmanlogging]

thats not a bad idea either.

I'm super paranoid about the long tail on a running bowline, I've used it for chunking down before, kinda handy then, I worry I'll hook up the wrong end... I get tired and do stupid ****.

But tying on a bit of throw line would work pretty good for retrieval, or some small cord of some sort.

A buddy of mine takes a long climb line up, and will drop it down when ready to decend, tie one end off to a base somewheres, and loop around a few branches, much like SRT then repel down that, I just don't have any groundies I can trust, I generally work alone or with the wifey, so at least there is someone around that can dial 911... and pass up lines if needed, but she's not real good under pressure or at knots in general...

 

[fireman33]

Yes the throwline is a good idea, I have never tried it, I find sometime it takes a pretty good tug on the rope to get the knot to "un-sinche". But throwline is pretty strong, it should work. If it doesn't work you'll just have to climb back up

 

[northmanlogging]

of fall it and pick em off like normal...

I'm really impressed with proper throwline, been using some el cheepo nylon crud for years, picked up some throwline a few months ago, been trying to break it since without any luck