How much usable bar length?

[ShoerFast]

I'm building an Alaskan style mill attachment and would like to know how much of a 36" (PN: 3003 000 9653) bar will be usable attached to an MS660 , and an MS460 ?

I dont have the saws now but would like to weld it up.

Just knowing how much a 36" bar would cut , (dogs removed) is all i need to set my length.

 

[oldsaw]

About 31". I get 28" with my dogs on. I bought a 42" bar to get the full 36", but still use the 36" a lot on smaller logs.

Mark

 

[coveredinsap]

You'll want to leave about a palm's width (4") between where the bar exits the saw and the mill is attached to allow for use of the chain brake. Add to that the dimension of the tubing there, and you lose approx. 6" of bar length right there at the saw. On the other end it depends on what type of handle setup you incorporate, plus the tubing at that end, and you might as well figure another 6" ....so that totals around 10" - 12" max.

There is no need to remove the bucking spikes, as they're not in the way when you allow for the manual operation of the chain brake anyways....and the chain brake is a handy item when moving the running mill.

By the way, see the above photo? I found myself shying away from that stance and standing more behind the saw body with left hand on the trigger, right hand on the first upright (as opposed to the Granberg handle), and leaning into the saw body top handle with my right leg (or body depending on height). I also found myself sometimes standing even more behind the saw and pulling it thru the cut at a 45 degree angle. (The mill seemed to cut better with the bar angled back in the cut, so you may want to allow more bar length for that.) For whatever reason I did not like the stance shown in the above photo, probably because if it kicks or the chain breaks, protective chaps are moot.

 

[CaseyForrest]

You'll want to leave about a palm's width (4") between where the bar exits the saw and the mill is attached to allow for use of the chain brake. Add to that the dimension of the tubing there, and you lose approx. 6" of bar length right there at the saw. On the other end it depends on what type of handle setup you incorporate, plus the tubing at that end, and you might as well figure another 6" ....so that totals around 10" - 12" max.

There is no need to remove the bucking spikes, as they're not in the way when you allow for the manual operation of the chain brake anyways....and the chain brake is a handy item when moving the running mill.

By the way, see the above photo? I found myself shying away from that stance and standing more behind the saw body with left hand on the trigger, right hand on the first upright (as opposed to the Granberg handle), and leaning into the saw body top handle with my right leg (or body depending on height). I also found myself sometimes standing even more behind the saw and pulling it thru the cut at a 45 degree angle. (The mill seemed to cut better with the bar angled back in the cut, so you may want to allow more bar length for that.) For whatever reason I did not like the stance shown in the above photo, probably because if it kicks or the chain breaks, protective chaps are moot.

I get 22" with a 28" bar and have the mill right against the saw and the chain brake works just fine.

 

[Lakeside53]

I get 22" with a 28" bar and have the mill right against the saw and the chain brake works just fine.

My brake works fine with less than 1 inch gap from the front of the saw. I take my spike off also (660) just to give me the max cut. I get about 21 inches on a 28 inch bar but I'm real careful (and conservative) not to compress any part of the nose sprocket on my ES bar.

Sap - he's using a 460 or 660 - not what you use, so the 4 inches isn't needed.

 

[coveredinsap]

I get 22" with a 28" bar and have the mill right against the saw and the chain brake works just fine.

Huh? I'm looking at that picture of your saw above, and I can plainly see the palm's width clearance on the bar between where the bar exits the saw body and where the mill is clamped on the bar. There is an easy 3" or so plus the thickness of the mill barstock. And that looks like a bucking spike on the saw too. Mine is clamped on the bar in almost the exact same spot.

 

[CaseyForrest]

Sorry for the short post, the baby started crying, had to scoot.

Anyway, I have a GB 36" mill, mounted on the 066 with no spikes I can have the mill touching the oil tank and still have full operation of the brake. The nose is clamped in the center of the rivets for the nose sprocket. Just seemed like the 10" to 12" estimate was a little high, I lose 6" with the mill I have.

Just a side note, and flame me if you like. Having the chainbrake fully operational seems like a waste in milling anyway. If you have the nose of the bar in the mill, what can it come in contact with to cause a kickback? I am in no way advocating disabling the chainbrake, just that to me it seems a little over rated when using the saw while milling.

 

[ShoerFast]

Thanks so much for all the good input!

Every once in awhile, you need a day that you just can't make a mistake.

With all the ideas I went ahead and started chopping all the parts from a 12 feet of 1" x 2" square tubing. When all the little part were cut, I was either going to need more iron, or deal with what I had,,,,,,,, as it turned out, the last length chopped in half, gave me a 27 5/8th" cut, that put the nose clamp right on the ES replaceable roller splice and will give me a chain brake!

I need it to be sort of horse Prof, so it will pack well, so it's going to be a little over built, but I will try to get a couple pictures sometime this weekend.

If I may? I will need some input on setting the spacing / lumber size settings, as I'm going to use holes and pins?

Thanks

Kevin

 

[BIG JAKE]

Chain brake

Just a side note, and flame me if you like. Having the chainbrake fully operational seems like a waste in milling anyway. If you have the nose of the bar in the mill, what can it come in contact with to cause a kickback? I am in no way advocating disabling the chainbrake, just that to me it seems a little over rated when using the saw while milling.
__________________
MS 180
MS 460
066

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Last edited by CaseyForrest : Today at 08:08 PM.

Casey your setup looks pretty stout. The mill frame on either side of the kerf and the nose is completely encapsulated by the end cap with the bar sandwiched between steel posts on each side. So the nose can't contact the wood if everything is clamped down tight. With a good grip plus your weight behind it you'd have to tear the mill up it seems to allow that bar to come out and bite you unless your just starting into a little log. Seems like the mill rail would hit you in that event anyway. I'd never let my guard down though no matter how safe it seems. It's usually the unimagineable scenarios that get you sometimes. Has anyone had any close calls or injuries?

 

[CaseyForrest]

Just a side note, and flame me if you like. Having the chainbrake fully operational seems like a waste in milling anyway. If you have the nose of the bar in the mill, what can it come in contact with to cause a kickback? I am in no way advocating disabling the chainbrake, just that to me it seems a little over rated when using the saw while milling.
__________________
MS 180
MS 460
066

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by CaseyForrest : Today at 08:08 PM.

Casey your setup looks pretty stout. The mill frame on either side of the kerf and the nose is completely encapsulated by the end cap with the bar sandwiched between steel posts on each side. So the nose can't contact the wood if everything is clamped down tight. With a good grip plus your weight behind it you'd have to tear the mill up it seems to allow that bar to come out and bite you unless your just starting into a little log. Seems like the mill rail would hit you in that event anyway. I'd never let my guard down though no matter how safe it seems. It's usually the unimagineable scenarios that get you sometimes. Has anyone had any close calls or injuries?

I agree, everytime I pull the rope I go into heightend awareness mode. I had people walk up to me and around me while Im cutting and didnt know they were there because I was only paying attention to the saw.

 

[CaseyForrest]

Thanks so much for all the good input!

Every once in awhile, you need a day that you just can't make a mistake.

With all the ideas I went ahead and started chopping all the parts from a 12 feet of 1" x 2" square tubing. When all the little part were cut, I was either going to need more iron, or deal with what I had,,,,,,,, as it turned out, the last length chopped in half, gave me a 27 5/8th" cut, that put the nose clamp right on the ES replaceable roller splice and will give me a chain brake!

I need it to be sort of horse Prof, so it will pack well, so it's going to be a little over built, but I will try to get a couple pictures sometime this weekend.

If I may? I will need some input on setting the spacing / lumber size settings, as I'm going to use holes and pins?

Thanks

Kevin

If it were me, I would start at a 1/2" and go to 12" in 1/2 increments if you are going to use pins and holes. Think about this though, holes will eventually become elongated and allow movement in the mill, eventually giving you an uneven cut. Maybe add some sort of tensioning device to eliminate such movement.

 

[MikeInParadise]

Seeing as your are going to building your own

I started a thread with detail pictures of my Alaskan in the new milling section here in case you want to see how they built it

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=31937

 

[oldsaw]

Sap,
If you look closely, I'm just starting the cut. I'm behind the saw to make sure it is all straight and I'm not lifting or twisting the mill going into the cut. I've got my ample belly into the handle, and equalizing pressure on the mill handle. This stance only works for the first 6 to 8 inches of the cut, when you have the luxury of a large log.

BTW, I can't use the upright for a handle. If I push from the top it can twist the mill down and screw up the cut, and if I put my hand lower on the bar, I'm right in front of a dual port muffler whose output at WOT would have my forearm at close to medium rare at the end of a decent sized log.

Another BTW, I can't think of a time that your chain brake will help on a full size mill. The chain brake is activated by the saw coming up to your hand when it is on the top handle. You don't use the top handle when milling with a full size mill, so it isn't going to do you much good. However, with the bar tip fully enclosed, the chance of a kickback is less than zero anyway. However, that is just one thing you can take off your list, there are a hundred more you can't.

Mark

[/QUOTE]

 

[coveredinsap]

I use the chainbrake on my mill all the time. Whenever I pause cutting to place some wedges, I set the chainbrake. When I pause cutting to reposition my stance, I set the chainbrake. In between cuts, when the saw is out of the wood, I set the chainbrake. As for whether or not a kickback could occur....I don't know, but I look at it like an emergency brake on a vehicle. In an emergency, I'll be reaching for the chainbrake...and I want it working.

BTW, I can't use the upright for a handle. If I push from the top it can twist the mill down and screw up the cut, and if I put my hand lower on the bar, I'm right in front of a dual port muffler whose output at WOT would have my forearm at close to medium rare at the end of a decent sized log.

Hmmm, I stopped pushing the saw with the handle. I push the body of the saw with my thigh, and hold on to the top of the nearest upright to guide the saw....and the saw cuts with the bar angled back in the wood around 20 degrees or so.
Or I stand further back behind the saw (where you would normally stand if the saw was upright) and pull it thru the cut...pulling evenly on the saw body and the top of the nearest upright with the guide bar angled back in the cut even more...40 degrees or so. Sort of a modification of a normal bucking stance.

I rarely ever cut with the guide bar 90 degrees (perpendicular) to the wood.

But that's just my technique(s). Different strokes for different folks

Here's some examples of my mill going thru a log showing the angle of the guide bar: (The saw is running in these photos and the chain brake is set.)

 

[Lakeside53]

I can see why Sap would want to use a chain brake on that type of mill with an open end and exposed tip.

The Alaska Mk3 is enclosed on the end and the chain brake doesn't do anything to help. I'm with Big Jake on this one.. I don't bother to set mine, and I don't see any way for a "kick back" to occur.

 

[Newfie]

Its hard to dispense good advice when one guy is eating an apple while the rest of us have oranges.

On my 3120 I can get about 19.5" of cut out of a 24" bar. That is with the dogs removed and the end bar clamp set up in such a fashion as to not clamp on the bearings of the sprocket nose.

 

[Finnbear]

coveredinsap,
What kind of mill is that in the pics?
Finnbear