HVAC and OWB question

[FlyingDutchman]

I hope this is the right forum for this question

So, to make a long story short, I just installed a Natures Comfort NCB-250 outdoor wood boiler. It is heating my home via a water to air heat exchanger over the furnace. All the leaks are fixed, boiler is working great.

Last year, I ran my furnace on manual and just left the blower on and the hot air getting sucked into the cold air of my furnace 24/7. Had a junk indoor wood furnace. So I have "fixed" a massive problem of having to fill the furnace every two hours to keep the pipes from freezing... And thats about all it did.

Now, I have my indoor furnace blower set to auto to keep a steady temp. The blower made a loud humming noise before it started up for the last few days. Now it just sits there humming. It will go if I "help" the fan only. It turns on for 3 min, off for 3 min making a loud humming sound, almost like a welder. I helped it a couple times to start up but now its almost 2am and its obviously not going to magically start working again... So I can't sleep because I have to keep helping the blower get started.

The exhaust vent fan for the outside vent just gets hot and doesn't do anything. So far I don't think anything is a fire hazard.

Does anyone know of any tutorials on how to mesh a wood furnace properly with a propane furnace that will (hopefully) never see propane again?

Also, what the heck happened to my stupid furnace blower??? Google is all over the place, from faulty tranformers to Feng Shui.

 

[mybowtie]

Sounds like a new blower motor is in your future.

Mine died a few yrs ago when I fired the furnace up in the fall, would just hum till i helped it like u are doing. Installed a new blower the next day, and alls well.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

You need a new motor/capacitor, get one with 3-4 speeds so you can fine tune the airflow.

 

[H-Ranch]

+1 on the new motor. It has nothing to do with your OWB install, just coincidence on the timing of it's demise.

 

[WVwoodsman]

My blower motor died last winter after only 3 winters of use. It just stopped turing so I had to replace it. Make sure when you install the new one to oil it through the small holes that are on the back side. This will ensure that the bearings are lubricated. I still have the old one which I thought could be rebuilt depending on the cost.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

My blower motor died last winter after only 3 winters of use. It just stopped turing so I had to replace it. Make sure when you install the new one to oil it through the small holes that are on the back side. This will ensure that the bearings are lubricated. I still have the old one which I thought could be rebuilt depending on the cost.

Shouda lasted longer than that, mine is 10 yr. old, most motors have no access to lube, stick w/ GE, Emerson, U.S. Motor.

You get any snow up there yesterday? It bypassed us here in The Valley...

 

[WVwoodsman]

My original blower motor was a Dayton brand and so is the new one. I expected it to last longer than it did. The next time I have to replce it, I will go with your reccommendation. As for the snow, it was mainly east of I-79. Elkins and the surrounding areas were supposed to get 6 inches. I live west of I-79 and we just got rain.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Replace the motor..if the blower is not direct drive...check the bearings out .

 

[Biker Dude]

Usually if you have to help it out the start capacitor is fried but if the whole motor is within your price range then you should get the whole motor.

 

[1harlowr]

My furnace blower is on 24/7 through the winter. Keeps the entire house about the same temp, even in back rooms.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

You won't believe what this actually was.

The vent fan for the furnace is siezed up. For some reason, it would just sit there and get hot. I disconnected that... and magically the the big squirrel cage blower kicked on with ease.

The current drain from that fan being siezed up and trying to run was preventing the other one from having enough juice to get going.

I am thinking about buying a spare capacitor still though... That was a pretty scary experience, seeing the weak link in the whole system...

 

[mtfallsmikey]

You won't believe what this actually was.

The vent fan for the furnace is siezed up. For some reason, it would just sit there and get hot. I disconnected that... and magically the the big squirrel cage blower kicked on with ease.

The current drain from that fan being siezed up and trying to run was preventing the other one from having enough juice to get going.

I am thinking about buying a spare capacitor still though... That was a pretty scary experience, seeing the weak link in the whole system...

While you are acquiring spare parts....buy a spare ignitor for the furnace, you will be glad you did.

 

[greendohn]

Induction motor gave me fits about 2yrs ago, and last year it was the blower motor. Replaced the motor only on the induction unit,,saved me about 80 dollars. And the motor and capacitor on the blower unit. The induction motor is necessary for burning L.P. . I don't use L.P. to heat the house thanks to the OWB. I do, however, fire up the "L.P." side of my furnace every year to insure the ol' 90+ is still good to go. I buy my parts from the manufactures' local service shop.

 

[s219]

Modern motor capacitors have a relatively short life, since they no longer use PCBs. The motor on our HVAC system died about a year ago, at 9 years old. When I tore into the furnace, I saw that the capacitor was leaking. I replaced the cap, but the motor still did not want to run. There's no way to tell which failed first and killed the other, but I am told this is a common occurrence -- the cap can fail, and then trash the motor, or the motor can sieze and cause the cap to burst.

Anyhow, I ordered a new motor and cap from MSC, and that solved the problem. About $80 all together. The hard part was finding a motor with the proper tri-mount bracket built into it, so that it would match the squirrel cage blower on the furnace. Wasn't something I could get locally.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Well that was a false assumption... The motor quit again last night, and with help would start/stop, but now won't even make the aforesaid buzzing noise... Going to tear it down and see what I can see tomorrow. Too bad I didn't order that cap yet...

Mt. Falls Mikey... I don't use propane at this time. I spent $7k on a wood furnace because it will pay for itself in two years in propane alone.

 

[David (saltas)]

Bad news

Bronze bearings need to be soaked in oil properly and then they are good to go and go and go.

Some times this does not happen or they are new old stock and need a resoaking and don't get it.

Your bearings need a some oil, maybe they even needed pulling out of the motor and a gentle cleaning of the shaft and internal of the bronze bush.

That did not happen.

The motor was stalled and drawing six to ten times the normal running current at start up so it got hot this heat changed the impedance of the winding reducing the starting tourque and was slowly burning the winding insulation.

You could hear it humming and gave it a flick and it started and it would keep turning for a few minutes before stopping.
That was your last reasonable chance of fixing it cheap.

Continuing to run it after that you will have burnt the the start winding and now the run winding is probably burnt out too.

Electrical motors typically run C3 clearance if deep grove ball bearings and the have a wave washer at the NDE because the lenght of the shaft changes when it heats up and cools down.

A drop or two of mineral oil on a bronze bush every six months is cheap insurance.


I'm not gloating, this is my electrical opinion base on what I have read in your posts.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

David,

Blew out at least several lbs of dust at, now it seems to start up but struggles. There is bundles of copper visible inside of the motor that seems to be held together with strings and is not insulated with plastic I assume this is the burnt out start up winding?

The motor had oil galleys in the housing to the bushings, which had plenty of oil in them, but I topped it off. Someone probably installed it wrong because the oil galleys are facing down, so the oil would never be able to reach them?

 

[David (saltas)]

Dutchman the wires are insulated with a varnish which makes them slightly darker.

Up side down that wont help.

There is a smell that wee in the electrical trade call "a dark brown electrical smell" burnt windings smell.

How freely does the motor spin if you give it a flick?

As freely as a bicycle wheel?

 

[David (saltas)]

the bearings may have some grunge in them dryied up old oil

and this will not help it turn.

I assume that you are hesitant to pull it apart.

You may be able to clean out the grunge with co contact cleaner, electra clean, brake cleaner will do just don't spray it every were.
even methylated spirits will work. A pressure pack with thin tube on it will get into the oil hole better.

Use which ever solvent to get as much of the oil you just put in there out and keep turning it until it frees up, you may have to do both ends to notice a difference.

If this works wait for the motor to dry and evaporate any solvent you can use your wife's hair dryer while she is not looking

WD40 or similar is good enough to soak the bronze bushes in.

Another thing When assembling a motor some times they dont spin properly. The first trick is to loosen the bolts that hold the ends on the motor and give both ends a whack with a soft hammer (nylon,leather etc.) and then see if it spins freely. then nip the bolts up

Hope this helps

If the motor does not smell bad then you may be in luck

 

[BILLSFIREWOOD]

IS the volteg right( it the moter). Do you know your wirring is good all the way to fuse box?