How to save a hollow trunk?

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BillyB

ArboristSite Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
73
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19
Location
Small Woods NE of St. Paul, MN
I'd really like to save the remaining trunk of this mature red oak tree since it occupies an important location in front of my home.

The tree previously had a double leader split at the base. The left trunk broke on it's own a decade or more ago. A broken stump about 4 or 5' high was left projecting upward from the cut face you now see. The bark had fallen off so I recently decided to cut it off where it met the remaining bark collar. Lo and behold I exposed a cavity in doing so.
  • Did I do the right thing or did I blunder?
  • Is there anything that can be done now to support or protect the remaining trunk so as to extend it's life?
It's not really endangering anything beneath. Though the tree is visually obvious, traffic beneath it is scarce and it leans away from the house.

Hollow Trunk.jpg
 
..anything that can be done now to support or protect the remaining trunk so as to extend it's life?

Extend life , no.

Support or protect trunk, nothing cost effective.

However, just for grins, ...........the engineering side of me says yes to support. Probably DIY only. Do you have a welder or can you weld?
Shove a piece of 2"or 3" 1/4" wall square tubing or pipe up the hollow space as far as you can. Weld a nice big gusset to it in the space shown.
Calculate the weight of the tree and resultant moment arm when the leaves are rain soaked and there is a typical worst case wind gust in your area.
See if that number is over 100,000 in pounds. If over 100K, see if bigger than 3" tubing will fit.
If under 100k in-#, now cast a 1000 # concrete block about 8 ft away and bolt another 3" tube to that.

If you hired me to do that, no guarantees, and cost in the neighborhood of $3k <G> $4k if the concrete block buried.

Sounds extreme? Cut'er down and replant. Or maybe 3 big 1/2" galvanized wire guy ropes to old car wheels buried 6 ft down.
 
with only one picture im still not yet convinced this tree is toast and as you claim low target value means im more supportive of its retention..,, I've seen many big trees with cavity s & hollows stand solid for long time.


http://safetrees.com/TrainingPDFs/RiskAssessmentMathDec2013.pdf

"The t/R ratio is based on many years of study of over 1200 tree failures of broad leaved and coniferous trees (Mattheck & Breloer, 2003). This ratio is based on a 70:30 rule. The study found that when most trees achieved a decay linear measurement of greater than 70% (i.e. less than 30% sound wood) the tree had a high likelihood of failure. The theory and this study can be read in more detail in the book ‘The Body Language of Trees’, 2003 by Claus Mattheck and Helge Breloer"



You could if $ cost not an issue have the tree checked with Picuc Sonic Tomograph so best go find a company that can do this in your part of US they may condemn tree or may give you reason to retain it

sonic1.png sonic6.png
 
You could if $ cost not an issue have the tree checked with Picuc Sonic Tomograph so best go find a company that can do this in your part of US they may condemn tree or may give you reason to retain it

Thanks Derwoodi! Hope lives. :)

Question: So, if I have someone out who does Picuc Sonic Tomograph and they determine that 30% or greater trunk mass remains, is there anything they might do to support the tree in any way or just tell me I don't need to remove it yet?
 
I'd really like to save the remaining trunk of this mature red oak tree since it occupies an important location in front of my home.

The tree previously had a double leader split at the base. The left trunk broke on it's own a decade or more ago. A broken stump about 4 or 5' high was left projecting upward from the cut face you now see. The bark had fallen off so I recently decided to cut it off where it met the remaining bark collar. Lo and behold I exposed a cavity in doing so.
  • Did I do the right thing or did I blunder?
  • Is there anything that can be done now to support or protect the remaining trunk so as to extend it's life?
It's not really endangering anything beneath. Though the tree is visually obvious, traffic beneath it is scarce and it leans away from the house.

View attachment 618553
There is nothing you can do except leave it be.If your fortunate some of the branch bark collar may heal around some of wood that was just cut.You can see around the outside how the tree started to heal from previous injury with the way the branch bark collar is growing around the old cut on the left side at the bulge at around 9 o clock. You can't do nothing much with that tree.In the old days,an Arborist would fill the cavity with cement,which creates more rot and moisture,and is no longer done.Just don't build under it,or park your car under it.You will be surprised how long that tree will survive ,even with the cavity,as long as the cambium is healthy,and you have a good root system.If the tree is a safety factor,like a structure, or driveway, or an area that has kids and people underneath frequently,then you should remove.Have a tree company come by and look it over.
 
In the old days,an Arborist would fill the cavity with cement
Yes Rick, I was specifically thinking of cement but I guess the profession has put that idea to rest. Now, I know. Thanks!

There is nothing you can do except leave it be.If your fortunate some of the branch bark collar may heal around some of wood that was just cut.
I had trimmed the dead stump to the bark line in the hope that it would help the bark collar heal around some of the wood. Perhaps, I'm overly optimistic though because it seem like a lot of area to cover and I'm sure the tree, like yours truly, heals much more slowly than it once did. I can take your advice and do nothing. It's one thing I'm pretty good at.
 
Yes Rick, I was specifically thinking of cement but I guess the profession has put that idea to rest. Now, I know. Thanks!


I had trimmed the dead stump to the bark line in the hope that it would help the bark collar heal around some of the wood. Perhaps, I'm overly optimistic though because it seem like a lot of area to cover and I'm sure the tree, like yours truly, heals much more slowly than it once did. I can take your advice and do nothing. It's one thing I'm pretty good at.
I bet you Billy,the tree be there for along time.Though there is no picture of the crown or the upper part,outside of the cavity,the way that the branch bark collar is trying to cover the old scar it seems relatively healthy.I hope it gives you years of shade. Have a Merry Christmas and a good N.Y.
 
There is nowhere near as much money in saving trees as ppl so science has not figured out how to stop rot of the dead structural wood w/o damaging rhe live outer layers.

If it were a deck (with no live parts) we'd all run out and seal it so it did not rot. Would anyone care about the moisture in the deck wood already? Nope, they'd pick a dry day and go out with some sealant.

Devising a way to keep new water from getting in there may help.

Then figure out how dank and damp it is in that cavity. I do have concerns about sealing in moisture.
 
Thanks Derwoodi! Hope lives. :)

Question: So, if I have someone out who does Picuc Sonic Tomograph and they determine that 30% or greater trunk mass remains, is there anything they might do to support the tree in any way or just tell me I don't need to remove it yet?


Yes once you determined tree preservation worthy and possible hazard acceptable there are many methods of tree support & propping. Combined this with root anchoring and some considered upper canopy weight reduction work remedy's abound perhaps if you can take a few more pictures showing the trees location structure and form it will help us..

Oh note dont go filling that void with anything just yet it often is detrimental to trees natural methods of decay control CODIT

And for sure there will be US tree consultancy firm that can provide the inspection ideas and solution's its just cost $$..

Here company page example from down under

http://www.enspec.com/Consultancy/TreePropping.aspx

but something as simple as this may be much cheaper and DIY
tree_prop.jpg
 
This was done before I was born. Dad said he was little when pa did that. He is in his mid 70's. It was a tight fit when I was young but has separated and isn't doing much now. It did prevent rotting all the years it fit tightly.




Now it's developed some serious looking splitting. So it will either fall or be taken down soon. Will be a sad day for sure!
 
Trunk rot is the result of a fungal growth, which first exhibits its presence through yellowing or wilted leaves and stunted growth rates, eventually showing fruiting bodies on the exterior of the trunk. When rot has overtaken a tree trunk, you have two basic choices how to proceed: attempt to save the tree, or let it go and purge the disease from the area. The choice you make depends on the severity of damage. It is very difficult to effectively treat rot, and nearly impossible once it has begun to fruit. The majority of treatments focus on helping the tree to regain strength during the early stages of infestation, rather than eliminating the disease. As with most things, prevention is the best medicine. Mulch should be level around the tree trunk rather than piled around it and young trees should have tree guards to protect their trunk from injury and undo moisture from weeds and debris. Treat injuries quickly as they are invitations for fungus to attack.

PROLONGING LIFE
Trees that have had little visible damage may be saved, or at least have their lives extended. Use a trowel to dig out any soil or mulch from around the root crown to eliminate excess moisture.

2
Check the tree for anything that may contribute extra stress, such as insect infestations or poor drainage. Eliminate any areas of concern.

3
Fertilize with a high-phosphorous fertilizer to promote root growth. A fertilizer with the mixture 0-20-0 or 0-46-0 is best. Apply this by mixing it into the drip-line soil in March and October at a rate of 3 to 5 pounds for each inch of trunk diameter.


4
Prune any dead branches or branches with major injuries, as these areas take up extra energy the tree needs to divert to fighting the fungus. Also remove any small branches and tiny offshoots, called suckers, from the lower trunk area.

REMOVING THE OFFENDER

If the fungus has begun to fruit on the outside of the trunk, removal is the safest option. Trees showing extensive rot are susceptible to falling and uprooting, making them a danger. Small trees can be removed with a saw or ax at home, while large ones should be handled by an arborist. In all cases, use a drill with a large bit to break down and remove as much of the trunk and root system as possible. Dispose of all tree parts to avoid transferring the infection.

2
Sterilize the area to remove any leftover fungus and bacteria. Plastic sheets provide a cost-effective and natural way to kill unwanted microbes. In late spring or early summer, till the area well, then cover it with 2-mil plastic sheets. Stretch it tightly and either bury the edges or secure them with bricks. Allow this to sit for 8 to 10 weeks, then remove the plastic.

3
Plant a new tree, taking into account the best tree for the given environment. Practice preventative measures for the new tree, including level mulch, excellent drainage and trunk shields. SFGATE


GUESS WHAT I FOUND?

2 and one half billion news articles about lawsuits involving huge bucks for injuries due to rotted trees falling on innocent, unsuspecting people.
 
If it were a deck (with no live parts) we'd all run out and seal it so it did not rot.

Many people are deciding not to seal their decks anymore but apply a penetrating oil instead. The oil obviously is meant to keep the wood from drying out but repel water at the cellular level as well. I'm told that some organic oils can cure hard over time thereby improving the strength of the lumber. I wonder if you've hit on something here and whether such an oil might serve as an effective preservative without locking water in and encouraging rot as others have warned.

Here is the oil I'm using on my deck: https://www.odiesoil.com/
 

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