Thanks.
Let's not get into swinging dutchman right now. LOL
Hinge question
- Thread starter Brian VT
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Let's not get into swinging dutchman right now. LOL
Ahahaha
pinemartin
tightwad
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tbN1sKN7IlI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
:agree2: In rhetoric and reality. Ron
Wrong. A hinge that is thicker to one side will pull the tree towards that direction given no other variables. The side with the thicker hinge will fall slighty slower and therefore pull the tree around. How much depends on how beefy the hinge is. The gunning cut will determine the direction when there are no other variables. A hinge that is beefy on one side is a variable.
Note I said no other variables such as rot or lean or wind.
If you don't know the answer (and don't have the experience) don't make stuff up just to hear yourself talk.
How true. Sometimes there is no really good answer to a particular problem. When you are making a plan that means the stem will break when it hits or the lay will be wrong but it is the only thing to do. Or when the danger level is such that you make anyone else stand way back and watch. And you have just gone over the emergency procedures.
When I get a dry mouth I know I am up to my eyeballs in something that needs to be done.
Our dept had a very large abandoned hotel that was going to be demolished catch fire. Squatters had taken up residence there so we figured people were still in the building. The smoke was down to a foot off the floor, large holes had been cut in the floors to see if the building could be saved, and dirty needles and feces were everywhere. I crawled down a long hallway checking rooms along the way not finding anyone. I left when my air went dry, changed bottles and went back in. I never found anyone in that search. Later I was up on the top of the old ladder truck directing a hose stream for maybe an hour. I had time up there and I remember thinking to myself that I am going to get my butt kicked in the post incident critique but that someone had to do what I did. (Another more senior firefighter had done the exact same thing so he took a little heat off me.)
Sometimes even the best answer is still wrong but something had to be done. I like TR's quote about critics at times like those.
Justsaws
Addicted to ArboristSite
Would this uneven hinge influence the fall of the tree toward A or B ?
On a "telephone pole" it could influence the fall towards A.
Would not want to bet the house, barn or truck on it, unless it is a Chevy.
Justsaws
Addicted to ArboristSite
I really thought there would only be one answer to this simple question.
For me in my experience the answer would be "could". Doing things to influence the fall beyond the face cut seems to work better on trees that are larger in diameter than the average telephone pole. That has been my experience with the typical hardwoods that I deal with. They will repeatedly pull the thicker part of an uneven hinge before it seems to have much influence on the direction of the fall.
Blakesmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
Apparently there was some serious debate on this. lol I have no idea why. Both your hinge and your face will affect the fall. As will lean and how the tree is weighted. There are no absolutes. Saying your hinge cannot affect the lay is idiocy.
YouTube - murphy4trees's Channel
Well said.
I'm not doubting anyone here, which is why I still don't think I have an answer.
I really didn't think there would be any discussion.
Good video, Daniel. I would have called it conclusive if you hadn't cut the hinge on one side.
I guess I'll just have to trudge out through the snow or wait for a thaw to experiment with it myself. I'll try to find 2 similar trees and do a comparison on video.
I really didn't think there would be any discussion.
Good video, Daniel. I would have called it conclusive if you hadn't cut the hinge on one side.
I guess I'll just have to trudge out through the snow or wait for a thaw to experiment with it myself. I'll try to find 2 similar trees and do a comparison on video.
We use that kind of hinge very often here. Done properly, it can really pull the tree towards A. Very usefull. It is not always easy but most of the guys I train get it easily (teaching lumbering is part of my job). Those who beleive it has no influence might need some training... I've been into lumbering for 17 years and it's the first time I hear that a dissimetrical hinge has no influence! Seems some people here should let go of their computer and start using their chaisaw, for real!!!
I don't mean to offend anybody (sorry if I did) but I was astonished to read such a debate!
Take your chainsaw and give it a try...
I don't mean to offend anybody (sorry if I did) but I was astonished to read such a debate!
Take your chainsaw and give it a try...
dave k
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well Blakes, Oscar 4883,2 dogs and Gologit have given you an answer as well as a very clear post from Isna and Im happy to say without fear of contradiction after around 20 years of felling that a tree will go to the thicker side of the hinge in the conditions you describe.
Your a tough man to convince !!
Thanks for the vid link Pinemartin
Your a tough man to convince !!
Thanks for the vid link Pinemartin
Unlike yourself I will respectfully disagree. I've done it enough, and have seen others do it enough to know it effects the fall very little if any, all it does is add strength.
Why is it everyone that disagrees with me in this thread has something nice to say.:msp_rolleyes: This says alot about the intellect of those whom disagree with me, in this thread. Yes the felling cut can influence the tree to some degree, however the hinge will not pull the tree to one side, how could it, think about it a little more.
You can't learn. I wash my hands of this thread.
Wait till you cut that generic tree that has a piece of super strong wood in one side of the hinge. There is no answer to the diagram.
As the old timing pros said, there are too many variables.
Its dynamic #####es.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
I think we are having a problem with terminology. Pull, swing, hinge, holding wood mean different things to different people. Just check out how many terms there are for just facecuts.
If the tree leans to the left of the lay, a thicker hinge (holding wood) on the right, will pull the tree toward the center. The facecut determines direction of fall, the hinge/holding wood is used to influence the stem's movement in relation to the facecut. This is a simple view of what can be a very complex piece of work.
It is tough to explain this with text, much easier at the base of a tree.
2Dogs is correct, Andy is too, so are some others. There just isn't one answer, although that won't stop the debate.
If the tree leans to the left of the lay, a thicker hinge (holding wood) on the right, will pull the tree toward the center. The facecut determines direction of fall, the hinge/holding wood is used to influence the stem's movement in relation to the facecut. This is a simple view of what can be a very complex piece of work.
It is tough to explain this with text, much easier at the base of a tree.
2Dogs is correct, Andy is too, so are some others. There just isn't one answer, although that won't stop the debate.
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