How to find honest firewood sellers??

[Swamp Yankee]

momof2nutlings

I've been selling firewood for 30 years, the CL hacks initially made it difficult to sell to new customers but they have more recently been my best salespeople. After dealing with the guys that only want enough to get a new dirt bike or build a truck people appreciate working with someone that is in it for the long haul. Being in it for the long haul means you have to treat your customers right. This year and for sure next in CT, finding wood is especially tough. There just isn't a lot of good wood available, and the drying conditions, due to the record rainfall, even when cut and split have been terrible. I have advised people of this fact before delivery and most understand. Irene came along in August, blew the tarps off my seasoned cut and split piles and then dropped 7+ inches of rain on them. My guess this is what happened to your second supplier, if so he should have told you up front and let you decide what to do. As to the first supplier there's no excuse for shorting people. Do mistakes happen, yes, but they should be handled quickly. If you haven't seen the guy by now, you're not going to.

Now to get back on topic, here's what I do to ease new customer's suspicions, and any reputable seller will do the same. First ask to be given at least 3 references from customers that have purchased for at least 3 years. If the seller hasn't been in business that long, then ask for people in the last 2 years. In short if he doesn't have regular repeat customers, move on. Second, demand to see the wood prior to delivery. The guy isn't trucking the stuff that far usually. I offer this to any and all customers. Some take me up, some take the fact I have nothing to hide as good faith, up to you if you visit or not. If they refuse, walk away. The pile of seasoned cut and split probably doesn't exist and they're simply cutting and splitting off a pile to order.

As to be being shorted by the first supplier, here's your recourse. By law, in the State of CT if a wood supplier sells more than 25 cord per year they are considered a commercial operation and must have the appropriate permits. Visit the CT DEEP website for full explanation. Call the first supplier and explain if he does not make the shortage right, you'll file a complaint with the DEEP. I know of one sleaze this happened to and the State made his life miserable with fines and appearances in Hartford.

Hope all works out for you, and remember, if you find a good supplier, treat them right too. Don't whine and complain because they're $15 more per cord than some unknown. Remember, you're using this wood to keep your family and biggest investment, your house, warm for the winter. Over a 5 month heating season $30 extra is $6 per month. Just drive by Dunki's 2 times a month rather than stop and you're covered.

Take Care

 

[chucker]

the word of mouth from friends/neighbors that deliver wood to them is the best seller!!

 

[CTYank]

About the first seller, the one who shorted you badly, do you have an attorney? You could tell him that you'd like him to make good on his fraudulent sale in [x] days or your attorney will take it up, and he can pay costs of collection also.

"Seasoned" wood merely perpetuates a scam. It's nothing that can be enforced, except I've heard that in one state it means 50% MC. On dry basis, that means that of a pound delivered, 1/2 is water. Big help, eh?
Unless you specify MC, don't waste your time on this; buy for a year ahead.

Oak (any variety) will take twice as long as other hardwoods to dry. Long known in the forest products industry. Plan on having oak sitting about drying for 2+ years. Stack all wood off ground, and cover with durable (not blue) tarps in rain.

You've probably surmised that now is the worst time to buy wood for this winter. This past March would have been enormously better. If you're going to buy again (bad idea), learn how to guesstimate the volume ON THE TRUCK, and take sample MC readings, again ON THE TRUCK so you can approve/cancel the transaction before it's on the ground. On contacting vendor, explain that he/she will NOT deliver from the truck until the load is checked for volume and MC. (Could have saved you hundreds, no?)

For now, scrounging of sticks and skids can go a long way, also enabling drying your "fresh-water driftwood" stacked next to your stove. Re-splitting the soggy stuff might work for you too.

For the future, to build up basic inventory quickly, you might go for delivery of tree-length logs. You'll appreciate having 60 cc /+ chainsaw to cut these. Search local loggers that sell cull logs.

 

[slowp]

Spent this past weekend filling the truck with scavengings from the recent snowstorm. Next year I'll be prepared, got myself a chainsaw and have been splitting and stacking it for next year. But just don't know what to do for the next few months - hate to pay the oil man!!

Ah, and I suggest you ignore the advice you will get to buy a teenie tiny saw. My friend calls it, The Secret of the Men. She says that we women are advised to get tiny saws. We find out that tiny saws are slow to run. It takes longer to cut wood with them. Longer cutting time = more work time = getting tired. So we then look up to the he men with their larger saws and think it must really be hard for them.

Actually, some of us figure out the secret and get saws with more power. Yes, they are heavier but we get used to them and are able to cut the same amount of firewood in a shorter time, which makes us happier.

Her husband chuckles when he hears this and says he likes women who can run big saws and cut firewood.

 

[momof2nutlings]

Thanks so much for all your tips and advice! Gave #1 scum one more call, we'll see what becomes of it, if not I'll call the CT DEP. Never knew that was an option! Thank you Swamp Yankee.

I got in touch with a few wood dealers, and I'm making trips out to check out their wood, armed with my maul and my moisture meter. And the ones I've talked to have welcomed me to do this - I'm hoping that's a good sign!!

And as for next year, if I don't think mine will be dry enough, I'm going to definitely buy early. This year I took some advice from a "knowledgeable" family member and waited. Lesson learned.

And I think I have a new addiction. :msp_biggrin: I've scrounged a huge stack of wood thus far (filled the back of the truck almost 20 times!) and, now that the soreness is wearing off, I feel like I've spent hours at the gym - and this is WAY more fun then fending off meatheads while trying to work out!!

Slowp - I had to laugh at your post!! My husband suggested I get a cute little 14" saw, and while it certainly was adorable, I'm not sure it's what I need. Instead I've commandeered his 20" and, for the smaller bits, bought myself a cheapie electric 16" that I do like better - mostly because I can still hear what trouble the kiddos are getting into while I'm using it!!

Thanks so much everyone, I'm really grateful for all the help.

 

[zogger]

Personally

Ah, and I suggest you ignore the advice you will get to buy a teenie tiny saw. My friend calls it, The Secret of the Men. She says that we women are advised to get tiny saws. We find out that tiny saws are slow to run. It takes longer to cut wood with them. Longer cutting time = more work time = getting tired. So we then look up to the he men with their larger saws and think it must really be hard for them.

Actually, some of us figure out the secret and get saws with more power. Yes, they are heavier but we get used to them and are able to cut the same amount of firewood in a shorter time, which makes us happier.

Her husband chuckles when he hears this and says he likes women who can run big saws and cut firewood.

Personally, I would never give a newbie any sort of advice to start out with a larger saw, that's just slap dumb retarded. RETARDED and would be bad advice. One, it ain't needed to do small quantities of firewood, two, larger saws are more dangerous and more expensive, they just are and you know it.

Heck, before this summer, i got the vast majority of all my wood cutting done with a 137 husky, a small homelite, and a few other cheap "teeny tiny" saws over the years. And now I am running a battery operated saw a lot. (which is really fun and surprisingly good at what it does)

I have larger saws now, but I absolutely don't need them either, except for storm damage. It makes doing felling and large bucking easier of course, but most home owners can get by with a smallish saw for the vast majority of what they might need to cut. Plus, easier starting and they ain't ridiculous fuel hogs like the medium and larger saws.

No one was talking down to the lady in this thread. I gave similar advice to some guy who needed wood fast a week or so ago, that fireman, a "male" human. She *has* wood, just a lot of it isn't dry enough yet and it needs to be real soon and she don't want to drop a ton more money on the situation.

It has NOTHING to do with any sexism or some notion that "women can't run equipment" or anything like that. Some can, some can't, depends on the individual human. My girlfriend is pretty tomboyish and we both share farm work (ya, it is fairly obvious you pro west coast folks look down on farmers and folks on the east coast in general rather consistently..no need to deny it either), but she can't start and run a gas chainsaw. Tried, can't do it, but can run the new batt saw, because of its design. She's 100 lbs soaking wet and has arthritis in her hands. Is it "sexist" to bow to reality and say something like that, that she can't drop start and run like a 440 or something? It's not because she is a woman, it's because she is a human who weighs 100 lbs, is granny aged, and has bad arthritis. She can operate the tractors here and does, and a few times the larger farm trucks. That she can do. She can't hand split like me, but can put up a nice stack. Heck, I only weigh 130! That's with my clothes and boots on on the cattle scale! Can I do the same crap some dude 25 years old and 250 lbs, heavy duty physical stuff? NOPE! And that most likely includes running some old cast iron monster antique saw with a ten foot bar on it, I *doubt* I could run one past a few cuts, if that. Can I do *some* of what a younger guy twice my size can do? YEP! Reality is freaking reality.

 

[slowp]

Personally, I would never give a newbie any sort of advice to start out with a larger saw, that's just slap dumb retarded. RETARDED and would be bad advice. One, it ain't needed to do small quantities of firewood, two, larger saws are more dangerous and more expensive, they just are and you know it.

Heck, before this summer, i got the vast majority of all my wood cutting done with a 137 husky, a small homelite, and a few other cheap "teeny tiny" saws over the years. And now I am running a battery operated saw a lot. (which is really fun and surprisingly good at what it does)

I have larger saws now, but I absolutely don't need them either, except for storm damage. It makes doing felling and large bucking easier of course, but most home owners can get by with a smallish saw for the vast majority of what they might need to cut. Plus, easier starting and they ain't ridiculous fuel hogs like the medium and larger saws.

No one was talking down to the lady in this thread. I gave similar advice to some guy who needed wood fast a week or so ago, that fireman, a "male" human. She *has* wood, just a lot of it isn't dry enough yet and it needs to be real soon and she don't want to drop a ton more money on the situation.

It has NOTHING to do with any sexism or some notion that "women can't run equipment" or anything like that. Some can, some can't, depends on the individual human. My girlfriend is pretty tomboyish and we both share farm work (ya, it is fairly obvious you pro west coast folks look down on farmers and folks on the east coast in general rather consistently..no need to deny it either), but she can't start and run a gas chainsaw. Tried, can't do it, but can run the new batt saw, because of its design. She's 100 lbs soaking wet and has arthritis in her hands. Is it "sexist" to bow to reality and say something like that, that she can't drop start and run like a 440 or something? It's not because she is a woman, it's because she is a human who weighs 100 lbs, is granny aged, and has bad arthritis. She can operate the tractors here and does, and a few times the larger farm trucks. That she can do. She can't hand split like me, but can put up a nice stack. Heck, I only weigh 130! That's with my clothes and boots on on the cattle scale! Can I do the same crap some dude 25 years old and 250 lbs, heavy duty physical stuff? NOPE! And that most likely includes running some old cast iron monster antique saw with a ten foot bar on it, I *doubt* I could run one past a few cuts, if that. Can I do *some* of what a younger guy twice my size can do? YEP! Reality is freaking reality.

My friend IS a grandma. I am grandma aged. I really learned to run a saw on a thinning crew. The saw I used then weighed the same, or more than my 440. And I do think it is sometimes safer to have more power available, plus a sharp chain. Retarded? I think not, but my sister always called me that.

Oh, we have plastic saws available now. Don't need to mess with the cast iron ones.

 

[zogger]

My friend IS a grandma. I am grandma aged. I really learned to run a saw on a thinning crew. The saw I used then weighed the same, or more than my 440. And I do think it is sometimes safer to have more power available, plus a sharp chain. Retarded? I think not, but my sister always called me that.

Oh, we have plastic saws available now. Don't need to mess with the cast iron ones.

You're just slap nuts, and always ragging on people all the time. No one on this thread was sexist, or gave bad advice to the new person here, or treated them bad, or was condescening or anything, you look up and down the thread people offered sincere honest advice, and tried to help answeer her multiple problems, how to find a good firewood seller and now what to do with winter and cold weather heating season being here, and offer some options. And you weren't good natured razzing like goes on here, either, you are serious about all that stuff you posted, insulted everyone here.

Fine, believe what ya want, but there's no sexism on this thread outside of what you posted.

You got a six ton chip on your shoulder, and it ain't a woodchip!

You can have the last word, knock yourself out, but I wash my hands of dealing with your hallucinations from here on out, seen it on too many other threads. There's a consistent pattern that has emerged. There's too many nice folks here, I personally don't need your input. Not speaking for anyone else, just me, but you posted openly to the thread and insulted every guy here, for no reason whatsoever. All I did was post where maybe she could scrounge some dry wood, and might be able to use her near green wood soon, and that's it. I have absolutely no idea where you came up with all that stuff you said, but it sure was unwarranted and undeserved to anyone on this thread, and that included me, and I ain't shy. I don't see any post where it might have applied or been accurate.

In short, you might have issues elsewhere with what you describe, but no one here said anything about any of that, or was rude to the person, or insinuated she couldn't do this or that, or gave them bad advice, it was all good advice, and polite, and non sexist. There wasn't any condescension going on, none.

I've spoken my piece, I don't argue in real life or on the net much, I don't like it, there's little need for it. I'm off this thread, the poor lady didn't need this junk on her thread, and I don't want to make it any worse, but I couldn't let your rank rude statements pass either. Just freekin rude. Rude, and slap wrong.

 

[indiansprings]

I've been in the wood selling business a long time, to be perfectly honest it's tough to find a good honest firewood seller. It is easy business for the crooks and thieves to scam people, here in my state there is almost no regulation of the industry. We've built our reputation by exceeding customers expectations, we offer stacking for 10.00 a cord, I almost insist we do it for the first time customer (which I won't be taking anymore this year) so they can see we deliver about 10% more than the legal definition. If you have a doubt to the amount of wood delivered do not pay until it is stacked, offer to pay extra to stack it, if it is short only pay for what was delivered or don't pay at all until it is delivered in full. Never wait until the last minute to order your wood, order it in Feb/Mar give it time to dry, stack it/cover it and when heating time comes you'll be ready. Most good wood sellers are so busy they don't need a lot of new customers, word of mouth is my only advertisement. There is a local hack, that always starts out below market, delivers people crap, the way he stacks he cheats the heck out of people, after he has ripped folks off a time or two, here they come wanting us to deliver. Once you find a good one stay with him, let him know how you appreciate his service, tip the guy five bucks every once in a while. I can tell you my boys, will prioritize the folks who give them a little sack of cookies, a coke and actually thank them. The good sellers seldom can deliver immediately, they are always behind, many times it is worth the wait, there is a reason they are busy. I'd hold the first guys feet to the fire, no excuse for ripping someone off. If we stack it, I paint a line on the stack and tell them to call for more when they get to the line, that way we'll be sure they don't run out. We're slammed for the year, no more customers, no more orders for now.

 

[banshee67]

Youve got a PNW sized chip on your shoulder

fixed :msp_smile:

 

[Steve NW WI]

Zogger, I suggest you back off of Slowp a bit.

I find nothing in her post sexist, you just seem to have inferred that somehow. What she's saying is not false or wrong in any way. Bigger saws do the same work in less time, unless you're just cutting kindling. While she mentions her MS-440, you don't even need to go that big to get a lot better than the little 35cc machines, 50-60 ccs will cut a lot more wood faster and with less exertion on the user's part over the course of a day. The pro models have compression release that make them easy for "most" users to start.

The notion that bigger saws are less safe doesn't hold water with me either. My little 40cc saw will bite just as bad as my big saws will, and letting people think that a smaller saw is safer is a huge disservice, this type of thinking winds a whole bunch of homeowners in the ER every year. A healthy respect for what any size saw can do, is required for anyone picking up a saw.

I apologize to the original poster for this derailment, but when someone lays out a personal attack (reference: slap nuts and retarded comments) to another poster who is giving advice, it's flat wrong and needs correcting. If you don't agree with the post, argue facts and ideas all day long, calling into question their sanity, intelligence, etc. does no good, and makes you look bad.

 

[Cedar Ed]

De-comp

I do not usually use the decompression valve button.Seems to flood the saw to me.Anyone have good results starting with those ? Don't seem too necessary.

 

[EXCALIBER]

I find nothing in her post sexist, you just seem to have inferred that somehow. What she's saying is not false or wrong in any way. Bigger saws do the same work in less time, unless you're just cutting kindling. While she mentions her MS-440, you don't even need to go that big to get a lot better than the little 35cc machines, 50-60 ccs will cut a lot more wood faster and with less exertion on the user's part over the course of a day. The pro models have compression release that make them easy for "most" users to start.



The notion that bigger saws are less safe doesn't hold water with me either. My little 40cc saw will bite just as bad as my big saws will, and letting people think that a smaller saw is safer is a huge disservice, this type of thinking winds a whole bunch of homeowners in the ER every year. A healthy respect for what any size saw can do, is required for anyone picking up a saw.

I would agree with your first statement; I don't see anything sexist and I suggest to anyone getting a firewood saw that will see yearly use, cutting more than a cord each year, to start with 50cc, but preferably 55cc saw. My first saw was a Husqvarna 55 Rancher, it has cut a lot of wood, and it still cuts great today more than 12 years later.

Now I would partially agree to your second statement; on any saw, power tool, lawnmower, you name it needs and demands respect. To say a chainsaw is not dangerous no matter what the size would be a lie. I would have to disagree with the rest of the statement you made saying larger saws are not any more dangerous to use than smaller ones. For example my first saw, the 55 rancher, (55cc saw) when bucking a tree that was lets say elevated like with a log jack, sometimes the rounds that got cut off would pinch the bar and chain. Not a big problem it would just stall the saw and I would move the round that I had just cut, eliminating the pinched bar and chain. Now enter my new saw I bought last year, Dolmar 7900 (79cc saw) same situation. When the rounds that I cut fall off and pinch the bar and chain, instead of the saw just stopping and stalling out, it has enough torque to throw me and the saw backwards with tremendous force, like 6 feet back. I am no monster but am not little either, 6'1" and 215 on a light day. Also a bigger saw can and will kickback with way more force and speed than a smaller saw will do.

I always advise anyone buying a saw to go down and try them out, see how they feel to you. To give my 80cc saw to an "average" 120-150 lb woman would be asking for trouble. The bottom line is each person is different from gender, to strength, to how in shape they are, their height, their ability to safely run equipment, and the list goes on and on. So find out generally what sized saw is needed for the work load you are expecting to put on it, then try them out. Find one that fits the job and you, not too big or too small. Only you can find the right one as we are all different. If you are comfortable with it, and it is in the realm for size of getting the job done, buy it or better yet rent a good used one or try someone elses out for a weekend if possible. This will be a better judge of if it is too heavy or not enough power, ect.

Sorry if this hijacked the thread. Like a lot of the people have mentioned once you find the right firewood person, it never hurts to do a little something extra for them. A small tip, cookies, ect as they will remember it. Lets say you need more wood asap because you used more than you thought and forgot to order more, or a bad storm heading in and you want to be sure you have enough, they will remember you and say "hey she/he was very nice person and appreciates my hard work so I will go out of my way to help them out". So they may make a special delivery or a sooner delivery to you than say someone else who does nothing extra.

 

[Carl Anderson]

Hi, I live in eastern CT and have purchased wood in the past but hopefully won't have to anymore. Should have enough for this year and plenty from Irene and the snowstorm to supply me for the next two years. I may even sell some if I end up with more than 2 years' supply but that will be next year or the year after. If I do sell I will definitely give an honest cord and a little extra just to be sure.

There is one guy my dad and I have bought from a few times over the years. His wood is seasoned ok, could be a tad drier but wasn't green either and it's good hardwood, oak and maple mostly. His cords used to be a little extra and he used to hand stack the wood in his dump truck. He doesn't hand stack anymore and his cords were full cords but not extra the last time I bought from him. If you still need someone private message me and I'll give you his name and number. Hopefully he is still selling honest seasoned cords.

I too have found that most sellers are a little short of a full cord but not usually by that much. One guy I found on CL was just doing it one year to make extra money and actually gave me more than a cord of all hardwood and for a good price and the wood was pretty well seasoned. He had a full size pickup truck with short wooden sides above the regular bed sides so he could easily heap it up a little and made two trips for one full cord. Another guy was only 3/4 of a cord but I was not surprised since his price was only 3/4 of what most guys were asking for a cord. The wood was good so I figured no foul. Still he should have delivered a cord since that was what he was advertising. It was enough for me to finish the year and cost me less so I didn't care but I wouldn't buy from him again unless he was still that much cheaper and I didn't need a full cord.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Ex, big saws will push harder if you get them in the wrong spot, I'm not disputing that. BUT, small saws can and will do the same in the right conditions. In your example, the pinch angle is everything, just enough to catch the chain, but not enough to grab and hold the bar. The only ways to prevent this are training and/or experience. I am NOT calling your cutting skills into question, it's gonna happen to everyone sooner or later, but having the knowledge that it can happen, and being prepared for the possibility with a solid hold on the saw and keeping your body out of the path of the saw's travel (something I'm HORRIBLE at, due to being left-handed, but I'm always working to force myself to cut "normally").

I do wanna run your 79 - it's gotta be badder than your average one to make a guy do a two step backwards!

 

[EXCALIBER]

Well it packs one heck of a wallop, and seems to be holding up this being its second year of cutting. This year I was cutting at a lake by the house helping the fish and game clean up trees and they had little stihl saws and were trying to steal my saw after the first 4 hours lol. I also picked up two Makita 6400's but have not cut any with them yet. Putting them back together today actually. Probably going to sell one and big bore the other don't know if I want another 79cc or 85cc. Heck maybe sell both and buy a Husqvarna 3120, I do need a bigger saw. They were home depot saws. Like I said I would not give a big saw to a 50lb kid or a 100lb woman. Even if they were holding on tight it may just break their wrists or arm when it kicks back, or simply overpower them forcing them to let go. Seen similar things on our boat when getting a woman or kids up on skis, full throttle will yank the rope right out of their hands. Saws like everything else need to be matched to the user.

 

[stihl362]

ask for a sample

why not ask if you could buy a very small amount then if it is great you get more

 

[George G]

I would get the Dept of Consumer Protection involved.
Heres a link, gives a phone number at the bottom.
DCP: How to Buy Firewood

 

[Arbonaut]

If I was in the Northeast and had to spend that dough on firewood guys that screwed up, I'd buy anthracite. (If your system will burn it). I buy it here through some of the Amish channels for $225/ton in 50# bags. I rarely use it except it's an investment and a backup-- but whoa the heat and clean. Smells like someone making taffy burnin' some dinosaur. Have to be cheaper that close to PA.

Those guys are making me mad treating someone that way.

 

[stihl362]

I sell firewood and i have noticed that almost anyone who buys firewood is somewhat skeptical when i post on Craigslist unless i post a very low price such as a weekend special or something like that. Yes i understand that they do not know me at all but this is generally because of many dishonest sellers on Craigslist in it for the short run. I sell by the road in small stacks around 20 pieces or so. I also have a small sign for half cords and full cords. I have gotten one complaint from one customer in the 7 years i have been selling. This man claimed that my wood had creosote and caused his stove to become black from burning my wood. He found my ad on CL. When the man purchased the wood i explained to him that it was wet due to the recent snow melting. I told him it should be put in a dry location for a couple days. The wood i sold him was from my stacks down by the road and therefore was not covered. He wanted a small amount so i only gave him 3 stacks. This guy went along and posted a bad ad on craigslist about me and my business and refused to return emails and phone calls. I generally do not meet my customers that buy my stacks but i sell in a well off town that people only buy wood for the looks which explains why they dont buy large quantities too often. I got out of the whole experience that many buyers are uneducated about wood and yes i understand that there are dishonest sellers out there but at least in my area most people are very uneducated about firewood and any manual labor related work. I believe people should become more educated on firewood and what it takes to produce burnable wood if they do not want to get ripped off.