I think I've got some American Elm...

[1project2many]

Howdy.

Great site. I've learned a bunch using it over the years. Now I'm looking for some help identifying some wood.

I picked up some logs early this spring which has been sitting outside all summer. I'm splitting it now and I need to know where to stack it. IOW, is it a dense, tough wood with higher BTU which belongs in the Dec, Jan, or Feb parts of the shed or is it better suited for the November and March rows? Here are my observations:

The bark reminds me of an old Maple with deep, wide furrows. The wood's wet. It's so wet even after sitting for 6 months in rounds that water will run out onto the ground during splitting. The growth rings are wide indicating a faster growing tree. The center of many of the logs is rotten and spongy, like a Maple can get. There is no noticeable or objectionable odor when splitting the wood. The newer wood at the outside of the tree is very pale, almost white, with a very dark heartwood that changes from brown-ish to a red tone as the wood dries. There are small marks that run counter to the grain, what I call striations, similar to what you'd find in a Maple. The wood splits easily with the splitter but it would be a biatch with a maul because the wedge has to be driven in several inches before the log will split. Once split the wood is a little stringy but not too bad. It begins to dry fairly quickly after being split. Today I burned a small piece in the outdoor burner and found a fair amount of white ash after the fire was out.

A few years ago I took down a Slippery Elm which was about 30" dbh. The tree was healthy and there was no decomposition inside the logs. Talk about a fight when it came to splitting. Sure, the splitter worked right through it but every piece had to be pushed completely over the wedge because even a small string missed felt like it it had the strength of a 2000# tow strap. This wood does not behave that way. Now, I've cut a fair amount of Slippery Elm and I always peel the bark off the logs before storing. It's not just the Elm beetles that get in there but there are a ton of other wood devouring bugs that like to live there, and there's a yellow-orange mushroom that will grow ouf of the bark as well. This log, when peeled, looked a little like the Slippery Elms but the bark didn't want to come off the log quite as easily. The slippery Elm also snapped quite a bit while burning but I didn't notice much snapping out of the mystery wood today.

I have never seen an American Elm AFAIK. Here in the Northeast most of them are gone. And if I have seen one it certainly wasn't passing across my splitting wedge. I did find some reference pictures in another thread on this site:

This is what my slippery elm looked like after splitting:

This was also posted as a picture of Elm. This might be what I have, but I can't see the fissures in the bark. But it doesn't look stringy like Slippery Elm.

Any thoughts?

 

[Biker Dude]

What you call slippery elm looks just like the American Elm I burn all the time. That second pic if it is Elm may be Red Elm but looks more like Ash. When I cut down an Elm it is usually after all the bark has fallen off of it and it has been standing dead for a couple of years or so. Even then the rounds out of the trunk are so wet that water presses out when I split them. The center of the trunk does tend to get a little punky after awhile so I'd guess you have American Elm.

 

[Dalmatian90]

There's still some American Elms around. I've seen two road side ones die over the last five years...but they sat probably 15 miles apart.

 

[3fordasho]

Plenty of american elm around here but we have lost about half of them over the years. New growth seems to get to 12-16" diameter and then die off. We have a 36"+ on the property line that seems to be doing just fine still. Sometimes I wish that one had died off years ago because now it would be a real problem if it would need to be removed. I just keep triming up my side of it so if it does go in a storm it would hopefully go toward the neighbors house/deck/sheds.... they've built up way too much under that tree

 

[Whitespider]

That stringy stuff in your first picture isn't Slippery Elm... Slippery elm and Red Elm are the same thing. That stuff in the picture could be American Elm, Siberian Elm or even Chinese Elm... hard to identify for certain from the picture. Slippery (Red) Elm is stringy when split, but nothing like those in that picture.

The second picture doesn't look like any elm I've ever cut and split... looks closer to walnut than elm, but it's a picture, hard to tell for certain. Slippery (Red) Elm has a brownish-reddish tint, not as brilliant as what that picture shows, with a much narrower outer white wood.

This is Slippery Elm.

 

[Hedgerow]

Howdy.

Great site. I've learned a bunch using it over the years. Now I'm looking for some help identifying some wood.

I picked up some logs early this spring which has been sitting outside all summer. I'm splitting it now and I need to know where to stack it. IOW, is it a dense, tough wood with higher BTU which belongs in the Dec, Jan, or Feb parts of the shed or is it better suited for the November and March rows? Here are my observations:

The bark reminds me of an old Maple with deep, wide furrows. The wood's wet. It's so wet even after sitting for 6 months in rounds that water will run out onto the ground during splitting. The growth rings are wide indicating a faster growing tree. The center of many of the logs is rotten and spongy, like a Maple can get. There is no noticeable or objectionable odor when splitting the wood. The newer wood at the outside of the tree is very pale, almost white, with a very dark heartwood that changes from brown-ish to a red tone as the wood dries. There are small marks that run counter to the grain, what I call striations, similar to what you'd find in a Maple. The wood splits easily with the splitter but it would be a biatch with a maul because the wedge has to be driven in several inches before the log will split. Once split the wood is a little stringy but not too bad. It begins to dry fairly quickly after being split. Today I burned a small piece in the outdoor burner and found a fair amount of white ash after the fire was out.

A few years ago I took down a Slippery Elm which was about 30" dbh. The tree was healthy and there was no decomposition inside the logs. Talk about a fight when it came to splitting. Sure, the splitter worked right through it but every piece had to be pushed completely over the wedge because even a small string missed felt like it it had the strength of a 2000# tow strap. This wood does not behave that way. Now, I've cut a fair amount of Slippery Elm and I always peel the bark off the logs before storing. It's not just the Elm beetles that get in there but there are a ton of other wood devouring bugs that like to live there, and there's a yellow-orange mushroom that will grow ouf of the bark as well. This log, when peeled, looked a little like the Slippery Elms but the bark didn't want to come off the log quite as easily. The slippery Elm also snapped quite a bit while burning but I didn't notice much snapping out of the mystery wood today.

I have never seen an American Elm AFAIK. Here in the Northeast most of them are gone. And if I have seen one it certainly wasn't passing across my splitting wedge. I did find some reference pictures in another thread on this site:

This is what my slippery elm looked like after splitting:

This was also posted as a picture of Elm. This might be what I have, but I can't see the fissures in the bark. But it doesn't look stringy like Slippery Elm.

Any thoughts?

Don't sound like elm... Need pics of actual stuff... Elm doesn't usually rot from the inside out. Box Elder on the other hand...:msp_sneaky:

 

[1project2many]

Well,

More digging, more splitting, more looking. Found a good picture book today, too. Mebbe even learned a few things.

Split more today. Quartered a couple of halves that had dried for a few days then found a piece that had been dead without bark for long enough to have dried. It's a different wood when dry. Very stringy though not as bad as the "other" Elm.

American Elm is the only elm that is white or blonde with a slightly darker heartwood.
The grain structure is crossed so tightly that even with an hydraulic splitter it can be a bit of work. Once it is dead, with no bark the cells degrade enough that the stringiness is lessened considerably.
American Elm degrades rather evenly and will develop blue streaks that show up in the cross cuts when its on its last leg for firewood value.
When this wood is dried while in a strong condition it makes for a wonderful firewood with a sweet odor.
The bark is the thinnest of all the elm species.

Ok, so I'm willing to say what I took down previously wasn't slippery Elm, but American Elm. I didn't pay enough attention to the leaves. The bark came off in sheets and there was this slippery, sticky, gooey layer underneath. And until today I didn't have good pictures of the bark so I couldn't see how unique Slippery Elm bark is. So I went and cut down a very large, healthy American Elm and burned it for firewood at a time when people are lamenting the loss of their beloved Elms to DED. Great. Yet another sign that I'm likely to have to make new friends in the afterlife.

Elm doesn't usually rot from the inside out. Box Elder on the other hand...

Not Box Elder. Gads, no. Stinking stuff, wood the color of a manilla folder to white with pink to red streaks, lightweight and weak. BE bark is smoother than this by far. I'm definitely leaning toward Elm.

Red Elm, in a class by itself, the heartwood is reasonably dark, like a medium brown with a gradual change in color to the darker heartwood. The bark will share the characteristic of Chinese elm in that it seems to have a delicate layer between the bark and sapwood so as to slide off during splitting.

Distinct and rapid change from lighter to darker color. Thick bark does not slide off but large pieces may be pulled off with some effort.

Snapped some pictures today.

The log on the left in the last picture is some Elm that has been dead long enough to start degrading so the stringiness is gone, but the color is nothing like the wood on the right.

Looking at pictures of bark, closest thing I can find is "Rock Elm,"

 

[Biker Dude]

Elm gets punky in the middle of the trunk if it stands dead for too long. Usually when large branches break off of standing dead ones is when they are starting to get punky in the middle. I like to cut them when the bark is off of everything but the trunk, and only 2"-3" branches are breaking off at the top.

 

[openloop]

Whatever it is... remind me as a handsplitter to turn away from any of those trees!

 

[zxcvbob]

Hackberry, perhaps? (Celtis occidentalis)

 

[8433jeff]

Hackberry, perhaps? (Celtis occidentalis)

+1

 

[openloop]

That looks like too much bark for hackberry... hackberry has very narrow ridges running vertically with wide areas of smoothish bark in between them. Or somethimes it can look like a smooth bark that has warts on it.

 

[Hedgerow]

:crazy1:

 

[8433jeff]

That looks like too much bark for hackberry... hackberry has very narrow ridges running vertically with wide areas of smoothish bark in between them. Or somethimes it can look like a smooth bark that has warts on it.

Looks like our hackberry, which does not have any warts on it. On a second or third look, is it hickory?

 

[openloop]

This is textbook hackberry around here View attachment 199937

 

[8433jeff]

This is textbook hackberry around here View attachment 199937

A picture is worth a thousand words. Warts threw me, ours (on the farm) looks a lot like your picture, not as much open space between the ridges. Wonder if the cold does that.

 

[Whitespider]

It's not Rock Elm... the wood of Rock lis almost identical to Slippery (Red) Elm.

More likely Siberian Elm.

SIBERIAN ELM

 

[Whitespider]

By-the-way... the Siberian Elm will naturally, and readily, hybridize with Slippery (Red) Elm.
The half-breed result is no better for firewood (or anything else) than plain ol' Siberian Elm.

 

[1project2many]

I think we have a winner with Siberian Elm!

Gotta love the 'net.

Type in "Siberian Elm Split" in the Gurgle images search and find this:

From this thread:
********** | Wood Stoves, Fireplace, Pellet Stoves, Gas Stoves and More - Forums!

So there it is. Prolly would have taken a long time to ID it without the help from you guys. I've never heard of this wood before, and unless I found the right guy locally chances are I would have spent years asking.

By-the-way... the Siberian Elm will naturally, and readily, hybridize with Slippery (Red) Elm.
The half-breed result is no better for firewood (or anything else) than plain ol' Siberian Elm.

I've already started treating it like a low BTU wood. I'm stacking for January right now so this stuff gets mixed sparsely with better wood. I've got large pieces of Red and White Oak, Beech, Chokecherry, and bunches of Silver and Yellow Birch to put around it. The same place that gave me this gave me some standing dead American Elm that's getting a bit weak and a fair amount of Red Maple, all better suited for the beginning and ends of the heating season or for limited mixing with better wood in the colder months.

Thanks!

 

[NDtreehugger]

I think you got it right

I cut a lot of American Elm and when split its stringggggy and the red elm splits with a crack and most of the time clean split with no string.