Hobby Farm & Logging Priorities.

[weimedog]

Typical day. A discussion on approach to felling "compromised" maple with taps and a hollow. This one started with me wanting to show the differences between running a 562 vs. 572 in these maples where the sap is just pouring out and the chips plus sap jams up the B&C. Ended up somewhere else. But the concept is sound. I'll do another someday with just a set of clips. I have around 50 like this first tree, one with a 572 another 562.

 

[catbuster]

Welp, you posted, and you’re on you way to get roasted.

Start: Safety is fine, until it takes you out of business wondering what happened. Why don’t your cuts match? And why in the hell would you start with the scarf cut?

2:18: That’s why you trim the root flare before you do anything with a face or a back cut.

3:03: I take the time to trim flares before I cut the tree. It’s not going to count for log value, so why not just get it out if the way?

5:05: You’re proud of how a hardwood hinge broke? Come on man.

5:52: Glad to see you can spout iff basic silviculture knowledge.

6:24: @northmanlogging is living rent free in your head, I see.

7:05: No joke Mr. Obvious, nobody wants to hit metal.

9:45: I’m glad your videos aren’t how tos, especially if the way the tree goes over doesn’t matter. That doesn’t seem very safe to me…

10:15: You’ve shown to be plenty arrogant here, and you’ve told plenty of people on here that the way you cut wood is superior, just saying…

13:50: Why stand back when you hear the wind picking up? Get it over so you’re out of the danger zone if it comes up any more.

20:15 Time saved is time saved, period. A couple minutes per tree over a hundred trees puts a lot os trees on the ground and bucked.

21:45: You said it yourself, it’s a hobby, not high production. Why argue with production fallers about what works best for that application? Geez man, stop being an instigator. Everybody looks at these things through their own lens. No need to pick on a production oriented guy about what works best for them.

26:00 You know it’s hard on both the tree and the loader when you hit the tree right?

Man, I appreciate you putting yourself out there, but you are so far from what a lot of people are talking about and what they’re doing here you need to chill out with the “my way is better.”

 

[northmanlogging]

Typical day. A discussion on approach to felling "compromised" maple with taps and a hollow. This one started with me wanting to show the differences between running a 562 vs. 572 in these maples where the sap is just pouring out and the chips plus sap jams up the B&C. Ended up somewhere else. But the concept is sound. I'll do another someday with just a set of clips. I have around 50 like this first tree, one with a 572 another 562.

I watched most of it. The only thing I'm going to mention
Yer not a fan of the full wrap bars, because you are not using them, you keep using it like a 1/2 wrap saw, then yeah they are just decoration. That is all

 

[weimedog]

Welp, you posted, and you’re on you way to get roasted.

Start: Safety is fine, until it takes you out of business wondering what happened. Why don’t your cuts match? And why in the hell would you start with the scarf cut?

2:18: That’s why you trim the root flare before you do anything with a face or a back cut.

3:03: I take the time to trim flares before I cut the tree. It’s not going to count for log value, so why not just get it out if the way?

5:05: You’re proud of how a hardwood hinge broke? Come on man.

5:52: Glad to see you can spout iff basic silviculture knowledge.

6:24: @northmanlogging is living rent free in your head, I see.

7:05: No joke Mr. Obvious, nobody wants to hit metal.

9:45: I’m glad your videos aren’t how tos, especially if the way the tree goes over doesn’t matter. That doesn’t seem very safe to me…

10:15: You’ve shown to be plenty arrogant here, and you’ve told plenty of people on here that the way you cut wood is superior, just saying…

13:50: Why stand back when you hear the wind picking up? Get it over so you’re out of the danger zone if it comes up any more.

20:15 Time saved is time saved, period. A couple minutes per tree over a hundred trees puts a lot os trees on the ground and bucked.

21:45: You said it yourself, it’s a hobby, not high production. Why argue with production fallers about what works best for that application? Geez man, stop being an instigator. Everybody looks at these things through their own lens. No need to pick on a production oriented guy about what works best for them.

26:00 You know it’s hard on both the tree and the loader when you hit the tree right?

Man, I appreciate you putting yourself out there, but you are so far from what a lot of people are talking about and what they’re doing here you need to chill out with the “my way is better.”

I did put myself intentionally as goalie for the dart team because of the hard push for a singular approach and a one size fits all argument, and only the current crop of popular regulars on a forum are the end all experts. For being an "azz hole" to counter the drive to drown out any decent, I own that and at some level apologize. But not really. I needs to happen. if anyone's feelers were hurt, but look at the response to not my content, OTHER experts on the subjects content. That thread needs to be an actual discussion, not the attack like the white blood cells some foreign body who doesn't adapt or conform to the popular narrative. I don't do that, never said mine is better for a production guy in another part of the country in fact I acknowledged the time spent isn't a production mind set. BUT I will tell u, setting up the tree and hinge is about caring how the tree falls and having the patience to evaluate before lettings the tree go. So not sure where your coming from on that. It's all about that.

So is it arrogant to articulate the approach and why? If so, that means everyone who articulates an approach and why is arrogant with your definition if it doesn't fit "herd" mentality. And for my part I didn't take credit for what I do as that would be arrogant, I learned from local pro's and production fellers. So the point I made was I with an open mind learn and evaluate. If that is the current millennial definition of arrogance we are screwed as a nation. The borg are here.

It seems from the approach you defined objectionable ANY one who pushes back , articulates a different approach that is deemed " far from what a lot of people are talking about and what they’re doing here " is arrogant. And that is exactly what I reacted to. If a whole herd of GOL guys were talking crap about the western style I would have the same reaction. Point from the get go was the conform or your stupid or arrogant was the thing that puts me right in this type of discussion. Gladly. With you as well.

But to set the record straight, Never pitch my way is better for someone in a different place, in fact made a point of saying different scenario's have different definitions of win, and said even over there those guys obviously were excellent at what they do. And I wasn't pointing out my way with the post, I intentionally picked a local expert who has trained thousands, and my entire argument was about folks to get trained by local experts. Here it's GOL, there it's certifications. So you heard & processed what you wanted to because YOU want to be offended, want to call who ever pushes back arrogant. But thank you for watching the video, and actually adding feed back.

But the bottom line is for some, any push back is arrogance and annoying, a my way or the highway. And my argument, if you actually read it ; was every place has local experts. and my pitch was to learn from THEM not the online experts regardless of their credentials. I actually got chastised for adapting an approach both taught, accredited for certification and common here....is it arrogant to adopt that? To say it's valid? Acknowledge the validity for all regions to develop their best practices? If so I gladly wear the title.

As far as root flares, I often do, when I'm using the winch I'll do that at the landing , less likely the choker slides off on the muddy logs. I have no idea what you are talking about when you say I don't care about how the tree goes. What I do is all about that, just the approach I've adopted means plan and get things right then release and LEAVE so you aren't around the base of the tree as it begins it's journey, when stuff usually shakes or breaks from above. Not interested in watching **** come down as I try to real time build a hinge I can do with proper planning and a bore cut. Hey, that's me. Sticking to it. I chased trees for 40 plus years.

 

[weimedog]

I watched most of it. The only thing I'm going to mention
Yer not a fan of the full wrap bars, because you are not using them, you keep using it like a 1/2 wrap saw, then yeah they are just decoration. That is all

Actually I love my 572 full wrap. Have a 572 and 394 full wrap. Next video is all about that. The issue I have is with those tree's I have with really pronounced root flares, when I try to cut low, they hit the root flare.. SO I usually just cut a little higher or do as I did in the video and cut the root flares to make room. So the thing I pointed out was the 1/2 wrap lets me cut the stumps lower or in the situation like the first one in the video, cut low felling so I don't have to come back later & also get a little more "tree".

I have to admit I think the tree's in and around are a little unique that way, most aren't as pronounced. Point being everywhere has little twists unique

A couple of times today and yesterday I assumed the area around the root flare would be crap, only to cut and find out it was solid & actually still good wood, so lost 6-8 inches. No big deal, but it does add up.

But thanks for having the patience to watch, curious how you would approach that first one.

 

[weimedog]

Actually most of the "production" guys here give me **** for the 28, as they do most f that stuff with a 20 or 24. As I had said often I'm not good enough to get the cuts from both sides to match so I adapted to the longer bar and it works for me.

 

[northmanlogging]

Actually I love my 572 full wrap. Have a 572 and 394 full wrap. Next video is all about that. The issue I have is with those tree's I have with really pronounced root flares, when I try to cut low, they hit the root flare.. SO I usually just cut a little higher or do as I did in the video and cut the root flares to make room. So the thing I pointed out was the 1/2 wrap lets me cut the stumps lower or in the situation like the first one in the video, cut low felling so I don't have to come back later & also get a little more "tree".

I have to admit I think the tree's in and around are a little unique that way, most aren't as pronounced. Point being everywhere has little twists unique

A couple of times today and yesterday I assumed the area around the root flare would be crap, only to cut and find out it was solid & actually still good wood, so lost 6-8 inches. No big deal, but it does add up.

But thanks for having the patience to watch, curious how you would approach that first one.

learn to cut by "brail" use the dogs to get purchase and cut the side away from you, then it really doesn't matter how long the bar is, though... there are limits...
without seeing the first tree in person, but going with your desired fall direction, I wouldn't of birds mouthed it, just a humboldt since the face cut would come from the tall side of the stump, but also, whenever falling into other trees, humboldt face will act like a wheel chock, keep it from back slipping. anyway, I'd probably do all my cuts from the "safe" side of the tree as well, hence the full wrap, less walking around meaning less fatigue, and better accuracy, not a big deal for 1-2 hard wood trees in a day, but can be a game changer if there is loads of limbing.
As for back cuts, I rarely leave a trigger, but I'd probably use a coos bay or something similar cut up most of the off side, then dog in and giver wah in the near side. leave when I see movement.

Actually most of the "production" guys here give me **** for the 28, as they do most f that stuff with a 20 or 24. As I had said often I'm not good enough to get the cuts from both sides to match so I adapted to the longer bar and it works for me.

Theres a somewhat misguided idea that short bars cut faster, its wrong on like so many levels but thats the common thought (another one of those "my pappy said" bs )
And I guess if you never cut anything over say 26" then a short bar would be all you ever needed... until you didn't
but yeah, learn how to cut the off side, it will make your cutting both more efficient, but also allow you to stay on the safe side of a tree be it up hill or out from under widow makers, and speeds things up not to mention less brush to swamp out if you never need to work from the other side of said tree... no need to create escape paths on the side you won't be at.

 

[northmanlogging]

You probably guessed by now, I have a pretty huge problem with folks that use their age or xxx years of experience to tell other folks how it should be done, and I admit I come of sounding that way at times.
Nothing worse then passing on wrong methods, and misinformation, simply because, "this is how its always been done" (the most expensive sentence in any industry)
So yeah, never trust anyone wearing a suit or a cowboy hat, both are trying to sell you something you don't need or want.

 

[weimedog]

learn to cut by "brail" use the dogs to get purchase and cut the side away from you, then it really doesn't matter how long the bar is, though... there are limits...
without seeing the first tree in person, but going with your desired fall direction, I wouldn't of birds mouthed it, just a humboldt since the face cut would come from the tall side of the stump, but also, whenever falling into other trees, humboldt face will act like a wheel chock, keep it from back slipping. anyway, I'd probably do all my cuts from the "safe" side of the tree as well, hence the full wrap, less walking around meaning less fatigue, and better accuracy, not a big deal for 1-2 hard wood trees in a day, but can be a game changer if there is loads of limbing.
As for back cuts, I rarely leave a trigger, but I'd probably use a coos bay or something similar cut up most of the off side, then dog in and giver wah in the near side. leave when I see movement.

Theres a somewhat misguided idea that short bars cut faster, its wrong on like so many levels but thats the common thought (another one of those "my pappy said" bs )
And I guess if you never cut anything over say 26" then a short bar would be all you ever needed... until you didn't
but yeah, learn how to cut the off side, it will make your cutting both more efficient, but also allow you to stay on the safe side of a tree be it up hill or out from under widow makers, and speeds things up not to mention less brush to swamp out if you never need to work from the other side of said tree... no need to create escape paths on the side you won't be at.

Yup to cutting off side, that second tree was hollow, my fear on it was for the rot to cave in, so did all the work from the side I thought would most likely stay intact.

You are prolly right on the birds mouth vs. humboldt on a lot of those as they break quick and clean, especially the soft maples I like seeing them slide off the stump so actually do a humbloldt fairly often, always when I think I can get enough "angle". The bird mouth is when I get nervous about pulls. Sneaks up on me where two break clean them one pulls a foot even two right out of the heart with a reasonable hinge. I used to bore cut a little from the front. Now have been trying less hinge thickness & more open face so the hinge breaks before the hinge closes as on those stringer trees when that hinge closes it either breaks or pulls. Then for a while on stringy ash a wide open face as that was all that consistently worked & was suggested by the ones with the checks. Kind of got there trial and error (pulls) Imagine you have seen more than a few.

 

[weimedog]

You probably guessed by now, I have a pretty huge problem with folks that use their age or xxx years of experience to tell other folks how it should be done, and I admit I come of sounding that way at times.
Nothing worse then passing on wrong methods, and misinformation, simply because, "this is how its always been done" (the most expensive sentence in any industry)
So yeah, never trust anyone wearing a suit or a cowboy hat, both are trying to sell you something you don't need or want.

We can agree exactly on that which is why I reacted as I did. Just on the other side of the discussion this time, BUT what you defined is how I am. With respect to John Adler, his business is teaching, like a preacher; has to believe and evangelize. I have to say I argued against that stuff for decades. I remember saying stuff like "That guy must have a stake in the bar tip business " ( Bore cutting reference ) All I knew went back to pulp wood days which, frankly was really limited, chased trees for decades. Just as an old fart I don't have a problem anymore listening, and picked and choose 20 years until I ended up where I am. I honestly don't have a dog in the hunt. Just react to the condescending approach as you would. ( did )

 

[weimedog]

And, I have to admit I'm slowed way down, 6 to 8 trees out of that swamp is a good afternoon. And usually the day anymore for me. Have to understand the felling is the fun part. Time flies, enjoy your craft while you can. Can remember when that would embarrass me. Now feel fortunate to being able to continue the thing I really enjoy doing.

 

[catbuster]

No, your arrogance shows from dying on the hill of the GOL. I read like this: Matt and many others state the Humboldt is better for production falling, especially large trees in their area. You took issue with it, and proceed to instigate an argument about how the GOL is better and safer, period. Matt, and many others disagree. That’s where I think you felt attacked, and start arguing that it just is safer. Matt, and others disagree. You then argue the merits of the 3/4 wrap handlebar, which to be clear, you are not getting the full benefit of.

It’s okay to disagree on many things. Where it comes from shoving it down others’ throats, even if it’s an attempt at being a vocal minority, unless it deals with human rights, it’s just being a ****. I don’t care about who’s saying what, this is a message board on the internet.

I’ll state my position clearly: I think the GOL/bore cutting is a tool. I also think many people use it as a crutch and believe it’s inherently safer. I think west coast cutting techniques requires a higher degree of refinement, “feel” for the tree and skill than the GOL, especially in tubby hardwood species. I also believe it may be better for hobbyists. If you’d like to see some examples of a guy cutting hardwood trees safely with west coast techniques here, look at some of rwoods’ postings. If you want to see some conventional faces and cut setups, look at any arborist’s stumps and many stumps produced by the FS anywhere but the wet side of R6. The GOL has benefits, and those groups take advantage of them. But it’s not as effective for production falling.

 

[weimedog]

No, your arrogance shows from dying on the hill of the GOL. I read like this: Matt and many others state the Humboldt is better for production falling, especially large trees in their area. You took issue with it, and proceed to instigate an argument about how the GOL is better and safer, period. Matt, and many others disagree. That’s where I think you felt attacked, and start arguing that it just is safer. Matt, and others disagree. You then argue the merits of the 3/4 wrap handlebar, which to be clear, you are not getting the full benefit of.

It’s okay to disagree on many things. Where it comes from shoving it down others’ throats, even if it’s an attempt at being a vocal minority, unless it deals with human rights, it’s just being a ****. I don’t care about who’s saying what, this is a message board on the internet.

I’ll state my position clearly: I think the GOL/bore cutting is a tool. I also think many people use it as a crutch and believe it’s inherently safer. I think west coast cutting techniques requires a higher degree of refinement, “feel” for the tree and skill than the GOL, especially in tubby hardwood species. I also believe it may be better for hobbyists. If you’d like to see some examples of a guy cutting hardwood trees safely with west coast techniques here, look at some of rwoods’ postings. If you want to see some conventional faces and cut setups, look at any arborist’s stumps and many stumps produced by the FS anywhere but the wet side of R6. The GOL has benefits, and those groups take advantage of them. But it’s not as effective for production falling.

I guess this is progress. You didn't say "For anyone reading this, at any time: Don’t do anything the guy above me said he did." As you did with Fireman Bill's ash thread. For that matter you infact agree it's a valis tool concept

But Love it, and this is perfect. "your arrogance shows from dying on the hill of the GOL." Guess that's my point. GOL is simply a tool and I think I introduced that concept into a prior "argument" . For me to point that out and argue the case as aggressively as those who oppose it makes me "arrogant" where someone arguing their case isn't. My point has always been folks will develop their approach and for some area's one approach or another is the "right" tool for them. I end up at a GOL "style" approach with a focus on the trigger wood concept and it works for me. And you see it as arrogant when I point that out and also point out why another doesn't fit how I prefer to work. Your argument is still based on herd mentality. Conform, say compliant things or your "arrogant". Like I said, sounds like millennial logic to me What would you do on those old over mature 25 to 28 at the base maples. You have examples in a form you can actually demonstrate vs. type about? Maples not pine or cotton wood?

Mr. northmanloggin laid out exactly what he would do as that's his life, and also noted "without seeing the first tree in person, but going with your desired fall direction, I wouldn't of birds mouthed it, just a humboldt since the face cut would come from the tall side of the stump " To me that was a class response ( not wanting you to change the approach or posture please ) and as a pro there was that disclaimer because we ALL know from afar it's tough to see everything that may impact the approach. He would see the root flares and adapt is my guess. Look close and the only way for me to do a "pure" humboldt with that saw is to either accept less face angle, move up the tree, or god forbid use a saw with a 1/2 wrap. We may disagree at some minutia or the final cut I'm sure, but my bet is he would roll right in and do exactly what he said, successfully. Then we might argue over 3 to 4 inches of tree that may or may not even matter. lol. And my guess is on the NEXT one like that should he care to continue, it would be honed closer to optimal.

Me? I'll put it right out there as well ( did ) goalie for the dart team , will happily argue or as you say "dying on the hill" which means conviction in the face of decent. I listen and try and modify my approach gladly when there is an improvement for Me ( not some keyboard expert ). In fact have. And I can also tell you there are plenty of "production" loggers here who use both approaches, some "evolved" to Humboldt some not. The "GOL" part I adapted wasn't about the "open face" or hinge even humboldt as much as GOL is about the trigger wood. For me it is safer. The maples often have limb tied brittle branches. So staying under the tree as it starts to move increases the chance of something you didn't catch in the "sizing" up of the job enters your world in a bad way, much like those who really don't understand buy will attempt to batter you into submission into some herd. So I will "arrogantly" stay with that approach and argue against conformity defined by chasing tree's. My face cuts evolve and have for 20 years. From conventional to open face ( way open on ash) to humboldt based on learning from a famous youtuber, back to a hybrid that "conforms" more the the shape of the ground with a open enough face cut to minimize pulls. If I can fit a pure humboldt...that's what I do. If not a "bird mouth", and on some I use a cut in the root flare with an open face. ( yes I do cut the root flares, use them for the hinge sometimes, they are trim wood anyway )

So mr. "cat" , who's really "arrogant" here? Who designated YOU the expert to make that type of decision for everyone on this board. TO evaluate and decide what works for all here. To define best practices in ANY area other than your own? On the face of it I'll choose the GOL folks over your assessment because they live and work and train here. It's their focus same as it's 'northmans out where ever he is. One other thing. The GOL folks may not be right for everyone, but they do have to train to the "lowest common denominator" on situations and skill sets. And have been quite successful in that. You know how I know? They are still in business and their classes for certification are tough to get into. Me? Because I try stuff, I'll take 'northmans approach and do the NEXT ugly maple and try that...again. But this time I'll put a camera right there to see how the face angle / wheel chock effect looks up close and personal, then report

 

[northmanlogging]

We can agree exactly on that which is why I reacted as I did. Just on the other side of the discussion this time, BUT what you defined is how I am. With respect to John Adler, his business is teaching, like a preacher; has to believe and evangelize. I have to say I argued against that stuff for decades. I remember saying stuff like "That guy must have a stake in the bar tip business " ( Bore cutting reference ) All I knew went back to pulp wood days which, frankly was really limited, chased trees for decades. Just as an old fart I don't have a problem anymore listening, and picked and choose 20 years until I ended up where I am. I honestly don't have a dog in the hunt. Just react to the condescending approach as you would. ( did )

my problem with Mr Adler, is that he teaches from the "THIS IS THE ONLY WAY" all others are WRONG attitude, then uses his age and "experience" to reinforce his view points. Frankly its bull ****. As I've reiterated many times, the methods are sound, but they are not the only way, and that method of teaches forces people to approach things in a set fashion.

Bunch of neat stories from some old man with a soothing voice sure, one bull headed opinion from an aging blowhard hidden behind a grey beard and a calm demeanor. Still a blow hard.

That you got butt hurt for me calling Mr. Adler a blow hard, well... thats on you.

FYI, I too have going on 40 years of playing with chainsaws and logging, I've known several guys that were killed doing this, and many more that were seriously injured. And I'll note: none have ever been seriously hurt while I was onsite, logging at least... seen a bunch of idiots get hurt machining, however, not while I was their lead/supervisor/manager. Granted Logging isn't the only thing I've done, but its always been there.

OH wait, not entirely true, I sprained my acl and got a wonderful compression fracture jumping off a log... onto a steep bank (this was the moment I had to realize that A I'm older then I look, and B I'm over 300# and carrying a 30# saw jumping 7' to a sketchy landing isn't exactly wise... But I used to do that sort of thing without ever thinking about it... granted the sever arthritis in what used to be my good leg is the root cause of said sprain and fracture... but lets not think about that, there's work to be done.

 

[weimedog]

I get that, and feel the same with any ""THIS IS THE ONLY WAY" all others are WRONG attitude" presented, even if it isn't from Mr. Adler.

The assumption i was and am still "butt hurt" kind of misses it. LOL TO say more just gets me in trouble with the moderator.

I respect Mr. Adler as I would any one who put their life's work into that line of work, and there are more than a few. There is a difference between discrediting and disagreeing with discussion. I reacted exactly as u said you did to the "one way" in a form that changed the discussion. And I would call anyone a "blow hard" if they preach a method at the exclusion of all other "proven" approaches in their respective regions. My perspective from years of life, there are NO shortage of very smart people. That extends into this business, so I trust every region has folks who have done as Mr Adler has on the research side. Whether I like the approach to articulating that or not doesn't discredit the strategies for me. As I said before, I'm shameless when it comes to learning. No pride. And would hope folks would respect that and understand I'm all for actual discussion why folks do one thing or another but ultimately it's THEIR decision, not mine. I choose what I do and others may do something different. All good. The fun starts when folks do the what? "THIS IS THE ONLY WAY" all others are WRONG attitude" approach to that discussion.

For your part, adding an approach as you did and why; IS discussion, so all the other stuff that goes with is the price for discussion with you. So its worth it. Others where there is NO actual useful information, just petty crap; while actually entertainment , not particularly useful to anyone.

At least your "knee" incident can be wrapped in some kind of athleticism, I fell out of a tractor skidding on a muddy hill side like a greased pig and my arm hung up in the door. Like dropping a bucket full of rocks stopped by a rope and my arm was only a string. Tore everything but the worst part was tearing the peck muscle completely off. That hurt and cost money.

 

[northmanlogging]

At least your "knee" incident can be wrapped in some kind of athleticism, I fell out of a tractor skidding on a muddy hill side like a greased pig and my arm hung up in the door. Like dropping a bucket full of rocks stopped by a rope and my arm was the string. Tore everything but the worst part was tearing the peck muscle completely off. That hurt and cost money.

at one time... I guess I was "athletic" though I would of never described myself as graceful lol.
Now, I have to plan my route to the crummy and back, both knees are a mess, one because of a drunk driver, the other from making up for its neighbor, and doing really idiotic stuff because I could, like jumping over chasims and house sized boulders, long before anyone heard of Parkour, Football, and the SCA, wearing a full suit of armor while hacking at yer buddies... real armor isn't has heavy as folks think, but its still pretty damned heavy, then to run like an idiot through forests and fields while trying to not get knocked out is... well dumb, and hard on the knees.. but a lot of fun
Got my fair shore of numbskull stuff too... once hopped out of a moving truck simply because I didn't feel like walking back to the party... didn't realize dude was going like 30mph, I could run fast, but not that fast... Ironically were still friends, though He lives in CT now.
To say nothing of 20 years of punk rock and fist fighting skin heads... (who have never fought fair BTW always like 5 against one with those cowards)

 

[weimedog]

That's cool stuff. Most of my injury was not really fun or glamorous as the slip (slop) and fall trying to exit a tractor FORWARD vs. the three point as I said. Or having a 3 inch barber wire fragment from a road side mowing incident shot into my arm, threaded up a major tendon like a worm on a hook. Another painful and expensive incident. Or the 30 plus years on and off racing dirt bikes. One hip replacement later looking for number two, and the raspberry branch raked across the eye is a 20 year past due with interest sending me to the medical institutions again, just got that last log load out....why I have time to type! Just life I guess. Hoping to get back in the woods. Have a rather sizable "ash" job to do, bug got them. Now need to salvage as much as possible on a couple of farms.

Actually would be fun to hear some of those stories. Get to a certain age, kind of hard NOT to have stuff.

 

[weimedog]

Log sale Friday, spent the day bucking and cleaning up those logs. Talk to two of the buyers about the subject at hand....and the message was "keep doing what you are doing", or to be more accurate, "Keep doing what we told you to do" . Yeah, that's the 572 with a full wrap sitting on the log , hard to see actually. Pretty tiny little saw

 

[056kid]

Actually most of the "production" guys here give me **** for the 28, as they do most f that stuff with a 20 or 24. As I had said often I'm not good enough to get the cuts from both sides to match so I adapted to the longer bar and it works for me.

If your handlebar gets in the way, try using it like a pivot just as you would the dawgs. You'll have less leverage, but the saw will feed.

As for the locals,
Tell them that they can't miss what they don't know. There is no reason to run a 20" bar unless you're physically unable to tote the weight. If that's the case you're probably not cut out for the F&B. The first outfit I cut for provided the saws. I spent more than enough time behind a 20" bar to know that it's absurdity on all accounts. Especially when bucking big leads off of big hardwoods & having to be balls deep all of the time.
I've never passed up an opportunity to make the more outspoken game of logging guys around me look like clowns. Slooow clowns..
The sanctimony vanishes when they realize that their ideas are all bunk.
For some reason, they all think that a modern pro saw isn't powerful enough to pull anything more than 24" in their hardwood. As if GOL practices are ever contingent on a fast cutting saw, lol.
Next up is the notion that hardwoods can't be backcut straight-up. If you send everything down the mountain, maybe. If you counter natural lean with a hinge, no (obviously!) Guess what! Most east coasters dump everything down the hill.. Might as well just stumpjump if you're letting nature take the lead.
I'd have to say that I have more respect for the stumpjumpers than the GOLers. They get more production, even if the woods look like a category 5 hurricane did the cutting..
Maybe I'm just ignorant. After all, I've never attended a GOL seminar. My boss back then knew better. Probably thought I'd cause a scene haha.

 

[056kid]

You probably guessed by now, I have a pretty huge problem with folks that use their age or xxx years of experience to tell other folks how it should be done, and I admit I come of sounding that way at times.
Nothing worse then passing on wrong methods, and misinformation, simply because, "this is how its always been done" (the most expensive sentence in any industry)
So yeah, never trust anyone wearing a suit or a cowboy hat, both are trying to sell you something you don't need or want.

Reminds me of the career logger who's son I worked with.
Over 45 years in the woods & the guy doesn't know how to tune a chainsaw. Like not even the first idea.. He fell a few trees for the neighbors & GOOD LOOORD the stumps are absolutely insane!! GOL no doubt.
I'll have to get some pictures.
Kinda bummed me out since I was not around to take the reins.

I have an ankle story as well.
I remember the morning that I stumbled upon the MOTHERLOAD of OG Ginseng plants. Roots the size of hotdogs!
Got so excited that I forgot how to do things with my legs & rolled my left ankle running off of a log. The "boss" was within earshot so I was hustling. Well, the fall ended my work day & my horticultural bonanza.

Years later I split that ankle joint apart (Maisonneuve fracture) & had a nice long recovery period. I sat for weeks & weeks with a soft cast & no drugs before being operated on due to swelling. No drugs because I lived alone & was a "fall risk". If I didn't have a pain tolerance I'd have probably assaulted the healthcare people.
Since then I've not rolled my left ankle once, which is a stark contrast from the days subsequent to the Ginseng incident. I could roll that ankle on flat ground.
Something was wrong with that ankle for a long time... The recovery time also fixed my knee that I had done something horrible to while skiing.