Hobby Farm & Logging Priorities.

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Hundred Acre Wood said:
I choose to cut slower because it's safer for me. I don't consider myself a slow clown. Being a one man operation, cutting only for myself, I have the luxury of going slow.

I understand not everyone has that luxury, but there's nothing wrong with taking your time if you can. Telling someone that "their ideas are all bunk" isn't really helping anyone be safer.
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Well I guess such ideas don't apply to you then do they?
Production cutting is all about doing more with less effort. Does what I posted look like more or less effort than the GOL procedure? When you aim to average 70 stems per day, you'll gain understanding on why the ideas are bunk.
 
056kid said:
Well I guess such ideas don't apply to you then do they?
Production cutting is all about doing more with less effort. Does what I posted look like more or less effort than the GOL procedure? When you aim to average 70 stems per day, you'll gain understanding on why the ideas are bunk.
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Speed and safety are opposing forces. Everyone finds the balance that works for them. It's not helpful to bash someone else's idea just because it doesn't work for you.
 
Hundred Acre Wood said:
Speed and safety are opposing forces. Everyone finds the balance that works for them. It's not helpful to bash someone else's idea just because it doesn't work for you.
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Gol works fine for me. It works as intended. But it just so happens that other ways work a whole lot better.
Stop acting like I was speaking direcrly to you, unless you're the founder of the game of logging technique. Then give it hell. 2:1 all day
 
Hundred Acre Wood said:
I choose to cut slower because it's safer for me. I don't consider myself a slow clown. Being a one man operation, cutting only for myself, I have the luxury of going slow.

I understand not everyone has that luxury, but there's nothing wrong with taking your time if you can. Telling someone that "their ideas are all bunk" isn't really helping anyone be safer.
Click to expand...
Same. While I appreciate the skill and even speed demonstrated , it's not dissuading me from the trigger wood approach. I guess the right question would be what is the definition of "win" ? Why would I abandon a working and proven safe approach for one that looks in fact to be exactly what I'm trying to avoid. The one place I do plan to "experiment again, is trying to see how small a face cut I can make on trees like the soft maples, the non stringy ones where they break more than pull. But I do that anyway. But I have no intentions of going back to cutting a hinge in real time trying to get that done around the base of the tree until the tree starts its fall. Nope. That is what I evolved away from. Even playing games with swing felling , Humboldt's when it fits etc. sticking to the set it up with hold wood, then after a look around will snip and leave.
 
056kid said:
Gol works fine for me. It works as intended. But it just so happens that other ways work a whole lot better.
Stop acting like I was speaking direcrly to you, unless you're the founder of the game of logging technique. Then give it hell. 2:1 all day
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First appreciate your input in particular. I have adapted the "trigger" part of GOL assuming that was it's origins. What all this points out over and over is different folks have a different definition of "better", I certainly appreciate what you demonstrated with that pine. No way in hell I'm going to scramble like that just to scramble yet again once the tree takes off. The thing I took away from that was combination of skill, saw power & setup, AND wood characteristics all make that work. Miss on one and it's not as slick. A hard maple in the winter isn't going to cut that fast with any saw I can hang onto. Certainly not to be able to cut to the hinge that thin unless its straight up and down and settles back on a wedge OR god forbid hold wood. My hunch is you would quickly adapt the face cut angle to match the wood were you here to minimize cut time & pulls if it were your wood as well. Skill certainly isn't at question here :) Just blending an approach to safely get wood on the ground, with the emphasis on "safe" for me. :) I guess part of the advantage of being an adult is I define "win" or "best" for me same as you do for you.

As an aside, just got back from a "procedure" will be down a while again. Pain has a way of re-enforcing the need for safe practices. This one a injury from racing dirt bikes 20 years ago. My log buyer is on the hill and I just was chatting with him on the subject of pulls face cuts and the like. His advise was keep doing what I'm doing in that regard, as on the "resell" logs we both win. SO I'll Still prolly tweak face cut angles and approaches to maximize the log. , and first day back will take a series of beech trees and cut them with different angles to demonstrate how it reacts to face cut depth and angles, and again revisit the discussion of what leaves the most log/ minimum stump.
 
056kid said:
By al means, do what you feel most comfortable, happiest doing! If it works, it works.
Can I ask, just how many limbs have you been assaulted by?
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Please don't stop making those videos btw. You obviously know your profession and bring a LOT to these discussions. Especially augmented by video. Would be curious to see a start to finish on the Dutchman deal from the "why" to the competed task To your question, I've had a couple come close to killing me in the chase years. None since the bore cut /trigger years. Your point is well taken it doesn't happen very often. But it only takes one to ruin your day,. Have to admit I don't like telling the stories, any more than I like showing the "fails" on video. BUT why not I guess..

Not a funny story, but true, had a young "logger" with a 4wd dump truck wanting to involve that in one of the hedgerow thinning jobs years back. I wanted to just do what I do (then, a tree chaser at that time ) and would get it down with wedges. He was determined to put a rope on it and give it a tug.. So not wanting to be offensive, I conceded. On the condition he wouldn't MOVE until I got out and told him too. Predictable in hind site that doesn't work with an amped to the moon young fellow. I got about 2/3rds done with the back cut. The "thud" I heard was a 8 inch diameter limb speared into the ground literally close enough to make me trip. The crash I heard was the tree...as I was sprinting away w/o my saw. You can imagine what he heard. I did get whacked across the shoulders once back in the chasing days. Knocked me flat. it was a brittle branch that just decided to drop as I was finishing the back cut. Didn't look bad from the ground. Didn't feel that great once it decided to put there. Just A few of those over the decades , I always blamed myself for not being able to see the situation. Age happened and I realize its simply statistics.. One of those not so funny luck stories was doing a video. And my bud asked me how did I get away with that? And I didn't know what until he pointed to the big branch behind me. I have that video in the archives, I missed it trying to be social and it missed me by about 2 ft. It came down from another tree and hit right about when the one I cut hit the ground. I was focused on MY tree...didn't even see it.
BTW NEVER had a pine tree or related species do that to me. Even as a kid cutting pulp wood. Always either an Ash tree or hard maple to this point in time.
 
Hundred Acre Wood said:
I choose to cut slower because it's safer for me. I don't consider myself a slow clown. Being a one man operation, cutting only for myself, I have the luxury of going slow.

I understand not everyone has that luxury, but there's nothing wrong with taking your time if you can. Telling someone that "their ideas are all bunk" isn't really helping anyone be safer.
Click to expand...
as for cutting slowly, 98% of the time I work solo, so I take my time, plan every step, and rethink when necessary, generally I can get a 1/2 load every day, in good wood a full load, cut and yarded.
Now, the other 2% I'm cutting with someone else, my best was 6 loads cut limbed and yarded in one day, it was pretty good wood though, average is about 3 working with someone else (usually someone in an excavator pushing and cleaning as we go)
 
northmanlogging said:
as for cutting slowly, 98% of the time I work solo, so I take my time, plan every step, and rethink when necessary, generally I can get a 1/2 load every day, in good wood a full load, cut and yarded.
Now, the other 2% I'm cutting with someone else, my best was 6 loads cut limbed and yarded in one day, it was pretty good wood though, average is about 3 working with someone else (usually someone in an excavator pushing and cleaning as we go)
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I would say this fits my world as a description. 100 percent solo from felling , skidding , bucking to selling then cleanup. My "production" is most influenced by the skidding part by far usually. Might spend as much as 5 minutes felling and then 45 minutes getting to the landing and back. I did one job where the turn was over an hour, in the dead winter I felt great to have 6 logs up and out on a day. HOPING this up coming job is as it looks maybe a 15 minute turn, 20 total with felling. Would be happy with 15 a day for the 30 tree's honestly, then a day bucking & cleaning things up. That's the plan at least.

I remember a snide if all u get is 6, why bother? Depends on the sale price. This last one averaged $900 a thousand. 18 trees netted around $3100. Not bad for a hobby job. About $170 a tree minus expenses. My "break point" is $400 a day to be worth it for me. :) Ash can bring anywhere from $500 ( Essentially firewood ) to over $1000 a thousand. All the tops are hobby time and they heat my home. & sell the rest. Mix that in with saw repairs, some saw sales ( junk pile to working fun saws) & the farm, it's a pretty nice hobby and it pays for itself. All I could ask.
 
weimedog said:
I would say this fits my world as a description. 100 percent solo from felling , skidding , bucking to selling then cleanup. My "production" is most influenced by the skidding part by far usually. Might spend as much as 5 minutes felling and then 45 minutes getting to the landing and back. I did one job where the turn was over an hour, in the dead winter I felt great to have 6 logs up and out on a day. HOPING this up coming job is as it looks maybe a 15 minute turn, 20 total with felling. Would be happy with 15 a day for the 30 tree's honestly, then a day bucking & cleaning things up. That's the plan at least.

I remember a snide if all u get is 6, why bother? Depends on the sale price. This last one averaged $900 a thousand. 18 trees netted around $3100. Not bad for a hobby job. About $170 a tree minus expenses. My "break point" is $400 a day to be worth it for me. :) Ash can bring anywhere from $500 ( Essentially firewood ) to over $1000 a thousand. All the tops are hobby time and they heat my home. & sell the rest. Mix that in with saw repairs, some saw sales ( junk pile to working fun saws) & the farm, it's a pretty nice hobby and it pays for itself. All I could ask.
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ever consider getting a proper skidder?
Ye ole tractor is fine and all, for a hobby, but tractors and woods work are a losing pair, the tractor simply isn't built for it, and the woods will fight it every step of the way, to say nothing of the lack of protection for the operator.
That and ye ole tractor, can pull what 1 maybe 2 good sized logs per turn? and that in low gear only? Skidder can pull 2 logs in a middle gear while crushing hills and shoving brush.
My ole Deere (the missus who got to spend the night at home last night...) has been clocked at 30mph in a school zone... and can drag a decent turn on flat ground at around 15 mph, and its a little skidder.
 
northmanlogging said:
as for cutting slowly, 98% of the time I work solo, so I take my time, plan every step, and rethink when necessary, generally I can get a 1/2 load every day, in good wood a full load, cut and yarded.
Now, the other 2% I'm cutting with someone else, my best was 6 loads cut limbed and yarded in one day, it was pretty good wood though, average is about 3 working with someone else (usually someone in an excavator pushing and cleaning as we go)
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quoting myself...
For context the 6 load day was an 084 and 50" bar day, so it didn't take long to stack up a pretty good pile of wood.
 
northmanlogging said:
ever consider getting a proper skidder?
Ye ole tractor is fine and all, for a hobby, but tractors and woods work are a losing pair, the tractor simply isn't built for it, and the woods will fight it every step of the way, to say nothing of the lack of protection for the operator.
That and ye ole tractor, can pull what 1 maybe 2 good sized logs per turn? and that in low gear only? Skidder can pull 2 logs in a middle gear while crushing hills and shoving brush.
My ole Deere (the missus who got to spend the night at home last night...) has been clocked at 30mph in a school zone... and can drag a decent turn on flat ground at around 15 mph, and its a little skidder.
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It's real easy to spend someone else's money. I have, need the flexibility of a farm tractor. It runs year around. BUT yes, every time I get in the "heat" of logging battle I start looking. Last time I got "serious" ended up with another excavator. Might go that route again end of this year as we go into another season and pick up a little more work coming out of hay season.
 
I only cut for my own firewood, and my little 25 hp utility tractor and loader do just fine for that. I also do volunteer work with a group that focuses on disaster relief across the country. They use large (tracked) skid steers with grapples and track hoes with thumbs. I worked with them a few weeks ago after an F3 went through parts of Indiana, and last year down in Kentucky. I'm always impressed at how effectively those machines (and their operators) can move the limbs and logs (and walls for that matter). When we were in Kentucky, we were working on the banks of Kentucky Lake and the terrain was ferocious. 4wd tractors were completely useless. In less than an hour, 2 of those guys had cut a new road all the way down to the edge of the water, and had it wrapped around what used to be a house. A sawyer worked with the track hoe to cut the trees into log length, and the operator would pick it up and set it behind him in the path they had already cleared. The skid steer would get downhill from the logs, spin or or two of them 90 deg, pick them up and run them up the hill to a landing area where other machinery would later drag them out to where the FEMA trucks could reach them. The hoe would use its blade to doze a road as it went which provided the skidsteers with a more stable area to work in. It was an impressive operation to be a part of, and it was obvious that those guys knew what they were doing. The point in all of this is that if a skid steer is set up correctly, it will move a LOT more timber than a tractor. If the equipment needs to serve double duty around the farm in order to pay for itself, get one that has the higher flow hydraulics so it can operate other types of equipment. Most of the farmers around here have machines like this that they use to redo waterways, creek crossings, and do all kinds of other work. Most of the machines around here have heat and AC in the cab which is also nice :)
 

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