Humboldt vs. Conventional

[Westboastfaller]

That absolutely is an answer. I use the humboldt style pretty much every time the tree is on a hill side. Look at the side view of the stump, will get the most useful amount of saw log that way. But as I've said over and over, it isn't an either or. It depends on the situation. It's not some kind of religion as it seems to be for you, its a tool of which I have an understanding to use when it makes sense.

The other reason I will use a humboldt is with logs that have taps in them. Want a nice straight cut again to maximize the saw log.

Just often other priorities drive me to other ways to put the tree down. So, yet again I understand the approach where it works for me, not stuck on some kind of greater purpose based on god only knows what. So in fact I am the one who has posted a legitimate reason actually for both. Not you. Back in the guts of the popcorn popping I posted how at times building a hinge from the root flare wood makes sense. So with all your "experience" seems like I'm the one who has the band width to actually pick and choose a method that fits. And to be complete, I do that usually at the suggestion of a log buyer. You not me are the single minded person with so far from what I see no understanding of the other approaches. And yet again insults and the typical BS from your conversational approach continues. And yet again I'm the one who is open to conversation and new concepts with out some how being pride hurt because of where it comes. Not you.

You must be certified with your state and I did mean in felling.

It's all good Pard. I was just tak'n the piss out of ya more than anything.

Yes I knew that .haha.
"Taking a piss "
So British Brother, so British.

 

[pdqdl]

Use wedges much?

He wore out the old ones.
Besides, isn't it in good form to put your best equipment up front in an online video?

 

[weimedog]

I noticed in an earlier picture that one of the stump cuts was featuring that god-awful Game-of-logging style of tall, super wide open face. Isn't that reducing the amount of wood available for a mill to use, in addition to complicating the logs staying on the log trailer bunks?

I never could figure out a reason for making that face cut. Oops. That's off topic. We got a whole other thread that beats on the GOL methods.

It was, but most was in the root flare and that "flare" goes up around 4 ft. If you shot a line up it would be right about the the side of the tree. Just how they are made. It really doesn't effect the amount in fact added some. One of those things, either cut higher and "Humboldt" or do that. Buyer said do that. SO I do as I'm told in those cases. I got quite a lot out of those and they didn't trim those at the mill either.

 

[pdqdl]

That's what counts: make the customer happy.

 

[weimedog]

You must be certified with your state and I did mean in felling.

True. Certainly to work in State Lands.

This from the "state " site for those who want more information:

http://www.newyorkloggertraining.org/
A cut out of that program.
To become certified, applicants must successfully complete training in the three (3) core areas mentioned earlier:

1. Environmental Concerns: This requirement is met by completing the NYLT Forest Ecology & Silviculture workshop. Offered in each NYLT region, usually in the fall or spring as necessary. Contact the Regional Chair to find the next workshop in your area ($25 administrative fee required for credit).
2. Chainsaw Operation, Safety, & Productivity: This requirement is met by completing the Game of Logging™ Level 1. Most NYLT Regions host a number of these workshops during the fall and spring. In addition, other organizations such as Catskill Forest Association, W.J. Cox, and others may also schedule the course. If taking a course not hosted by NYLT, participants are responsible for sending a copy of their course certificate to the NYLT office in order to receive credit ($25 administrative fee required for credit).
3. Adult First Aid & CPR: NYLT recognizes American Red Cross, American Heart Association, or National Safety Council certification as being valid for this requirement. Most NYLT Regions conduct these courses throughout the year. An individual may also obtain credit by attending standard First Aid or CPR classes sponsored by other organizations in their communities. If taking a course not hosted by NYLT, participants are responsible for sending a copy of their course certificate to the NYLT office in order to receive credit.

 

[pdqdl]

What a money grab.

Notice that they don't mention certifications from ISA nor any other national organization for that safety & chainsaw "certification". Except GOL, of course.

 

[weimedog]

What a money grab.

Notice that they don't mention certifications from ISA nor any other national organization for that safety & chainsaw "certification". Except GOL, of course.

GOL is one I believe, not sure it's the ONLY one though. Prolly be an interesting read to see if other programs fit the bill. NYS is about money grabs. Everything from now a Boat "certification" to that. Have a wallet full of these goofy cert cards.

 

[weimedog]

Use wedges much?

Sometimes , sometimes not. Prolly like many

 

[pdqdl]

Is this certification for work as a feller for some employment circumstances, a requirement to work on State managed properties, or what?

Around here, the only certification you need is a saw of some sort. Even though many of my competitors are truly certifiable, I don't think they are certifiable for tree work in many cases.

Afterthought: maybe even an axe. I caught a homeowner disassembling a pine tree with a carpenters hand saw once. He was standing on a 20' extension ladder and cutting branches off right beside the 4 lane street. I told him to get off the ladder and I would come cut it down for free the next day. There are NO rules around here limiting who can cut down a tree.

 

[weimedog]

thats that dreaded this is how I was taught how dare you question my intelligence thing rearing its pointy cross eyed head...
If I think about this long enough my eyes will roll right back and I can see that booger I've been working on for 3 days...

Actually its one of those do what the customer asks or for some do what their boss requires. Doesn't matter to me, which ever is best for them or makes the most money for me. be it humboldt, GOL or something I have to innovate with. Fortunately I don't have to answer to anyone or justify much. And certainly not to some one act pony

 

[northmanlogging]

Now I happen to recall your previous thoughts on that, but given the context of the recent picture in this thread, I thought I would get your opinion on how the GOL cut affects the value of the log, especially with respect to transportation and final value of the log. That's not what I do for a living.

You still didn't answer the question!

simple, take a 32' log that pays say 750per 1k bf

now deduct 2' off the length its a 30', that now only pays 650 per mbf.
not only do you lose say 50-100bf, its now worth $100 less per 1k bf

do that to half a load you just cost yerself $500-1000

hardwood guy i assume will deduct something similar, probably on a percentage guestimated on how much is lost to the face cut
Sorry for the delay on this, I was originally writing this while waiting for a client to call me back... anyway...

 

[northmanlogging]

What a money grab.

Notice that they don't mention certifications from ISA nor any other national organization for that safety & chainsaw "certification". Except GOL, of course.

That money grab goes towards funding state sponsored health care, so all that licensing and hoopla in reality saves the state money, or so I deduce, as I'm not Kunakian... but it makes sense.

Actually its one of those do what the customer asks or for some do what their boss requires. Doesn't matter to me, which ever is best for them or makes the most money for me. be it humboldt, GOL or something I have to innovate with. Fortunately I don't have to answer to anyone or justify much. And certainly not to some one act pony

One act pony?
Again you ass-u-me a great deal about me while declaring your own ignorance and stupidity.

 

[pdqdl]

simple, take a 32' log that pays say 750per 1k bf

now deduct 2' off the length its a 30', that now only pays 650 per mbf.
not only do you lose say 50-100bf, its now worth $100 less per 1k bf

do that to half a load you just cost yerself $500-1000

hardwood guy i assume will deduct something similar, probably on a percentage guestimated on how much is lost to the face cut
Sorry for the delay on this, I was originally writing this while waiting for a client to call me back... anyway...

Unless I am mistaken, he said that the face cut only eliminated the root flare, thereby keeping the diameter unblemished from the face cut.

 

[weimedog]

Is this certification for work as a feller for some employment circumstances, a requirement to work on State managed properties, or what?

Around here, the only certification you need is a saw of some sort. Even though many of my competitors are truly certifiable, I don't think that expression is for tree work in many cases.

Afterthought: maybe even an axe. I caught a homeowner disassembling a pine tree with a carpenters hand saw once. He was standing on a 20' extension ladder and cutting branches off right beside the 4 lane street. I told him to get off the ladder and I would come cut it down for free the next day. There are NO rules around here limiting who can cut down a tree.

I'm not sure on the specifics. I don't do that "Sate Forest" work. So what I understand as "second hand info" (speculation) is to harvest state lands/forest certifications & a certain level of insurance are required. Some of the state parks want you to be certified to even do trail maintenance work. Ran into that with Snowmobile trails. As an extension of that, some of the operations who do work on those lands want the employees to be certified. Most of that "State Lands" work here is done mechanically anymore anyway. What I also know is not all the companies who work on private land require that certification for their employee's or who they sub work out to. Some do but some don't, just that the "subs" carry a minimum amount of insurance. And one of the "anomalies" for me is all the Amish loggers who sub contract out. I know they aren't insured, and doubt many are certified. Not sure how that all works either. Not a subject I can add much too.

( If some one truly is interested in the requirements for state lands and working for the ONE major company around here that does that work, I can call a few folks and report. )

 

[northmanlogging]

Unless I am mistaken, he said that the face cut only eliminated the root flare, thereby keeping the diameter unblemished from the face cut.

thats what he says not what his pics show.
The scalers are brutal, west coast, east coast, they aren't looking out of the logger, they know who pays their wages.

 

[weimedog]

Unless I am mistaken, he said that the face cut only eliminated the root flare, thereby keeping the diameter unblemished from the face cut.

exactly. one of the discussions frequently had with the buyers. Often I actually gain 8 to 10 inches with that approach vs. humboldt. But yet again why folks looking in from afar need to have experience here to understand.

 

[pdqdl]

750per 1k bf

650 per mbf.

Are you perhaps mixing up your abbreviations a bit? I'd think that second quote would be "kbf" instead of "mbf".

Can you get a "mbf" onto just one truck?

 

[northmanlogging]

I'm not sure on the specifics. I don't do that "Sate Forest" work. So what I understand as "second hand info" (speculation) is to harvest state lands/forest certifications & a certain level of insurance are required. Some of the state parks want you to be certified to even do trail maintenance work. Ran into that with Snowmobile trails. As an extension of that, some of the operations who do work on those lands want the employees to be certified. Most of that "State Lands" work here is done mechanically anymore anyway. What I also know is not all the companies who work on private land require that certification for their employee's or who they sub work out to. Some do but some don't, just that the "subs" carry a minimum amount of insurance. And one of the "anomalies" for me is all the Amish loggers who sub contract out. I know they aren't insured, and doubt many are certified. Not sure how that all works either. Not a subject I can add much too.

( If some one truly is interested in the requirements for state lands and working for the ONE major company around here that does that work, I can call a few folks and report. )

To clarify, and each state may be a little different however, to work DNR, or Forest Service ground here, you need to have $1million or better insurance, a 10k bond, and and active business license, as well as certify that you in now way are any form of exporter. But zero training or certifications
Fire crews are different of course, but thats a whole other dance I aint going to.

 

[weimedog]

thats what he says not what his pics show.
The scalers are brutal, west coast, east coast, they aren't looking out of the logger, they know who pays their wages.

And actually here you can have two or three buyers / scalers each with a different set of priorities, prolly same as you. One I use happen to also do rail road ties and mats for those large tracked cranes. They will buy grade two's where another won't even look at them. Why one vs the other? The one who doesn't buy the low grade logs pays way more for things like ash and cherry and grade favorably enough to make them a better choice. But for Maple the other grades favorably. Just have to know who to call based on the tree's you have like anywhere. And yet again over time they will tell you what they want and don't for how to cut them. Have to take their "lead" on that. I know other guys who don't have that interaction with the log buyers.

 

[weimedog]

To clarify, and each state may be a little different however, to work DNR, or Forest Service ground here, you need to have $1million or better insurance, a 10k bond, and and active business license, as well as certify that you in now way are any form of exporter. But zero training or certifications
Fire crews are different of course, but thats a whole other dance I aint going to.

So is there a difference between state and federal lands? NYS is goofy btw.