How much slower is safety chain than full chisel?

[dadouthat]

I know that this was discussed on an earlier thread but I was surprised at how little data there seems to be on the cutting speed of modern safety chain (e.g. Stihl) versus chisel chain.. I plan to do my own tests when it warms up a little more (-34 F last night) but somewhere someone must have already done some quantitative comparisons. We measure everything else about chain saws, so why not this?

What I plan to compare is RMC3 vs RSC on a 280 in what is the standard firewood around here: dry spruce. We don't have anything else except birch so I can't compare performance in the really tough hardwoods.

 

[Pooh]

i just got into doing alot of cutting so take this for what its worth.

the last chain i bought was a safty chain, and never again. i didnt catch it till i got home and dont like it at all, and this is actually the first new chain i've bought. its now my stump and dirt chain, and its new. i even tried to take the safty bump down with a belt sander, which helped, but its still no chisel chain.

 

[2dogs]

Chisel means the type of cutter tooth. Standard chisel has a cutter shaped as a right angle. It can be square ground or round ground. It will most likely be some sort of saftety chain. There are many different types of safety features and some, such as triple humped tie straps, do slow the cutting speed down. A ramped depth guage is another safety feature that to me at least does not slow the cutting speed.

Your chain needs to fit your skill level and hopefully your dealer can help you decide which chain to use.

 

[JT78]

I think a lot of it depends on the type of safety chain I have used one kind that actually cut decent and another that I had to spend an hour filing on the bumper straps and rakers to get it to send chips instead of just dust. None of the safety chain I have played with cut as fast as some regular LGX or RSC.

 

[rmh3481]

The old style Oregon Pro Guard chain uses a chisel cutter that is round ground. I had bought it not knowing it was a safety chain and used it up on our .325 bars. The only thing I changed on it, was the depth gauge, which I felt was too high. I used a flat file and took the depth gauge and the guard top down at the same time. I did notice that the guard chains dont carry as much vibration back to my wrists. Sharpens with a 3/16 round file.
Best wishes,
Bob

 

[grizguy]

I know that this was discussed on an earlier thread but I was surprised at how little data there seems to be on the cutting speed of modern safety chain (e.g. Stihl) versus chisel chain.. I plan to do my own tests when it warms up a little more (-34 F last night) but somewhere someone must have already done some quantitative comparisons. We measure everything else about chain saws, so why not this?

What I plan to compare is RMC3 vs RSC on a 280 in what is the standard firewood around here: dry spruce. We don't have anything else except birch so I can't compare performance in the really tough hardwoods.

I don't think your gonna get a true test if you run a RMC3 which is a semi-chisel safety chain versus a RSC full chisel non-safety chain. Both chains would need to be either full chisel or semi-chisel to really see the difference between the safety and non-safety chain.

 

[dadouthat]

I don't think your gonna get a true test if you run a RMC3 which is a semi-chisel safety chain versus a RSC full chisel non-safety chain. Both chains would need to be either full chisel or semi-chisel to really see the difference between the safety and non-safety chain.

I agree with this but couldn't find the two type of Stihl chains that you suggest. I don't know of a full chisel safety chain in .325. I did do a quick and dirty test yesterday with only a few non-timed tests. The full chisel (non safety) wss brand new and the RMC3 was used but freshly sharpened (by hand by me and I don't have the best sharpening skills in the world). But even with that comparison which should have favored the chisel chain even more, I couldn't see much of a difference in cutting speed. I did a couple of quick tests for kickback and there was a distince differerence.

I plan to do timed tests when the days get milder and someone is checking with a stopwatch but at this point I'm not really too impressed with the difference in speed.

I also did some plunge cuts and I am baffled by the statements that they are difficult with safety chain. With RMC3 at least it certainly is not a problem in my experience and it also isn't with even the little MS 180 and whatever safety chain they come with off the shelf.

 

[JONSEREDFAN6069]

chuck the safety chain get some chisel and you wont regret it. makes a huge difference.

 

[grizguy]

Ahh I see, i didn't realize they don't offer a full chisel .325 safety chain, that's what i get for assuming.

 

[flatpikr]

Safety chains emit wood dust. Chisel chains toss wood chips.

 

[corsair4360]

Safety Chains vs Full Comp

I think this all goes back to the volume of chips that have to be carried in between the cutters. The safety chains protuberances take up volume, and reduce the space that the chips can occupy in a most unfortunate manner, they stick up right in the center of the space, so the chips have to be swept and crumbled into the space. Yes they do help with kickback at least the CPSC says so, and they do affect the cutting capability of the chain.

So if the safety chain is used on short cuts the less impact. The longer the cutter distance in the wood, the greater the reduction in cutting. Skip chains accentuate the difference even more, since the whole objective is more chip volume.

I make it a point to not buy them.

 

[Philbert]

Chisel means the type of cutter tooth. Standard chisel has a cutter shaped as a right angle. It can be square ground or round ground. It will most likely be some sort of saftety chain. There are many different types of safety features and some, such as triple humped tie straps, do slow the cutting speed down. A ramped depth guage is another safety feature that to me at least does not slow the cutting speed.

I don't think your gonna get a true test if you run a RMC3 which is a semi-chisel safety chain versus a RSC full chisel non-safety chain. Both chains would need to be either full chisel or semi-chisel to really see the difference between the safety and non-safety chain.

Thank you 2dogs and grizguy.

Please see http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/types.html#RMC

Compare RMC to RMC3, or RSC to RSC3. Otherwise you are comparing a sports car to a pickup truck and saying the difference is the tires.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Ahh I see, i didn't realize they don't offer a full chisel .325 safety chain, that's what i get for assuming.

Check with your STIHL dealer. The website does not list all the chain combinations.

Philbert

 

[willsaw4beer]

Safety chains eat raker files...

 

[Evan]

dont tell anyone but i cut the rakers off of my first 20" chain. im mean cut them off and left the cutters is all. one time in the wood pinned and well it came off and went in the trash.

i love agressive chains though and have lowred rakers on my rsc chain just a hair. cuts very good and self feed under hte saws weight when shes sharp.

 

[Pooh]

dadouthat

im still new to this whole chain saw thing, but.... the last chain i bought was safty chain in .325 and im not 100% on this but i think its full chisel, but i guess i should've looked at the box a little closer, and the guy helping me was clueless.

 

[dadouthat]

Compare RMC to RMC3, or RSC to RSC3. Otherwise you are comparing a sports car to a pickup truck and saying the difference is the tires.

Philbert



I think that I understand what you are saying about the comparison, but shouldn't the difference in speed between RMC3 and RSC be even greater than that between RSC and RSC3?

Again, based on my quick test, I didn't see any really big difference between out of the box sharp RSC and hand sharpened RMC3. If I'm not going to see a noticeable difference then, when would I? I'm not even sure that if I hadn't known which chain was on the saw, that I could have told from the 3 or 4 cuts that I made. But I will try a better set up with some real data as soon as I get a chance and the weather changes. It's still darned cold here.

Also, for anyone getting "dust" out of RMC3, how sharp was the chain? I assume that you were exaggerating in order to make a point about the speeds, but mine sure throws chips.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Don't forget the skill level factor eiether...chisel/RS chain grabs hard, can kick a saw back like a mule....hang on for the ride, don't look back!

 

[oldsaw]

I almost bought one once too. Kind of like the time I looked right at a jar of salted peanuts and ended up grabbing a jar of unsalted ones. Yuk.

When the local little Husky/hardware store shut down, they tried to sell me chains, gave me a good price, all were safety chains. I passed. They serve their purpose, but their intended market isn't me.

I even went to my old Stihl dealer before they were my "ex" dealer to get a repair link to mend a chain. The guy gave me a green triple hump jobbie. I asked him "what the $@!! is that?" but he insisted it was "all he had." So I asked him if he were going to have me grind off the safety hump rather than give me the right one, he said I could if I wanted. It was for a 36" loop on an 066. That was actually "strike one" for those guys.

Mark

 

[Wild Knight]

Compare RMC to RMC3, or RSC to RSC3. Otherwise you are comparing a sports car to a pickup truck and saying the difference is the tires.

Also, for anyone getting "dust" out of RMC3, how sharp was the chain? I assume that you were exaggerating in order to make a point about the speeds, but mine sure throws chips.

I ran the RMC (new) against the RMC3 (hand sharpened) and it was a night and day difference. The RMC pulled through the wood so much better it made me grin with upward curling edges. I will never buy a '3' chain (green box) again.