Hultz Clone or Used Stihl?

[bcar]

Hey All,

first thread here... I'm in the market for a big saw (currently have a MS290) for felling larger trees around my acreage, and I have a 30" dia walnut that I'd like to take down and chainsaw mill it. Am I going to be better off picking up a new Hultz/Fermertec 660 or a used Stihl 660/661? I just cant quite get to a point where I can justify a new 500 or 661 since I typically have such little use for a saw of that size. Thanks for any advice.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Well, the way I see things- you will get two camps of answer-
A: STAY AWAY from the Hultz/Farmertec copycat saws- get OEM Stihl, like a secondhand 066/660.
B: Get a Hultz/Farmertec..... they are great.

Personally I would go with option A:, but I know my way around basic saw repair and rebuilding.
If I was looking to just fell and buck 30" Walnut trees, the 066 might be enough- but milling one is a different kettle of fish and that might not be "enough" saw to be practical for the job- but then I don't mill 30" logs of any kind!

 

[lone wolf]

OEM Stihl is the smart way to go don't go the China crap route! Thank me later.

 

[bcar]

OEM would be my preferred route, I've learned pretty quickly that I'm a brand snob when it comes to Stihl. I just felt like I should probably at least give these imports a look with all the good reviews they seem to be getting. We've even got a commercial company here in Iowa starting to use the clones over Stihl.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

OEM buy quality.

We need to stop funding the Chinese clone market...it's eventually the end of quality saws. Look at the American made quality tool market. Being taken over by cheap trash tools. Why? Because people don't put value on quality, only price.

 

[lone wolf]

OEM would be my preferred route, I've learned pretty quickly that I'm a brand snob when it comes to Stihl. I just felt like I should probably at least give these imports a look with all the good reviews they seem to be getting. We've even got a commercial company here in Iowa starting to use the clones over Stihl.

Dont get talked into the China crap ,Stihl is best.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

I just felt like I should probably at least give these imports a look with all the good reviews they seem to be getting. We've even got a commercial company here in Iowa starting to use the clones over Stihl.

Good reviews are easy to type and are like word of mouth advertising- nobody pays much attention to the good chatter, but listens intently to the bad stuff and pass that on more readily.
When it comes to these cheaply copied saws, those that like them sing their praises heavily at every avenue they can find - but often neglect to add or gloss over the fact some of the pretty important parts were swapped out for OEM parts, bits missing from kits, parts not quite fitting, not quite lining up, screws and bolts that do not grab into cases just as well as the OEM ones, early bearing failures, crank failures.......
For casual use now and then when a big saw is needed- I can see the appeal to your bank balance- for milling 30" Walnut boards- I can see burned out cheap copy saws in your close future.

As for the company using cheap copies- I imagine that comes down to employer providing tooling and being well sick of employees trashing genuine saws because they don't own them, the boss will fix/repair, so who gives a flying fork how we treat them?
Put those employees on contract and pay a dividend to supply/maintain their own tooling and I bet they quality steps back up to OEM and the wreckage comes way down.

 

[Canyon Angler]

Well, the way I see things- you will get two camps of answer-
A: STAY AWAY from the Hultz/Farmertec copycat saws- get OEM Stihl, like a secondhand 066/660.
B: Get a Hultz/Farmertec..... they are great.

C. Get one from a builder who starts with a China kit and then uses OEM or good AM parts for the critical parts. I found a 660 on ebay put together by a guy who started with mostly Chinese parts, then used good AM and OEM parts (Taiwan crank from Bailey's, Meteor piston and I think cylinder, OEM bearings and brake parts, Caber rings, etc.) and kinda made a Frankensaw. Once it was broken in, I opened up the muffler and fattened it up and it runs like a raped ape. Not sure I'd want to use it for milling, but it's done everything I've wanted it to do.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

C. Get one from a builder who starts with a China kit and then uses OEM or good AM parts for the critical parts. I found a 660 on ebay put together by a guy who started with mostly Chinese parts, then used good AM and OEM parts (Taiwan crank from Bailey's, Meteor piston and I think cylinder, OEM bearings and brake parts, Caber rings, etc.) and kinda made a Frankensaw. Once it was broken in, I opened up the muffler and fattened it up and it runs like a raped ape. Not sure I'd want to use it for milling, but it's done everything I've wanted it to do.

Yep, agreed- if you replace all the major componentry with much better quality- there is not much wrong with the cosmetic stuff. But then you are also getting into a price bracket of a topend cooked 066/660 that you buy a new Meteor top end for, sure, the paint on the cases might be scuffed up, plastics a bit dull- but it will still cut wood.
Don't get me wrong- a lot of my saws have aftermarket cosmetics, plastics, mufflers, handles etc and I sink bars into some pretty big logs- but I don't mill and I don't really use my saws commercially.
Plus geographics, lack of population and shipping costs make OEM parts WAY expensive here- I not long ago paid NZ$30 or just over for a OEM clutch needle bearing for an 066 and slightly over NZ$50 for a set of OEM rings for the same saw!

 

[bcar]

Luckily I didn't need convinced to stick with Stihl, so all of your responses make my decision here pretty easy... Now to work back to trying to justifying a new saw instead of used lol.

Am I crazy for wanting to chainsaw mill a tree this big? There would be a convenience factor to CSM since I'm not set up very well to load and transport logs of this size. But I know a lot of wood gets wasted vs. a band saw, and the time to get everything cut would be much higher. Every time I think about doing this project myself with a CSM I feel a few more chest hairs sprout though.

 

[Canyon Angler]

Another option would be to get somebody with a bandsaw mill to come to you and cut up your saw log. I think Wood Mizer has a website where you can link up with local mill owners. What with the value of walnut, I'm not sure I'd want to "learn" on one, and I definitely wouldn't like how much pretty wood got converted into toxic sawdust by using a CSM. (Don't let horses anywhere near that juglone crap.)

 

[RED-85-Z51]

Im running a G660 with a 36" and a G372xp with a 25" and both have performed admirably. The G372xp was 198.14 shipped...

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[Stihl99]

farmertec and Stihl should not be used in the same sentence.
farmertec is a china knock off copying Stihl's R&D, engineered designs with cheap parts
Also farmertec is not a manufacturer, they purchase all these saw parts from many different cloning companies in china, then they hire a shop to assemble the knock off saw for them.

 

[tylerbeach3]

Not sure if this is where to put this: my g660 sheared the crankshaft on the clutch side today! I’ve never heard this on a saw. I was milling 33” oak and all the sudden... is it worth getting oem stihl crankshaft and repairing the saw or?

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

Not sure if this is where to put this: my g660 sheared the crankshaft on the clutch side today! I’ve never heard this on a saw. I was milling 33” oak and all the sudden... is it worth getting oem stihl crankshaft and repairing the saw or?

You'll just find the next weak link.

Buy a quality OEM saw.

 

[tylerbeach3]

You'll just find the next weak link.

Buy a quality OEM saw.

Good advice. I own many quality saws. I wanted this cheapy for hard milling knowing I would need to repair. Just didn’t think it would be that major of a failure.

 

[Nex]

As I see it there's two sides to this (besides the ones mentioned)

Stihl/OEM is certainly the "safe" bet - and if you get a new one you get warranties etc.
BUT
You can get ~4 farmertec saws for the same price. Now, will one OEM-saw outlast 4 farmertec saws? I really don't know - it might, but it seems unlikely, especially considering you'll have lots and lots of parts.

Also, if you get a kit you get the fun and experience building it - and can also give critical parts a smidge of love and finish.

So to sum up my personal view; if you're in to saws and twostrokes in general, and the main purpose is private-use; get a few kit-saws and be prepared to tinker and have fun with them.
If you on the other hand want a fire-and-forget type of experience, and perhaps use the saws in a business: get an original saw of a quality brand.

Personally I own both Stihls, Huskys J-reds and Farmertecs, and so far the Farmertecs hold up really well.

 

[RED-85-Z51]

Not sure if this is where to put this: my g660 sheared the crankshaft on the clutch side today! I’ve never heard this on a saw. I was milling 33” oak and all the sudden... is it worth getting oem stihl crankshaft and repairing the saw or?

I've seen Echo, stihl, husqvarna...shear off cranks, usually due to striking something, incorrect clutch removal/install, or running too tight of chain...

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[tylerbeach3]

I've seen Echo, stihl, husqvarna...shear off cranks, usually due to striking something, incorrect clutch removal/install, or running too tight of chain...

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Interesting. I thought I hit metal at first, there is some iron-stain on this oak. I pulled the clutch cover and the saw fell apart. Chain is fine.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

I've seen Echo, stihl, husqvarna...shear off cranks, usually due to striking something, incorrect clutch removal/install, or running too tight of chain...

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

And I have seen large cylinder displacement Stihl and Partner saws do it- but always in 14"bladed concrete saws.
Sink a diamond blade full depth in 20-25mpa concrete, saw at WOT and bind the blade- you will only do so so many times before the crank shears off the PTO side.
The thing is, how many times could you do so with an OEM crank before it sheared- versus how many times you could do so with a cheap copycat crank before it let go?