Help me gauge field Level Of Knowledge regarding Forest Pathology

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madhatte said:
OK, new question, same theme:



Is there any good reason to bother figuring out what caused the tree to be like this, or do you just buck it up and leave the butt as CWD? Is there anybody on the landing who is interested in knowing about this sort of thing, or is it a non-issue on the ground?
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The quick answer is no. The guys on the landing are all about production and production usually takes precedence over pathology. As a rule it's a non-issue...at least on the kind of ground I work. That's not always a good thing because a lot of information that would be valuable to someone like you is lost.
If we got into a big enough stand of a particular anomaly we'd probably try to get somebody's attention. Whether or not we'd be successful in having somebody drive clear out to the woods to look at something we consider unusual is another story.
 
Oooh, a rant here. Getting somebody from the Forest Service out would require a long time of staying out of an area. The 'ologists would have to check their calenders, then check the alignment of the stars, make sure there are no school children to go talk to about their careers as 'ologists and then might be able to make it out in a month or two if it isn't raining and if they'll have help to drive on a road that has scary log trucks on it. Even trying to bribe with cookies doesn't work. They are likely to be vegematics and anti-sugar. :msp_wink:
 
slowp said:
Oooh, a rant here. Getting somebody from the Forest Service out would require a long time of staying out of an area. The 'ologists would have to check their calenders, then check the alignment of the stars, make sure there are no school children to go talk to about their careers as 'ologists and then might be able to make it out in a month or two if it isn't raining and if they'll have help to drive on a road that has scary log trucks on it. Even trying to bribe with cookies doesn't work. They are likely to be vegematics and anti-sugar. :msp_wink:
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That is just plain funny:hmm3grin2orange:
 
Gologit said:
As a rule it's a non-issue...at least on the kind of ground I work. That's not always a good thing because a lot of information that would be valuable to someone like you is lost... Whether or not we'd be successful in having somebody drive clear out to the woods to look at something we consider unusual is another story.
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Too true, and bummer that. However, the fact that you guys do notice this stuff, even if there's no way to relay that information to anybody who would be interested in doing anything with that observation, is at once encouraging and daunting.

slowp said:
The 'ologists would have to check their calenders, then check the alignment of the stars, make sure there are no school children to go talk to about their careers as 'ologists and then might be able to make it out in a month or two if it isn't raining and if they'll have help to drive on a road that has scary log trucks on it
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Guh. Tell me about it. Every day I do my telephone rounds to see who's available to answer questions. I hate leaving messages, so if I don't get anybody on a given day, I just try again later. I always have a stack of questions for the experts written in my notebook for whenever I get the chance to ask them.
 
Bob has it, noticed but rarely given much thought unless unusual. Diseased trees are rated for defect. On the other hand, a superb tree or stand will get talked about. I didn't believe the tales about Salmon Creek, until I saw it. Yeah yeah, Yeager Crick area.
 
madhatte said:
Too true, and bummer that. However, the fact that you guys do notice this stuff, even if there's no way to relay that information to anybody who would be interested in doing anything with that observation, is at once encouraging and daunting.
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Of course we notice it...we look at trees every day.

What I wonder about, since a saw log is basically without value or purpose until it's turned into lumber, is what kind of recovery the mill is getting. How much is lost to defect or disease and how much is lost to each specific type?
I don't know anything about sawmills but if a certain kind of defect was prevalent throughout a sale wouldn't it be worthwhile to track the logs and see what kind of lumber they made?
As a rule, when the logs hit the mill, they're scaled or weighed, and then just decked according to species and size. There's no separation by defect or disease.

Just something else for you to mull over. :msp_smile:
 
There isn't much defect in our second growth stands. Root rot would be about the only thing, or sweep. The latter is bucked out by the faller, or processor and you won't see it at the mill. I did see a scary load headed to the chipping place.

Time is money in the woods. I don't think I've ever seen guys shut down to ponder the defect.
 
The problem with defect is that it never leaves the landing and ends up in chunk pile. Our mill and peeler plant have pretty tight standards for loads coming in. Anything that doesn’t make spec is usually not allowed to unload or the logger was fined. The mill is paying for a certain grade of log so the tight rules on grading. There is always some hidden defect that doesn’t show until it goes through the head rig but sending avoidable defect to the mill is a no no. Any type of butt rot gets chunked off until you are into sound wood. Checks, twist, crooks .... either it makes the spec or into the pile. We have an ok pulp market so there is a home for some junk, but when you bought the sale thinking it was high grade sawlog or a peeler stand and it turns out to be pulp then the **** hits the fan.

We buy a lot of gov't sales and if we don't know the area or who did the development work we spend some time looking around, looking at the cruise reports and if suspicious take out the saw to check. Destructive sampling is an invaluable tool (if permitted) to verify the condition of a stand if it makes you twitchy. Hemlock and cedar send alarm bells off around here. So does large dia.high elevation spruce – cubicle butt rot (CBR) is very prevalent. We do lots of measurements to see how much vol will be lost to long butting at the landing. Its worth the time and cost.

Watch heli logger on Discovery, they bore every tree on the stump before they touch it.
 
RPM said:
There is always some hidden defect that doesn’t show until it goes through the head rig but sending avoidable defect to the mill is a no no.
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Yep, and we always factor in a 10% hidden defect into our cruises, as well as downgrading form class a bit on tally trees, in order to not rip anybody off. Good call on the cubical rot -- it's not a very vigorous tree-killer, but it's ALWAYS THERE in the older stuff.
 
RandyMac said:
If you ever want to know if you bucked your logs correctly, ask a truck driver.
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WAHAAALLLL... as it happens, I know just the fellow to ask. Or maybe three. Good advice! Results of this cold-call adventure will be posted here with the rest...

Just so you guys know... the original study I started this thread for? Already I've written a procedure and a results paper. I've been asked to split the paper in two and write them both up. The comments I've received here have been invaluable, and I thank you all.
 

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