Help Me Apply Talstar Pro?

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PinkFloydEffect

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I was recommended Talstar Pro to get rid of leaf miners on my very rare elm tree. I'm on a budget so I just need to start this population control because it's getting really bad.
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I just bought a cheap sprayer, nothing fancy. I am going to climb the tree plus use large latters to apply the pesticide (I know, I know latters are a bad idea) I will throw the tank in a backpack, I have a few questions though.
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Is a sunny day better then a dry overcast day? What if it rains 12-24 hours after application? Should it be applied to the top or bottom of leafs, or both if possible? Should I be wearing a mask of any sort? Thank you!
 
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If you're dealing with leafminer, A soil applied systemic insecticide is guaranteed to cost less than the Dr. bills associated with poisoning and falling out of the tree.

You can buy imidicloprid (bayer advanced) at your local hardware store, or big box home center. Then drench the soil around the tree's base according to the label directions. Since elm leafminer is a a sawfly, it should be quite effective.
 
If you're dealing with leafminer, A soil applied systemic insecticide is guaranteed to cost less than the Dr. bills associated with poisoning and falling out of the tree.

You can buy imidicloprid (bayer advanced) at your local hardware store, or big box home center. Then drench the soil around the tree's base according to the label directions. Since elm leafminer is a a sawfly, it should be quite effective.

Figures, it arrived in the mail today a whole 3/4 gallon of it. Also this is a really large tree, I am only going to be able to cover the bottom half but I need to make an attempt it is a rare Camperdown Elm (camperdownii)

Search Camperdownii on Wiki... you will see my tree.
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Maybe both Talstar & imidicloprid together? imidicloprid applied at ground level would help where I can not reach?

This Talstar spread sheet sounds very dangerous, I'm angry at the user that recommended this to me on AS. I don't have money to invest in more equipment but I'm stuck with this pesticide now!
 
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Talstar is not overly dangerous when applied according to label directions. Trying to climb the tree and spray at the same time puts you in a position of heavy exposure, since you cannot avoid spray drift and runoff. If you utilize the imidicloprid, the talstar will not be needed.

If the tree has suffered severe defoliation, some soil amendments may be in order to help maintain it's vigor.
 
I guess I will have to suit up the best as possible, wear a skimask and sunglasses, do it on a still day with no drift. I'll wear some kitchen wash gloves the thick rubber ones, also If I use staging latters from the outside instead of climbing I will not be in the path of runoff, but that would only cover the leaf tops. As for air respiratory filtration I am a little screwed, all I have are dust/paint masks I could double up on them (they look like the ones dentists use).

I am just a neighbor, the lady payed for the non returnable pesticide and I bought the sprayer because I don't want to see this tree die. Will imidicloprid cover mites as well?

This must be the mite eggs or something, the poor tree is COVERED in them!
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The attack has begun, but it has not broken out like this everywhere yet, so I'm assuming I should give it more time before application of Talstar?
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Well sir, you got the ole elm finger gall on those leaves. Its caused by Eriophyes ulmi. Thats a mite and not an insect. Note how the leaf gall is still green? Thats means the leaf is still photosynthesizing so not a real health concern. The leaf miner can be a serious issue over consecutive seasons, though. The miners are consuming green! A leaf missing its palisade layer is not useful to the tree and a wooden flute with no holes is just a stick.

You went ahead with the bifenthrin. It's very effective but almost impossible for a homeowner to apply properly. Safely.
You are also late with that application since the best timing is before the mines develop in the Spring since Talstar targets the adult saw fly.

I would return the Talstar and obtain a soil drench systemic labelled for Fenusa ulmi. A product containing imidacloprid might be the better choice for an upcoming fall application.
 
Aren't you in college?

I decided not to go, since I have a vertigo problem with heights.

Well sir, you got the ole elm finger gall on those leaves. Its caused by Eriophyes ulmi. Thats a mite and not an insect. Note how the leaf gall is still green? Thats means the leaf is still photosynthesizing so not a real health concern. The leaf miner can be a serious issue over consecutive seasons, though. The miners are consuming green! A leaf missing its palisade layer is not useful to the tree and a wooden flute with no holes is just a stick.

You went ahead with the bifenthrin. It's very effective but almost impossible for a homeowner to apply properly. Safely.
You are also late with that application since the best timing is before the mines develop in the Spring since Talstar targets the adult saw fly.

I would return the Talstar and obtain a soil drench systemic labelled for Fenusa ulmi. A product containing imidacloprid might be the better choice for an upcoming fall application.

Darn, I am going to try my best to return the product.

So buy a systemic drench that contains imidacloprid? That will cover both the miners and mites?? We are on a budget here I have the $60 she paid for the Talstar to work with here.

Or are you saying get a drench labeled for miners and a separate labeled for Fenusa ulmi?? The miners are REALLY a problem, in about a month they will have consumed half the trees foliage completely, and it needs the energy to fight the trunk borers.
 
I decided not to go, since I have a vertigo problem with heights.

:ices_rofl:





Darn, I am going to try my best to return the product.

So buy a systemic drench that contains imidacloprid? That will cover both the miners and mites?? We are on a budget here I have the $60 she paid for the Talstar to work with here.

Or are you saying get a drench labeled for miners and a separate labeled for Fenusa ulmi?? The miners are REALLY a problem, in about a month they will have consumed half the trees foliage completely, and it needs the energy to fight the trunk borers.

Don't sweat the mite. Concentrate on the miner. Your late with your app of Talstar (bifenthrin) and it does not move systemically within the plant like the neonics, imidacloprid and dinotefuran, so putting it on the plant now is like putting hubcaps on a tractor. I might concentrate on ensuring optimum cultural conditions this season and wait on the Talstar applications until next Spring. Shortly after leaf emergence.

Still not sure how you plan to get it on the tree. Try to get a hold of a soil drench systemic labelled for Fenusa ulmi. Pouring an appropriate chemical around the base of the tree is a bit more reasonable than somehow devising a way to spray the entire canopy.

Learn about pests and their lifecycles. This will give you an idea when they are most susceptible to control strategy. PFE, do not be cavalier with pesticides! Wear your ppe.

good luck
 
Damn good info, Ed. I thought you gave up on all that chemical stuff? You must be working from a pretty good recall of former times.

I might be wrong, but I didn't even recognize any leaf miner damage. Did I miss something?
 
Damn good info, Ed. I thought you gave up on all that chemical stuff? You must be working from a pretty good recall of former times.

I might be wrong, but I didn't even recognize any leaf miner damage. Did I miss something?


Hey man. Pinkfloydeffect has being passionately working to preserve this camperdown for some time now. Somewhere on this board is a thread where he performed some very decent root rx under Treeseers advice. Key and feature elm so i want to help him if i can. Besides, i dig the PHC/IPM. Discussions about chipper idle speed and best small saw are the cure for insomia.
 
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Hey man. Pinkfloydeffect has being passionately working to preserve this camperdown for some time now. Somewhere on this board is a thread where he performed some very decent root rx under Treeseers advice. Key and feature elm so i want to help him if i can. Besides, i dig the PHC/IPM. Discussions about chipper idle speed and best small saw are the cure for insomia.

Your awesome man, you understand my situation here. I was recommended a drench of Imida E Pro 75WSP at one point. I will get right on this, and I'm not too late for the drench??

What do you think of this product(Bonide), it says leaf miners but I could not find something for "elm" specifically.
http://www.opentip.com/Pet-Supplies...l-Tree-Shrub-Drench-Con-Gallon-p-1228710.html
 
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That looks like an ok product to me. It is an imidacloprid product that is labeled for soil drench, and the advertising even lists the application rate.

Specifically listing elm leaf miners is expecting a bit much from a product label. Some insect infestations are so common, that they get specifically included with every label. An example might be "bagworms" for junipers, or pine sawfly in pine trees. This is done for marketing reasons to make sure that their product is selected when the buyer is looking for something that specifically treats their problem.

Other insect problems include a very wide variety plants and many different species. "Aphids", "caterpillars", and "leaf miners" fall into this category. By making a general description of the problem, the manufacturer is trying to let you know what it will work on, without limiting the scope of where the product can be used. Federal regulations limit the use of a product to following the product label exactly; so if it only lists beech leaf miners, and you have elm leaf miners, you might feel restricted from using the product. Furthermore, there are so many different insects within many of these categories that it is unrealistic to even attempt a complete list. No one would read a label that long, anyway.

You should try harder to understand each insecticide before you attempt to use or purchase it. Imidacloprid is a systemic insecticide. This means that it gets into the plant itself, and is translocated to all the parts of the tree; effectively making it a poison pill for whatever susceptible insects might try to take a bite.

Insecticide formulations could be loosely grouped into several different kinds of delivery. Generally, they would be "contact", "residual", and "systemic".
* Contact insecticides generally must be put directly onto the bug to kill them. They are usually highly fatal to the targeted bugs, but do not linger in the environment.
* Residual insecticides are the most commonly used, and also pose the greatest risk to the environment. They linger in the areas that are treated, and continue to kill long after they are applied. They tend to be less toxic in short exposures, but they get the job done by persisting in the areas where the bugs are living.
* systemic insecticides would actually be a subset of residual insecticides. They add the ability to become part of the treated organism (be it plant or animal), which then becomes poisonous to the targeted insects. This has a number of advantages and disadvantages: while highly effective and economical, systemic insecticides are generally not available for the agricultural products that we call "food" (for obvious reasons).

The bifenthrin (Talstar) you were considering would be a residual insecticide. The reason that it is a poor choice for your usage is that it requires special equipment to get effective coverage of a tree. This means big buck$ for powerful spraying systems that can penetrate the foliage and get a thorough application to all parts. I suspect that it would also be of marginal effectiveness for leaf miners, as they might be protected from the insecticide by the leaf itself. The galls mites would almost certainly be protected.

Read more here: Bifenthrin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
First of all thank you for taking the time to write all that, I had a feeling a leaf miner label covered all types and subspecies of miners but I wanted to make sure.

Now I understand much better, I will obtain a drench asap.
 
Lets try this again, now I have BONIDE with SYSTEMMAXX (Imidacloprid) says "Kills Borers & Miners"
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I really hope this works, and what I thought was a graft rejection now appears to be identified as a rotting limb collar with trunk borers, am I going to kill two birds with one stone here or do I need something else for my trunk borers?
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