Have Yard Stick, Will Climb Tree

[Tim Gardner]

I was finishing up a job today and noticed a tree in a back yard across the street. All I could do is stare for about five minutes. I am not sure what type of hardwood it is because I could not get close enough to see the bark or leaves clearly. Water oak I think. The strange thing about this tree is that it is well over 100’ tall and is in a residential development. The average tree here in Myrtle Beach SC, I would guess is 60’. It is rare but you can find a few shortleaf pines here that are 100’ (killed three in the last two months. SC state champion shortleaf is 140’). This tree could be a SC champion. The current SC champion water oak is 118’. I am not getting my hopes up but would like to know how it “measures up”. I hope and pray I can get permission to climb this tree one day.

How would I go about accurately measuring this tree? I have seen threads about different methods but I am looking for a way to know exactly how tall and what the spread is before I nominate it.

 

[Nickrosis]

In Wisconsin, one must go the the Department of Natural Resources. They will refer you to a certified champion tree measuring person (such as myself ) who can measure it with you to verify the accuracy. It has to be measured by someone who is certified before it will appear in the record book. Your name will appear, though, if you nominated it.

Nickrosis

 

[Tim Gardner]

I do realize that a tree’s size must be verified before being labeled as a champion. How do I get an accurate measurement before I get someone else out here to check it? Just because it looks like it is over 100’ tall to me does not mean it is.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Tri-angulating height with any 45-45-90 from a plumbed point; should, by definitinon be acc-u-rate enough........

Spread should be able to be plumb-bobbed and measured on ground i would think.

 

[Treeman14]

Well, you could climb it. But I suppose a clinometer would give you a pretty accurate measurement without having to leave the ground.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

In WI. the score relys heavily on circumference, but the total includes height, width, and spieces. So you can get pretty accurate without knowing the height.

 

[treeclimber165]

I agree with others as to the height. A landowner was asking about how to measure height in this forum a few months ago. He had a tree with a broken top that he needed to flop towards the power lines and wanted to double check his clearance. Using the suggestions given here, he was accurate within 3' on total height.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I don't have time this AM to look up the link to the Champion Trees Project. Google will find it for you.

To get a pretty accurate height measurement grab your yardstick and find a place the the tree would fit if you cut it down. Take the yardstick in your hand and arm's length out to your side. Tip the end back and touch your cheekbone on the side of your face. Don't let go of the stick now. Now you site down your arm with one eye closed and put the top of the stick at the top of the tree. Back up until the tree "sits" on your hand next to the stick. Mark a point on the ground. Do this several times without paying attention to where your mark is on the ground. If you can make measurements from several points around the tree, better yet. Now average the measurements and you'll have a pretty accurate height measurement. You'll need to get DBH and crown spread too.

Tom

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/forestry/uf/champion/measure.htm

This explains how to go about doing it.

this is the formula used for all CTP in the US.

Total Points = Trunk circumference in inches + height in feet + 1/4 of Average Crown Spread in feet

0r (.25s)+C+H

As WINick said the C factor heavily weights the total because it is in inches. This part of the formula greatly favors open grown trees.

2 hypothetical trees we think in DBH so that's what I'll use

H= 100---- 50
d= 30---- 40
S= 40---- 40
t= 200----180

the trees have the same spread, have a 10 inch differance in DBH but the open grown in half the hight, total points differ by 20 points

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i was suggesting plumbobbing under highest point, for i believe there would be error if top point and bottom point of sightings were not perpendicular to the ground, when a line drawn thru them.

 

[Nickrosis]

But that isn't required and the spread factor has the most fudge.

Nickrosis

 

[Tim Gardner]

This tree is in an area that was not logged before selling the property. That is a rare thing around here. Other trees around it are tall also. The circumference and spread I feel like I can get a pretty good reading it’s just the height I need to check. The way I understand it from looking at the Register of Big Tree’s website, you have to use height, spread (two directions) and circumference to calculate.

I guess I can try to get permission to climb it and get a measurement that way. It does not bother me to make my way out to the very tips of a healthy tree. And I can’t think of a better way to spend a day, playing in a tall tree.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

The stick trick that Tom refers to is one 45-45-90 application. i did several experiments with where to measure the stick from (armpit, shoulder, ear, eye); Tom's idea of from the ear came out most accurate to others i had heard of. In any 45-45-90 setup the 2 legs of the 90 degree angle will be equal, it has worked for buildings, bridges and pyramids. If the peak height is closer than the trunk (assuming trunk for bottom sighting) i believe the resultant error will be to call the tree taller, the opposite if the peak height is sighted behind the bottom sighting.

i believe a clinometer works on the same geometry, but is set to calculate a multiplier by the angle of the device; whereby the relationship of height to distance (of you from tree) is no longer on a 1 to 1 relationship (when you aren't 45 degrees from top); it is still calculation of geometric triangulation assuming that the 2 legs of height and distance meet at a 90 degree angle, only it adjusts for the bottom angle not being 45deg.

 

[Nickrosis]

A clinometer is at 45 degrees when the tree is 66 feet tall (one chain or four rods). It's all sin calculations from there.

Nickrosis