I am so tired of Junk!

[woodbooga]

The manufacturers of this junk don't want it to be repairable. They want you to throw it away and buy another one from them. They are thinking about their bottom line.

I read a book a few years ago that included a history of planned obsolesence. It went something like this:

*After WWII, there was a huge amount of pent up consumer demand following the Depression and the conversion of heavy industry from civilian to materiel manufacture

*In the first few years after the war, it seemed everyone bought new electric ranges, friges, etc. - all at once. GE, Maytag, et al were happy

*But there followed lean years. Everyone who'd wanted new durable goods/white goods got them.

*White goods mfgrs. took a page out of the auto industry's playbook, introducing stylish colors and new designs.

*As a result, people replaced their appliances more frequently, long before their usefulness ended.

*Manufacturers caught on, thinking "Why should we make these goods as durable as we do since they're getting ditched before they wear out?"

*As a result, the quality fell as manufacturers began cutting corners - begining a slippery slope that brings us to where we are now.

 

[headleyj]

Headleyj, check out Mike Rowe's site and videos. It may give you encouragement.

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/2009/07/mikes-mission-video/

very inspiring. I emailed a bunch of friends with links to this.

Thank you, reps on the way.

 

[blades]

bean counters and greed

 

[headleyj]

I read a book a few years ago that included a history of planned obsolesence. It went something like this:

*After WWII, there was a huge amount of pent up consumer demand following the Depression and the conversion of heavy industry from civilian to materiel manufacture

*In the first few years after the war, it seemed everyone bought new electric ranges, friges, etc. - all at once. GE, Maytag, et al were happy

*But there followed lean years. Everyone who'd wanted new durable goods/white goods got them.

*White goods mfgrs. took a page out of the auto industry's playbook, introducing stylish colors and new designs.

*As a result, people replaced their appliances more frequently, long before their usefulness ended.

*Manufacturers caught on, thinking "Why should we make these goods as durable as we do since they're getting ditched before they wear out?"

*As a result, the quality fell as manufacturers began cutting corners - begining a slippery slope that brings us to where we are now.

I agree this is why they did it. It just takes a long time for the pendulum (sp?) to swing back the other way.

 

[TomB]

:agree2:

bean counters and greed

 

[Dalmatian90]

Woodbooga pretty much nailed it.

And don't blame just the corporate bean counters.

Look at how many people are perfectly happy with Chinese crap and buying tools at Harbor Freight. They don't care about quality, they want it cheap.

Making something to be repaired means it will cost more money new, and it will cost you money when you fix it. Lots of folks prefer buying the latest and greatest instead.

In some industries, it's about the only determining factor...like computers and even TVs at the moment -- the technology is changing so fast, it's not worth the technological obsolence to keep anything more then a few years old going.

 

[r8ingbull]

It seems like if you want something better than what the average dumbass buys at Home Depot or Ace you're going to spend weeks just trying to find it, then weeks trying to find someplace to buy it, then weeks waiting for it. It's too bad the mighy dollar rules everything and stores won't stock a quality American product because it cost 20 cents more than some made in China trash.

Ace Hardware Stores are all independently owned and operated. They only carry what the local market/shoppers are demanding. If people are only buying cheap tools do you really expect the store to carry the higher quality, more expensive tools?

Also, place of origin has no relevance to quality. You get what you pay for. I have personally witnessed the same factory in Taiwan making $89 Mongoose Bikes (junk) and $3000 name brand bikes (EXTREME QUALITY)

My rule is, dont ever buy unless one of two conditions is met...

#1...I have researched the purchase, found many favorable reviews, and am confident I am getting the best value product.

#2...I am buying the product from someone I know, and trust who will help me find the correct item for my needs. This person/business is also going to stand behind said product while I own it.

Please note that value almost never = lowest price. Value = best ratio of price to ability to meet my needs.

 

[LANNY]

Avalancher, I feel your pain. Five grown kids, two sets of ancient ones, assorted aunts and uncles,and a day care. A never ending list of broken stuff. Of course everything we own is crap,I'm just the crap family maintenance man. But it's nice to be needed. Wife's a teacher too.
Stuff is hard to work on these days, but after you eliminate the unnecessary
features, they usually work ok. It just kills me to have to repurchase things I already own, have to try to fix everything....Lanny

 

[damifino]

I am so sick of junk!
__________________
My tools of the trade
Husky 371Xp
Husky 372Xp
Husky 357Xp
Husky 455
Husky 137, for the wife. She loves that saw.....
Echo CS 305
16ft flatbed trailer with 6 ton winch
27 ton splitter, 4 way head


Now I know you are not talking about this fine list of saws.

 

[603doug]

Just spent 3 days fixing a problem on my drill rig and one of my customers made the comment that it was time to retire the "old Equipment" and buy new. My response was after six months new stuff breaks down and now I can not fix it because of all the "state of the art crap on it" plus have a payment. Come from the school if I can't fix it I must not need it. Downside all my friends bring their junk down for me to have a look at.

 

[Jkebxjunke]

Woodbooga pretty much nailed it.

And don't blame just the corporate bean counters.

Look at how many people are perfectly happy with Chinese crap and buying tools at Harbor Freight. They don't care about quality, they want it cheap.

Making something to be repaired means it will cost more money new, and it will cost you money when you fix it. Lots of folks prefer buying the latest and greatest instead.

In some industries, it's about the only determining factor...like computers and even TVs at the moment -- the technology is changing so fast, it's not worth the technological obsolence to keep anything more then a few years old going.

dont throw the HF stuff under the bus just yet.. there are some things that the cheap tools are ok... case in point.... I have 3/4 drive socket set.. I dont need one that often .. if I averaged it out it gets used about once a year... so the $49 set has served me well.. now if I were to be turning a wrench for a living.. I would have gone for the Craftsman or Snap-on ect.. sometimes the inexpensive tools are ok... sometimes you need more... BUT I will say our society is a throwaway society... look at what we have disposable everything....

 

[duane9835]

I hear ya also Avalancher i couldn't tell ya how many of the chincy wire "candle holders" i have had to re-weld in my day for the wife, mom, sis, aunts, grandmas, and all the wifes friends but i'm tired of the junk also.

At one time i was considering starting to make some of those candle holders until i found out how much the ladys are actually paying for them!!! Not worth the time!!!

We have 4 kids with lots of toys and one thing i wish i was better at is welding plastic!!!!

 

[Billy_Bob]

I've spent the last year fixing things around my house. All at once a lot of things suddenly broke! (The more toys you get, the more repairs you need!)

Luckily I can fix just about anything. Electrical/electronics, automotive, plumbing, etc.

My costs to do all these repair jobs are quite high. I don't know how people who have to hire pros manage lately?

And it used to be that I would buy something, it would last many years, then need repair when it finally wore out...

But THESE DAYS I am buying new things which don't work out of the box! I need to fix it or modify it to get it to work. Do something the factory should have done.

Anyway I'm finishing up on my last repair from my year long string of repairs. That is replacing the clutch in my car. My cost is $200. That is doing it right, had flywheel resurfaced, replaced all associated parts, etc. But I shouldn't complain about my cost. I think a shop would charge around $800-$1,200. I'll say it is worth every penny though! This project has been a royal pain - have to take apart EVERYTHING to get to the darn clutch!

 

[angelo c]

Ace Hardware Stores are all independently owned and operated. They only carry what the local market/shoppers are demanding. If people are only buying cheap tools do you really expect the store to carry the higher quality, more expensive tools?

Also, place of origin has no relevance to quality. You get what you pay for. I have personally witnessed the same factory in Taiwan making $89 Mongoose Bikes (junk) and $3000 name brand bikes (EXTREME QUALITY)

My rule is, dont ever buy unless one of two conditions is met...

#1...I have researched the purchase, found many favorable reviews, and am confident I am getting the best value product.

#2...I am buying the product from someone I know, and trust who will help me find the correct item for my needs. This person/business is also going to stand behind said product while I own it.

Please note that value almost never = lowest price. Value = best ratio of price to ability to meet my needs.

Nice first post. Welcome aboard. Rep comin at ya !!!

 

[avalancher]

Anyway I'm finishing up on my last repair from my year long string of repairs. That is replacing the clutch in my car. My cost is $200. That is doing it right, had flywheel resurfaced, replaced all associated parts, etc. But I shouldn't complain about my cost. I think a shop would charge around $800-$1,200. I'll say it is worth every penny though! This project has been a royal pain - have to take apart EVERYTHING to get to the darn clutch!

I hear you on that one.I replaced the timing belt on my PT Cruiser last year, and even invented some new cusswords.I was busy with work, and figured that it would cost me more in time off of work than to have a shop do it.Wrong answer, they wanted 1500 bucks for a timing belt replacement.figured I would take the time to do it myself.
8 hours later it was done, but it was the toughest belt that I have ever done.After the first hour I realized that it would be easier to pull the engine and replace the belt until I read in the manual that the only way the engine comes out is out the bottom!WTF!

 

[olyman]

I hear you on that one.I replaced the timing belt on my PT Cruiser last year, and even invented some new cusswords.I was busy with work, and figured that it would cost me more in time off of work than to have a shop do it.Wrong answer, they wanted 1500 bucks for a timing belt replacement.figured I would take the time to do it myself.
8 hours later it was done, but it was the toughest belt that I have ever done.After the first hour I realized that it would be easier to pull the engine and replace the belt until I read in the manual that the only way the engine comes out is out the bottom!WTF!

and along this line--used to own a 86 escort diesel. had rubber timing belt like the 2300cc mustang. knew about the 50,000 belt change----soooooo. me started in-with no book. was done about three hrs later. happened to grab the mitchell when i was done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sheeeeebang,book said--------8.9 hours!!!!! wth--then looked, said had to remove engine to do this!!!! not me--a little moving of the mtr mts, and a large pry bar, and all was well. id bet that after that first belt change, a lot of owners would have got rid of it for that reason alone..........second time i did it, took me 1.5 hrs. learning curve:greenchainsaw::greenchainsaw:

 

[avalancher]

That may work for some, but the cruiser took the cake when it came to changing that timing belt.I have changed a good many of belts for folks, but I have never seen such a cramped space as the cruiser.
I ended up taking off the intake, fuel injection manifold, battery and box, fuse assembly.All just to gain enough clearance to jack up one side of the motor to get the belt off.
Take a look

 

[Jkebxjunke]

they should make the engineers change those with normal hand tools.. and no lift like a shade tree would do it.. I bet there would be some redesigning of alot of stuff

 

[headleyj]

they should make the engineers change those with normal hand tools.. and no lift like a shade tree would do it.. I bet there would be some redesigning of alot of stuff

That's just the problem, upper mgmt sets the direction...they hammer on you for getting it done (designing) quickly and cost (driven by $)....not necessarily for the long-term end-user to service. They're focusing on the wrong thing....they're focused on the almighty $....why?? Publicly owned IMO drives this mentality quicker than wildfire.... leads to stock price, leads to more $...greed man, all greed.

Tell a quick story, then I'll hush...
Graduated Vincennes University in 98 with an AS in Architectural Drafting....got a job at the lumberyard where I worked in HS drawing houses.....saved some $, got a loan for a 91 Mustang GT 5.0 5spd...what I always wanted in HS. Of course, somethin' went awry with it so had it up on ramps in a buddy's/ dad's garage one night. Lying under there, trying to get my hands to loosen a brake line I was cussin' like a sailor at the design engineer who routed this line so prescisely over and through every single nook and cranny he could find.

It was at that excact moment I said to myself "Someone actually gets paid triple what I do to make these stupid decisions?! Hell, I can do that!"

In '99 I started all over as a Freshman at Purdue. Little did I know that I wouldn't change the world or that companies are SO focused on the $, but ignorance can be bliss....and it was then

Moral of the story is, yes Engineers should be mandated to work on whatever they design and those who have worked on things should not loose touch when designing.

Gotta laugh otherwise you'll go insane fellas. Sorry for the long post.

 

[Fronty Owner]

bean counters and greed

poor choices by the engineering department to balance manufacturability, serviceability, and reliability.and sometimes, its just dictated to you by upper management. you will do it this way.
Some of the design choices are based on how repairs are expected to be made. for liability reasons, sometimes, you dont want the average person in the equipment.
The fryer blew a 10 amp fuse, Joe Bob replaces it with a 20 amp and burns his house down. then swears up and down in court (and plays just a little dumber than he really is) he aint never had a problem out of that fryer before, it come like that. A sympathetic judge awards him a new house at the fryer manufacturer's expense. it better to epoxy the fuse in the thermostat and you just replace the whole thing.

The cruiser timing belt. there is probably 10 bolts, 15 plugs, and three hoses you disconnect and pull the whole motor out from under the car. Take a tech with the proper tools and documents about a day to do the work. On my nissan, I pulled the radiator, fans, and swiveled the AC condenser out of the way and had plenty of room. Gotta do that again in about 50K miles...

they should make the engineers change those with normal hand tools.. and no lift like a shade tree would do it.. I bet there would be some redesigning of alot of stuff

When we hired our latest engineer in the department, one of the questions my boss asked is "who changes the oil in your car?" Hiring a mechanical engineer, its a legit question. can they handle simple mechanical jobs and are they willing to get dirty to do the job?
Anytime we design new equipment, part of it is to design the tools to work on it. In our case, some items are torqued to 50,000 lb ft of torque so its not your typical hand tools.